Rorschach
Sonny Walters
I'll try give it a look if I get some time
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
I think you can just listen on the normal podcast providers , no real need to 'watch' it.
ie ...you can get on with other stuff at the same time
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Hahaha, great film , great reference!!!!
thfcsteff
George Hunt
The dems policy package was popular and they were not proposing any new taxes. Ignorance of these policies was the issue. They couldn't;t get the message out and often Harris policies were ascribed to Trump. It all boils down to the same thing, Dems don't have the media infrastructure that the right has and depend somewhat on MSM to get their message out. That's not going to cut it any more.
I know plenty about crypto. I dabbled at the start but it was not for me.
Edit- This is good from Joseph O'Neill if you have the time to read it. The tldr is to fight fire with fire.
All Bets Are Off | Joseph O’Neill, Daniel Drake
“The Democrats must do everything in their power and influence to oppose, slow down, and attach political costs to the Trump agenda.”www.nybooks.com
That's a top piece!
Thank you. I can't remember her name... Not sure I want to, to be honest...
In my top 5 of films ever made, along with 12 Monkeys, City of GHod, Tale of Two Sisters, and Alien.
They need to sort out how they treat men first before they do anything.
It doesn't matter what you say or do, if one entire demographic hates you... Otherwise you come across as sad and petty losers
They need drop all this indentity politics and just treat everyone like people.
The youtube vid, done by the young girls, pretty much sums it up why the lost the male vote and lost the election.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Ha. That sounded like a bit of a brush off on my part. Sorry. I will try get to it.I think you can just listen on the normal podcast providers , no real need to 'watch' it.
ie ...you can get on with other stuff at the same time
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
Don't apologise, it didn't.
Just thought I'd mention the listen only option.
I do find YouTube annoying in these 'two people chatting' scenarios as it still drags your attention to the screen, when there is literally nothing to see. Yes, maybe there's some body language or facial expression but 95% of the content is just dialogue. And time is precious...we all need to be multitasking
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Whoever said life is a marathon, not a sprint was wrong. Life is one long sprint and then you fall over and die from exhaustion.Don't apologise, it didn't.
Just thought I'd mention the listen only option.
I do find YouTube annoying in these 'two people chatting' scenarios as it still drags your attention to the screen, when there is literally nothing to see. Yes, maybe there's some body language or facial expression but 95% of the content is just dialogue. And time is precious...we all need to be multitasking
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Superb. You have to get down in the dirt and fight and they are notoriously bad at doing this.
Trump held his base (more or less the same numbers) and Harris lost too much of hers. The prevailing narrative that the dems would have done better if only they had reached out more to trump leaning voters and convinced them to change their mind is wrong IMO. The Harris campaign tried this to an extent by bringing some disaffected repubs into the tent, so to speak, and all it did was cost them more votes with their own base. The progressive vote that was there in 20 and 22 stayed away. This is the vote they need to lock in. It is a lesson they need to learn from the repubs.
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Edit Sorry miss read you post.
That video I posted in the American politics thread mentions that.
The Dems were offered a chance, they refused....
Core audience, men.
Edit: They were talking about it in January
A new global gender divide is emerging
Young men and young women’s world views are pulling apart. The consequences could be far-reaching
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It's only superb, if you know the ressons why you (Dems) lost.
Its not about reaching out...
They have to stop the hating of men. The Dems have list the plot so much, they attack AOC for backing Sanders a straight white male, so you can't support policies, you have to support gender and colour of skin.
Edit: Crap right interview, wrong video... Damn it
Like WTAF!!
You can't solve problems of you don't know what the problem is
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I spoke to a Tory party strategist after the 2015 general election. He told me that elections are all about getting "your" vote out in greater numbers than the other lot. 2024 GE is a classic example of a failure of a party to do that. Tory voters stayed at home meaning Labour and Lib Dems hoovered up hundreds of seats despite not actually increasing their voter tally from the 2019 election.
Trump made fractional gains across the board while the Democrats put their energy into trying to secure a surge in votes from women and ethnic minorities but those demographics didht turn out for them in the numbers they hoped for (I.e. enough to make a difference).
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thfcsteff
George Hunt
I think it has always been an issue for the US Dems to actually read the room of the fight they're fighting. The writing was on the wall for sometime. I'd said for years that Trump was teflon and the charges/crimes meant little to his supporter base and many others. I was concerned by her running mate - Tim Walz - because as decent a chap as he is, etc, he did. not carry young energy or spark. Their chlice of JD Vance said everything about how they operate. Here's a shameless snake and charlatan who will adopt many postures and wear any colours in his pursuit of power. He openly slagged Trump repeatedly -and not soft slaggings either- yet he ended up being his Veep pick because he fitted an optical necessity for them. They have always close broad ranks to shove their wedge over the line. Even the likes of McConnell and Graham STFU and fell back in line. There is much truth in the Biden stuff early doors for sure, BUT they still had a massive chance in that short window.
In footballing terms, I'd compare it to 2011/12, the season when Harry Redknapp was running away withe everything including a shot at the title, Crapello quit, he got a sniff of the England job and proceeded to lose focus/hitch his knickers for the post. The 5-2 goon defeat. All that. I remember going to Villa Park on the penultimate day of the season knowing that IF we won our final two games, we would finish 3rd despite ALL the fudgery of the priory two months, and guarantee CL football. Villa were brick. We went 1 down, Rose sent off, equalized, they were bricking themselves, and the substition we made instead of bringing Defoe off the bench, was Scotty Parker. I have no doubt someone can tactically explain it to me, but in the ground, at the time, there was only one player who should've been on that pitch chasing a winner. We drew 1-1, beat Fulham the next week, finished 4th blah blah...
