Political Issues

[Danishfurniturelover]

F uck me

F uck this

Give me your address then alfred, that is if you think your leg is up to it.

One way to get back at the indians would be to put a tax on money going out of the country, thousands of them still want to come here to earn money and send it home.

 

[Midfield Maestro]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...Debt-crisis-and-Greek-bail-out-deal-live.html


Greeks have been bailed out with ?ú108 Billion pounds, phewww big sigh of relief from Europe!

 

[monkeybarry]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...Debt-crisis-and-Greek-bail-out-deal-live.html


Greeks have been bailed out with ?ú108 Billion pounds, phewww big sigh of relief from Europe!

Looks like its handouts all round today - how about the kids that got average grades but are trying to make it? Sorry, you wernt brilliant - go and stand in the job queue.

Sorry, you wernt enough of a drop out and fudge up for us to help - slap on the wrist for trying.

Go and stand in the jobless queue

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17104998

 

[papaspur]

Looks like its handouts all round today - how about the kids that got average grades but are trying to make it? Sorry, you wernt brilliant - go and stand in the job queue.

Sorry, you wernt enough of a drop out and fudge up for us to help - slap on the wrist for trying.

Go and stand in the jobless queue

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17104998

This poses a good question that a lot of threads have touched upon recently. What do we do with all the degenerates who didn't prioritize education for whatever reason? On top of that, it's not simply the lazy, but there are plenty of people with below-average IQs that don't have many job opportunities available to them.


See if Australia will take them?

 

[monkeybarry]

This poses a good question that a lot of threads have touched upon recently. What do we do with all the degenerates who didn't prioritize education for whatever reason? On top of that, it's not simply the lazy, but there are plenty of people with below-average IQs that don't have many job opportunities available to them.


See if Australia will take them?

anyone that didnt prioritise, for whatever reason, starts from where they are

the flip question has to be asked - why should the one that didnt prioritise be elevated to a level greater than those that prioritised "a bit"?

its back to rewarding laziness - the message it sends out is, "if you are not excellent, just dont try at all - we'll make sure its all taken care of for you"

 

[papaspur]

anyone that didnt prioritise, for whatever reason, starts from where they are

the flip question has to be asked - why should the one that didnt prioritise be elevated to a level greater than those that prioritised "a bit"?

its back to rewarding laziness - the message it sends out is, "if you are not excellent, just dont try at all - we'll make sure its all taken care of for you"

I agree with you here in that this program seems to reward abject bricktiness over mediocrity. However, the fact is that many jobs now require some form of training and intelligence. Clearly, some people don't fall into this job structure for whatever reason. However, if these people aren't incorporated into the work force (and many likely won't even if there were ample job opportunities), what do they resort to? Prison might be a better environment than wherever they might currently be stationed, trying to scrounge up enough food and clothing to get by. And of course, these types of people have boatloads of kids, further fudging over the society they live in. It's not like there's a half-way prison/Gulag that you could send them to, where they're forced into paid manual labor. I honestly don't know what a good solution is in this instance, aside from the old letting natural selection run its course.

 

[monkeybarry]

I agree with you here in that this program seems to reward abject bricktiness over mediocrity. However, the fact is that many jobs now require some form of training and intelligence. Clearly, some people don't fall into this job structure for whatever reason. However, if these people aren't incorporated into the work force (and many likely won't even if there were ample job opportunities), what do they resort to? Prison might be a better environment than wherever they might currently be stationed, trying to scrounge up enough food and clothing to get by. And of course, these types of people have boatloads of kids, further fudging over the society they live in. It's not like there's a half-way prison/Gulag that you could send them to, where they're forced into paid manual labor. I honestly don't know what a good solution is in this instance, aside from the old letting natural selection run its course.

no issue with getting people working and society moving - but not to the detriment of "the innocent" (i use that loosely!!)

 

[scaramanga]

I agree with you here in that this program seems to reward abject bricktiness over mediocrity. However, the fact is that many jobs now require some form of training and intelligence. Clearly, some people don't fall into this job structure for whatever reason. However, if these people aren't incorporated into the work force (and many likely won't even if there were ample job opportunities), what do they resort to? Prison might be a better environment than wherever they might currently be stationed, trying to scrounge up enough food and clothing to get by. And of course, these types of people have boatloads of kids, further fudging over the society they live in. It's not like there's a half-way prison/Gulag that you could send them to, where they're forced into paid manual labor. I honestly don't know what a good solution is in this instance, aside from the old letting natural selection run its course.

