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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Batspur said:
Same reason you can't commit to not bricking yourself in the next 5 years. You don't want to but who knows what will happen?
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Not a great analogy. Something might happen to make him choose to raise taxes, but it will still be a choice to do so.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I think the Southport africans were right in that Israel has committed genocide and war crimes. They are on a par with Russia in Ukraine.

Israel was attacked but it should not have wiped out pretty much a whole country.
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What were they supposed to do though?

Keep in mind that Israel was not just attacked on October 7th, they've been under almost constant rocket bombardment over the years and have been talked out of retaliation by allies including the US who helped them devise the world's most sophisticated air defence system, which constantly shoots those rockets down.

The Hamas attack demonstrate the extent to which Hamas had upgraded their capabilities and it became a threat that could no longer be ignored.

The only way of dealing with it was attacking it in a military operation.

Now Hamas are not a conventional military force, and in pretty much all ways are drawn from, interlinked with and indistinguishable from the civilian population in Gaza. This was illustrated when many of the crimes committed on Israeli soil were not committed by Hamas, but by civilians that poured into the breath created by Hamas. Hamas themselves admit this, saying that they don't hold all the hostages and do not know where they are being held in Gaza. Basically, Iran and Hamas lost control of the situation and ended up creating a situation they never intended to create.

There are no military targets in Gaza, Hamas fighters live with their families in civilian buildings. Civilians that are not part of Hamas but yet are still armed have likely taken shots at Israeli troops.

Military doctrine is that if an advancing military column comes under fire you call in airstrikes or artillery to take out the building the fire is coming from. There's videos of US and British troops doing this in Iraq and Afghanistan all over YouTube.

Everyone claimed Israel had a right to defend itself and that destroying Hamas was a legitimate aim. If you accept that you also have to accept its going to be a blood bath where the normal rules of engagement and international law do not apply.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Deal with the cause, not the consequences. Stop Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Golan by pushing them back to 1967 borders. Support Fatah in state building across both parts of Palestine.
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What about the misogynistic, homophobic sky wizard bit? It'll be a bit difficult to get past that bit by giving them your land.
 
scaramanga said:
What about the misogynistic, homophobic sky wizard bit? It'll be a bit difficult to get past that bit by giving them your land.
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Not too much different to any of the other 2 sky wizards though is he? The difficulty seems to be getting past the fact he is someone else's sky wizard and not their own.
 
SpiderSpurs said:
A man has been jailed for four-and-a-half years after a police officer's nose was broken during violent disorder in Southport.
Sean Beech, 55, of Len Cox Walk, Manchester, was captured on CCTV during the disorder in Southport on 30 July.
https://www.merseyside.police.uk/ne...-broken-during-violent-disorder-in-southport/

However...
A week earlier the Manchester Airport incident happened where police officers were assualted and still nothing...
https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/grea...ber/statement-on-manchester-airport-incident/
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TwoTierKier
 
spurspinter1 said:
I have no idea how it has come across like I agree or even condone what Scara has said, it's quite a well known gif in pop culture but even not knowing the context, nothing has indicated I was disagreeing with you or Skiprat - Just that it might not be worth your time, to be clear.

The guy is about to be hung and is asking someone else on the platform about to suffer the same fate if it'll be his first time, which indicates the original guy has somehow been hung before ie the hanging represents debating fruitlessly with Scara which i have done before. If I do say so myself it's a pretty on point use of the gif, but it seems a bit less witty if I have to explain it (my bad if you did actually get it and I have misunderstood you reiterating your stance which I can only agree with). The ballad of buster scruggs is a good watch, as a vaguely related aside!
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I took it the wrong, because of the number of smarmy posts you posted against me in the past.

And to me that come across as "my post that is utter bollox", as there was no mention of Scara... Sorry, but I am realtively new here, so I have no idiea what went on in the past between posters.

You just basically made it look like that my post was utter bollox, you should have made it a lil bit more clear.

Becaue that "first time" mem, could have been a smarmy remark about me talking bollox before.

I don't know... But appologies if I took it wrong and it wasn;t aimed at me.
 
Lost Mango said:
Not too much different to any of the other 2 sky wizards though is he? The difficulty seems to be getting past the fact he is someone else's sky wizard and not their own.
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Getting rid of all the sky wizards would be great, but there's only one that's stopping the Jews living freely wherever they want.
 
Kemi Badenoch "Perhaps he can show concern for the 1,100 people who found out yesterday that they could lose their jobs at Vauxhaul's plant in Luton"

Keir Starmer "I would remind her.. The EV mandate was introduced by the last government.. She was the Business Secretary that introduced them"

:rolleyes:
 
Kompakted said:
What were they supposed to do though?

Keep in mind that Israel was not just attacked on October 7th, they've been under almost constant rocket bombardment over the years and have been talked out of retaliation by allies including the US who helped them devise the world's most sophisticated air defence system, which constantly shoots those rockets down.

The Hamas attack demonstrate the extent to which Hamas had upgraded their capabilities and it became a threat that could no longer be ignored.

The only way of dealing with it was attacking it in a military operation.

Now Hamas are not a conventional military force, and in pretty much all ways are drawn from, interlinked with and indistinguishable from the civilian population in Gaza. This was illustrated when many of the crimes committed on Israeli soil were not committed by Hamas, but by civilians that poured into the breath created by Hamas. Hamas themselves admit this, saying that they don't hold all the hostages and do not know where they are being held in Gaza. Basically, Iran and Hamas lost control of the situation and ended up creating a situation they never intended to create.

There are no military targets in Gaza, Hamas fighters live with their families in civilian buildings. Civilians that are not part of Hamas but yet are still armed have likely taken shots at Israeli troops.

Military doctrine is that if an advancing military column comes under fire you call in airstrikes or artillery to take out the building the fire is coming from. There's videos of US and British troops doing this in Iraq and Afghanistan all over YouTube.

Everyone claimed Israel had a right to defend itself and that destroying Hamas was a legitimate aim. If you accept that you also have to accept its going to be a blood bath where the normal rules of engagement and international law do not apply.
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If combatants hide amongst civilians and do not distinguish themselves from those civilians, then any civilian casualties are entirely the fault of those using them for human shields.
 
scaramanga said:
If combatants hide amongst civilians and do not distinguish themselves from those civilians, then any civilian casualties are entirely the fault of those using them for human shields.
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Hamas do use civilians as human shields, but it's even more complex than that. Hamas are civilians with guns. There are no barracks or military bases. They're not a military force. They're drawn from and are embedded within a civilian population that is hostile to Israel.

It's a never ending doom cycle of escalation, revenge and bitterness.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I would not murder innocent civilians which will only strengthen the resolve of even moderate people in the middle east.
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You're an Israeli battalion making its way through a heavily built up area in Gaza City, looking for Hamas tunnels and infrastructure. Suddenly, your lead APC is hit by an RPG and it's track is compromised. Rifle fire erupts from a nearby apartment block as your men scramble off the main street into cover. The fire is coming from windows on the 5th floor. They've got you pinned down. Your supporting armour rolls forward as this information is relayed and fires its main gun towards the window. The shell hits and detonates blowing the window and most of the corner of the building outwards. Unsupported, the top 5 floors of the building directly above collapse downwards. 30 people have just died, including 3 fighters and 27 civilians.

How would you characterise how those civilians just died in that scenario?
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I would not murder innocent civilians which will only strengthen the resolve of even moderate people in the middle east.
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How would you end Hamas without civilian casualties?

Also, what is an acceptable proportion of casualty to combatant deaths? Would you be surprised to hear that the ratio is better in Gaza than in most wars?
 
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