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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

the dza said:
Any of you sad phucks watching the Tory debate on ch4 now?

Ok, just me then.
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I like Stewart and Javid; no time for any of the rest. i don't trust Stewart to deliver Brexit though. It's a shame this isn't happening after Brexit - he'd be perfect for a getting back to the domestic agenda time.
 
the dza said:
Stewart would almost certainly mean a Labour government due to the split in the Tory vote that would happen with the Brexit Party. Tory MPs know that, which is why he won't (imo) make the last 2. Tory voters tempted to go Lib Dem would stick with them if Stewart was in charge, but they stand to lose far more to the Brexit party if they have a leader who just wants to give May's deal another whirl. They have both the polling and real world elections to go on for this, notably the recent by-election in Peterborough.

I think Johnson and Hunt will make the last two, with Johnson winning when the members vote.
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Brexit is a pig of a situation. Delivering it is nigh on impossible, and even if you do, you leave yourself open to critiscm and probably half the country won't be happy.

Why cling on. Pass the batten to Labour.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Brexit is a pig of a situation. Delivering it is nigh on impossible, and even if you do, you leave yourself open to critiscm and probably half the country won't be happy.

Why cling on. Pass the batten to Labour.
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I think under another opposition leader they might have done. Under anyone even vaguely reasonable with a fraction of an understanding of economics it could be palatable.

But Corbyn could turn the socialist ratchet so far in 4 years that there's no Brexit result that could do nearly as much damage.
 
scaramanga said:
I think under another opposition leader they might have done. Under anyone even vaguely reasonable with a fraction of an understanding of economics it could be palatable.

But Corbyn could turn the socialist ratchet so far in 4 years that there's no Brexit result that could do nearly as much damage.
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100%

The guys personal views will always drag down the views of the party

As much as we need a change with clowns like Corbyn and Abbott we would be mad to take the chance... it would like betting on a 3 legged horse on the assumption its carrying less weight
 
Ha, ha, the Tories have completely fudged everything up and all their sock puppets on here can do is play the socialist bogey card. Yeah, Boris the Clown Show will be Britain's savior... yeah... right.
 
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I dont really see either side as having friendlier press, I wonder if there is a bit of confirmation bias going on...

Personally I see no benefit to Labour over Tories, or vice versa were the roles reversed, as Bedfordspurs says - there is a complete lack of talent all across the board.

Nobody I would vote "for", pretty well all I would vote "against".
 
the dza said:
What kind of manifesto pledge would make you inclined to vote?

(I'm just asking out of curiosity, not trying to trap you in an argument or anything).
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Ha! All in good jest, I know.

Not sure, to be honest. Id want a clear view on Brexit, for sure - a believable one at that. And Id want to see a clear view on domestic matters.

Labour put forward some interesting ideas last time, but the math looked ridiculous to me and I am inherently against the idea of spending to get out of debt (yes, I know the point in spending on re-nationalisation - its all the other free money they think they can give that bothers me).

The Tories were more honest in saying we needed to tighten our belts, I respected that and its what swung it for me at the time.

Obviously Brexit is the big ticket, but Id like to see more than just "we can do a deal" to convince me to vote one way or the other.
 
the dza said:
I've previously done a fairly big post re. Abbott and the press coverage she gets compared to others, so won't repeat all that. But her maths is better (or at least, no worse) than the current Chancellor. But when he gets his figures wrong by the billion, it's kinda forgotten about.

None of the Tories in government are normal imo, they just have a friendlier press than the Labour lot. Even their own think similarly, when you get them in a candid moment:

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Their all awful

I regularly work in the same building as the Labour Party and it ranges from hipsters to a freak show at times

I should add that I’m not pro conservative, in fact I’m not pro anyone as I think their all poor but I’ve had a close proximity to the Labour Party cos of work
 
the dza said:
I've previously done a fairly big post re. Abbott and the press coverage she gets compared to others, so won't repeat all that. But her maths is better (or at least, no worse) than the current Chancellor. But when he gets his figures wrong by the billion, it's kinda forgotten about.

None of the Tories in government are normal imo, they just have a friendlier press than the Labour lot. Even their own think similarly, when you get them in a candid moment:

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I will add that the only politician I’ve seen who really got economics happened to be Gordon Brown... he got everything right money wise

Shame he sounded like he was made of cardboard but he really knew his stuff

What seems to happen to me now in politics is the same as most things of a media driven nature... those who have charisma and can present seem smarter than those who lack those skills (Blair vs Brown for example)
 
the dza said:
Not sure I agree on Brown to be honest -- I think 'light-touch' financial regulation was a big mistake, as was the expansion of PFI that began under the Tories. He is well regarded for handling the financial crisis itself though.
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Light touch was the only option at the time, although in hindsight its easy to see the red flags at the time the City was king and introducing new regulations was an easy way out of office. Very few people were concerned and the financial institutions had persuaded everyone of a new paradigm in finance. This is the reality of the matter, I am open to criticism on other matters but on this aspect there were no serious calls for more intrusive regulation.
 
parklane1 said:
To be honest i think both partys are full of self serving arseholes and i can not remember a time where the options between both the major partys have been so poor.
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Someone described it when we were in Madrid that it was like turkeys voting for Christmas and he is right In that their all as bad as each other and their remarkably similar in their mindsets and egos
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I will add that the only politician I’ve seen who really got economics happened to be Gordon Brown... he got everything right money wise

Shame he sounded like he was made of cardboard but he really knew his stuff

What seems to happen to me now in politics is the same as most things of a media driven nature... those who have charisma and can present seem smarter than those who lack those skills (Blair vs Brown for example)
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'Prudent Gordon?'..great period economically...saved eff all. Bloated the public sector, and quite clearly didn't end 'boom and bust'.
 
Tbh brown sums this country up, little fuss about raiding pensions for £5b a year but petitions and questions in the house when you take away their free TV.
Anyone with any savvy could see the crash coming, the banks were giving credit to anyone at stupid unsustainable rates.
And brown encouraged it.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I will add that the only politician I’ve seen who really got economics happened to be Gordon Brown... he got everything right money wise

Shame he sounded like he was made of cardboard but he really knew his stuff

What seems to happen to me now in politics is the same as most things of a media driven nature... those who have charisma and can present seem smarter than those who lack those skills (Blair vs Brown for example)
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He was responsible for the massive pensions grab which led to a huge rise in property prices and the advent of buy to let's being snapped up everywhere as an alternative to pensions investment, something we still haven't recovered from.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Brexit is a pig of a situation. Delivering it is nigh on impossible, and even if you do, you leave yourself open to critiscm and probably half the country won't be happy.

Why cling on. Pass the batten to Labour.
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Whoever wins the Tory election (Boris) will be relying on Labour to veto Brexit. 1. Promise Brexit to get in power 2. Rely on Labour so they don't have to deliver the impossile brexit promise 3. Hope they can navigate out the other side looking good.
 
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