I've mentioned it in the other thread, but the answer is the old grammar school system (with some tweaks to the entrance methods).

Naturally academic types (regardless of money or background) were able to be educated in suitable environments with like-minded students. Those who were not went and learned a trade/skill - the kind of thing that's been lacking in this country since successive governments decided to try and squeeze everyone into university.

 

[Leeds Spur]

The whole thing for me about Greece is they are rioting in the streets DEMANDING more of OTHER PEOPLES MONEY!!

If we tell them to fudge off they will be in the bin!!

 

[monkeybarry]

I've mentioned it in the other thread, but the answer is the old grammar school system (with some tweaks to the entrance methods).

Naturally academic types (regardless of money or background) were able to be educated in suitable environments with like-minded students. Those who were not went and learned a trade/skill - the kind of thing that's been lacking in this country since successive governments decided to try and squeeze everyone into university.

im only 29 so dont fully appreciate the grammer school system (only the theory) - but it seems like Labour tried to use University Degree as some kind of pseudo grammer school equivalent

im in favour of a similar system - but not seperate schools, combine them within one school so it allows for integration (up or down) as pupils grow up, otherwise you get a situation whereby if you havnt grasped something at 12 you are less advantaged that someone that did

some kids grow and develop when they hit secondary school - i remember being like that with maths. hopeless at primary school, but good at secondary school and then continually developed in adulthood. that probably wouldnt have happened if i had been placed in the "lower maths groups" (as per primary school results)

 

[papaspur]

I've mentioned it in the other thread, but the answer is the old grammar school system (with some tweaks to the entrance methods).

Naturally academic types (regardless of money or background) were able to be educated in suitable environments with like-minded students. Those who were not went and learned a trade/skill - the kind of thing that's been lacking in this country since successive governments decided to try and squeeze everyone into university.

Sorry scaramanga, I saw your reply in the other thread and I wasn't really sure how education differs (or is similar to) in the UK from the US. I feel like a lot of trades are dying, but there will always be a need for electricians/carpenters/plumbers. For example, I work in a machine shop. We used to have tons of machinists and mold-makers in here doing a lot of skilled manual work. With the advent of CNC machining, a lot of that work is better done by a machine, which requires an even more skilled programmer. I guess the trade-off is someone with a higher education and more training replacing a few skilled machinists. Of course, the machine can do an infinitely better job and perform more complex operations, but this trend has affected many industries.

The other point I'd like to make is the difference between Eastern and Western education. Why is it that many Asian countries value education far more than their Western counterparts? The proof for all this is in standardized tests given to students in various countries and students in China vastly outperform those in the US. In fact, the US has a pretty low standard of education, unless of course the parents can afford a private education.

And of course, the problem with universities is that their tuition keeps getting inflated each year despite the value of a degree decreasing. What use is a degree if you can't even find a job with it? On the other hand, students have been getting lazier (in the US) and grade inflation is likely to occur at many universities. Higher education is its own bubble, but I honestly don't know what value I could put on my degree. Surely it's not the cost of my total tuition.

 

[Baleforce]

Dead thread redemption.

Reshuffle is a cluster**** IMO, the chief whip should have either respect or fear of the party (ideally both), you shouldn't post a quoted homophobe at all, let alone that near the front, and most of all, Hague is the smartest man in the commons by a million miles (and they backbenched number two), they should have offered him whatever he wanted to stay, begged him even, I'd always assumed he'd return as PM one day, it's a massive loss for this country.

Miliband must be smirking his head off.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Dead thread redemption.

Reshuffle is a cluster**** IMO, the chief whip should have either respect or fear of the party (ideally both), you shouldn't post a quoted homophobe at all, let alone that near the front, and most of all, Hague is the smartest man in the commons by a million miles (and they backbenched number two), they should have offered him whatever he wanted to stay, begged him even, I'd always assumed he'd return as PM one day, it's a massive loss for this country.

Miliband must be smirking his head off.