My point is they STILL had enough time to do the right things by reading the room properly. And they didn't. I personally don't blame Harris more than the Dem machine around her...
We are where we are...:-(
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
This is right. No point chasing the few that will change their mind if it alienates your core constituency.
Yeah i think the Democrats really seem to struggle to see the wood for the trees. Obama was a brilliant communicator. Someone you just listened to whether you agreed with him politically or not. They really have to look in the mirror and have a word with themselves in terms of candidate choice since then:
- Clinton = awful.
- Biden = OK first time out but jeez - letting him run this time around? Awful.
- Harris = awful albeit they didn't have much choice.
The other thing was that they went too hard on the anti-Trump rhetoric. Everyone that hates Trump already voted for them 4 years ago. If anything the court cases and character attacks galvanised and hardened his vote.
All I can really remember as my overwhelming impression of the Democrat campaign was "don't let that nazi win". There was far too little of "this is what we've been doing and will be doing to make your lives better".
Seemed to be fought much more on personality than policy and that's clearly where Trump is far more comfortable than either Biden or Harris.
I also just want to touch on a big thing that Trump is saying which is against the grain maybe but probably struck a chord with a lot of Americans and it did with me too. Russia v Ukraine. It's the elephant in the room and nobody is really willing to talk about it in the way it needs to be talked about:
- Ukraine are NOT going to defeat Russia, even with huge western military supply.
- At best they're going to keep on doing what they're doing currently: slowly losing while inflicting heavy and painful losses on Russia.
- The question is: what is the end game here? We really need to talk about this because if we aren't willing to send our own forces in and start WW3, which we clearly aren't, then there has to be a negotiated cease fire and settlement. And I'm sorry Ukraine, realistically, you're not going to get much, if any, territory back.
- It's just reality.
- Are we, the west, going to be willing to pour billions of $ continuously into this war to keep it relativeky stalemated year after year knowing that when we eventually pull the plug, Ukraine will rapidly run out of ammo and supplies and will likely start a disorganised retreat followed by a complete collapse and surrender. Look what happened when there was just a few months delay to approving the last aid package. Part of their front line collapsed within weeks. The west right now are the boy with the finger in the dam. Temporarily feeling good about staving off Putin while also getting tired and cold and probably going to die of hypothermia in the near future.
- And when Trump asks what the point of encouraging Ukraine to keep fighting was when eastern Ukraine really is just rubble now - you have to accept he's right.
- Look at Afghanistan. We, the west, lost patience with it, pulled out and the whole thing collapsed straight away and you're left sat there thinking "what waw the point of the last 20 years?"
- Ukraine are NOT going to defeat Russia, even with huge western military supply.
- At best they're going to keep on doing what they're doing currently: slowly losing while inflicting heavy and painful losses on Russia.
- The question is: what is the end game here? We really need to talk about this because if we aren't willing to send our own forces in and start WW3, which we clearly aren't, then there has to be a negotiated cease fire and settlement. And I'm sorry Ukraine, realistically, you're not going to get much, if any, territory back.
- It's just reality.
- Are we, the west, going to be willing to pour billions of $ continuously into this war to keep it relativeky stalemated year after year knowing that when we eventually pull the plug, Ukraine will rapidly run out of ammo and supplies and will likely start a disorganised retreat followed by a complete collapse and surrender. Look what happened when there was just a few months delay to approving the last aid package. Part of their front line collapsed within weeks. The west right now are the boy with the finger in the dam. Temporarily feeling good about staving off Putin while also getting tired and cold and probably going to die of hypothermia in the near future.
- And when Trump asks what the point of encouraging Ukraine to keep fighting was when eastern Ukraine really is just rubble now - you have to accept he's right.
- Look at Afghanistan. We, the west, lost patience with it, pulled out and the whole thing collapsed straight away and you're left sat there thinking "what waw the point of the last 20 years?"
They had no chance. There was nothing they could have done to bring back the votes. Nothing
The damage had been done. I posted a video, buy a very smart young lady, who was an independant and she called it out right... The democrats lost the men...
I will post it again.
You only have to see how patranising and condescending they were, the hate towards men within social media.
I just can't explain enough, how dangerous it is ignore this and Trump won because of it. No one, is going to listen to a word you say, if they hate you, because you have spent year after year, insulting and treating half of the population like scum. Then endless articles of how its all mens fault, men are evil, it's all their fault, in magazines, newspapers, afternoon chat shows hosted by women calling men lazy and useless every other week... And then add, all the "woke", for lack of better term, that called everyone a phobe, an ist, bigot, facist, Nazi....
No one on the planet is going to give a flying ^*$%* what you have to say (Not, you, referring political parties)
The democrats, could have run the best campaign ever, had some great policies, and they still wouldn't won. The answer is so simple why they lost, and they will continue to lose until they drop all this insane BS, they are shoving down everyone's throat, in everything.
I really, do honestly wish it was something that like a bad campaign, something they could do better, lessons to learn from. But that just simply wasn't the case....
This was Biden's speach before he got swarn in and made president. He stood on a platform to bring a divided country back together again... Then made this speech that he was prioritising blacks, latino's, asians and native Americans...
Why not just say we will prioritise people not becasue of the colour of their skin, or their gender, but simply because they needed the help first. But no, the first thing you do in a massively divided country, is divide it even more.... They hated white men, they played identity politics and they got slaughtered for it.
Don't get me wrong, I dont think you are incorrect and what you said is relavant and that is probably how the Dems will see it. Tim Walz wasn't the problem...
How patranising, insulting, do you have to be have a policy called “Hombres con Harris”, how did that turn out?
The democrats, lost the election before he got sworn...
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Too many people making too much money to be worried about unimportant stuff like lives or suffering.