Hague and Clarke both being booted from the halls at the same time is a bit of an own goal, agreed. Both seemed like competent, stolidly reliable cornerstones of the Tory front bench, and despite understanding why Hague was pushed out of the cabinet (he was going to retire come the next elections anyway, so there wasn't much by way of political capital at stake when it came to replacing him with someone more appealing to the voters in ten months' time), I'm a bit apprehensive about the chances of this reshuffle actually improving Cameron's chances come 2015. And although Gove was booted (a badly needed move, imo: man became both far too full of himself and far too toxic in the public eye), IDS still remains, which won't help improve the ratings much given his own incompetence and political odiousness. Overall, a couple of steps forward, but three steps back for the Tories.

Miliband can take advantage of this, yes, but he won't: he's thoroughly disappointing when it comes to seizing the initiative and picking up on Tory errors. A more instinctive, more dynamic Labour leader would have had them in a comfortable poll lead by now: it's a shame that all Labour can muster is Miliband plus his entirely uninspiring shadow cabinet. A genuine shame, given that I actually do lean to the political left and would like a more robust option to present itself on the more socially responsible spectrum of British politics, but for now, the left is mostly dead, imo. What worries me is that the space vacated by Labour in the public eye is being filled not by the Tories (a somewhat palatable alternative), but by the likes of UKIP, a frightening proposition to be sure.

 

[Richie]

Gove moving as chief whip may supposedly be something to do with having a loyal Osbourne supporter in the Whips office if the Tories lose the election and need a new leader.

Honestly, I can't think of any bigger own goal if Cameron leaves than giving Osbourne the leadership. The Conservative Party need someone without a trust fund to lead them forward, having posh boys like Osbourne and Cameron leading the party is such easy ammunition for Labour.

The irony is that a number of the Labour front bench were just as privileged as the Tories, Harriet Harman and Ed Balls went to fee paying schools and let's not pretend "comprehensive-school educated" Ed Miliband was raised on a council estate.

I actually quite like Cameron and find it a bit silly to hold a persons educational background against them, but it's perception that counts in politics and the Conservative Party need to go in a different direction post-Cameron if they are to change that perception.

You know what's a good start? The promotion of Stephen Crabb. Born and raised on a council estate in Wales by his single mother, the Tories need more diverse backgrounds in prominent positions to improve their image.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Gove moving as chief whip may supposedly be something to do with having a loyal Osbourne supporter in the Whips office if the Tories lose the election and need a new leader.

Honestly, I can't think of any bigger own goal if Cameron leaves than giving Osbourne the leadership. The Conservative Party need someone without a trust fund to lead them forward, having posh boys like Osbourne and Cameron leading the party is such easy ammunition for Labour.

The irony is that a number of the Labour front bench were just as privileged as the Tories, Harriet Harman and Ed Balls went to fee paying schools and let's not pretend "comprehensive-school educated" Ed Miliband was raised on a council estate.

I actually quite like Cameron and find it a bit silly to hold a persons educational background against them, but it's perception that counts in politics and the Conservative Party need to go in a different direction post-Cameron if they are to change that perception.

You know what's a good start? The promotion of Stephen Crabb. Born and raised on a council estate in Wales by his single mother, the Tories need more diverse backgrounds in prominent positions to improve their image.

Truer words than those are difficult to come by. I squirm a little every time someone on the left refers to the Tories as the 'posh' party given Labour's own proclivities in that regard, but yes, the ability to criticise the Conservatives on this particular trait of theirs is there and will be used in 2015. However, I hear Liam Fox may be angling for another leadership challenge should the Tories lose in ten months' time: indeed, I think he was offered the post of a minister in the Foreign Office yesterday, but turned it down so he could apparently speak freely on governmental matters. Surely, if Fox is keen, his background would make him a half-decent candidate? State-educated, lived in a council house....if you ignore the political damage he suffered from the Werrity affair and his expenses claims, he seems like he could fit your bill.

Personally I'm just hoping Miliband balances what will hopefully be a fierce attack campaign against the Conservatives with the pressing need to keep UKIP in the single figures poll-wise: thankfully they've dropped back down there over the past couple of days, but Hammond replacing Hague shows that the Tories still seem quite unstable when it comes to sticking with their right-centrist, EU-inclusive plank.