JerusalemMan
Chris Perry
I do enjoy many of your posts Dubai and applaud your commitment to calm, stated argument.
Even if I don't wholly stand in your camp.
Even if I don't wholly stand in your camp.
-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
Paul Mitchell - Head of Recruitment and Analysis
- Thread starter LutonSpurs
- Start date
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
Well....yeah. Apart from the red bit. 3 trophies a year means we'd surpass the Arse in about a decade, after all. And reduced prices means that all the poor people currently shut out of Premier League footie can finally go see their team again.
So, what exactly am I meant to chuckle along about?
I don't know what makes you laugh, but the attitude of certain fans who blame any little thing which they dislike on Levy and Lewis make me chuckle. It's like kids who see all their mates have new toys and designer clothes and blame their parents because they don't have them. It doesn't matter that they try to secure the future, spend today don't worry about tomorrow. The club is going to be run on a tight budget, thats a fact of life all the moaning in the world is not going to change that. If Mitchell did leave because of Levy not signing Batshuayi and paying him £125k a week to be second choice striker, I don't think he's much of a loss as he appears to have no business sense. Paying that sort of wages wiould have a massive impact on what everyone else at the club would want.
RunTMC
Steven Caulker
@DubaiSpur just so I understand your point are you saying that Levy should have backed Mitchell and paid the fee and the wages reported for Batshuayi?
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
No I obviously did not put it clearly, but I think there are many that do, as they have no idea of the financial implications. I said it made bad business sense in terms of finance and possibly team morale. Of course if Mitchell was told we would sign whoever he proposed no matter the cost he was right to resign as Levy would appear to have gone back on his word, but I can't see that being the situation.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
RunTMC
Steven Caulker
No worries, mate
Kenyan Spur
Peter Taylor
@Dubai Spur. Who is this Collomosse guy you keep referring to.
Is he some kind of ITK or insider at Spurs, that we should respect.
If not what is his opinion worth ?
Is he some kind of ITK or insider at Spurs, that we should respect.
If not what is his opinion worth ?
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Oh, GHod, if I thought I could actually change Levy's mind by arguing here, you'd see me be a lot more hysterical, a lot more often (if that's even possible)
. At the moment, our wages to turnover ratio's probably the lowest it's been in the past decade - the last set of accounts still had Ade and co. on the books, all of whom have now left without being replaced by players of an equivalent profile. Forgive me if I don't think that stretching a little would kill us, especially if the likes of Eriksen are apparently asking for 150k a week anyway. Plus, you will never, ever see me complain about owners who genuinely subsidise tickets for poorer fans - that they've been left behind amidst the ongoing gentrification of the league is something I'll never feel is okay, and whatever the faults of City's sheikh and his wider family (and having lived in the UAE, I know a bit about 'em), that's one way of spending his oil wealth that I won't criticize.He's a journo. He's occasionally broken some news about us that turned out to be true, iirc, but I wouldn't say he was especially ITK about Spurs any more than the next Journo on the Hotspur Way beat. What I will say is that his article is the most recent piece of news we have about the Mitchell situation, and dismissing it out of hand doesn't strike me as particularly useful.
Can't ask for more than that, mate.
If that's what led to his schism (which I keep maintaining is still an 'if'), then yeah, if (specifically) Poch wanted that as well. I don't think Mitchell with his black box that everyone was praising for picking out unknown gems would be one to play fast and loose with the necessity of signing players unless he genuinely felt they'd be good for the club and the team, without being too much of a financial burden.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
Oh, GHod, if I thought I could actually change Levy's mind by arguing here, you'd see me be a lot more hysterical, a lot more often (if that's even possible)
He's a journo. He's occasionally broken some news about us that turned out to be true, iirc, but I wouldn't say he was especially ITK about Spurs any more than the next Journo on the Hotspur Way beat. What I will say is that his article is the most recent piece of news we have about the Mitchell situation, and dismissing it out of hand doesn't strike me as particularly useful.
Can't ask for more than that, mate.
If that's what led to his schism (which I keep maintaining is still an 'if'), then yeah, if (specifically) Poch wanted that as well. I don't think Mitchell with his black box that everyone was praising for picking out unknown gems would be one to play fast and loose with the necessity of signing players unless he genuinely felt they'd be good for the club and the team, without being too much of a financial burden.
So nothing new here your prepared to give Mitchell the benefit of the doubt, but Levy is still to blame. Just take a leaf out of my book post "Levy is to blame" on all your missives save us all time.
indospurs
Young-Pyo Lee
and post on 'Dear Mr. Levy', Spooky'll appreciate it
metalgear
Luka Modric
poch said in the pre match interview that mitchell made a personal decision to leave and that he was disappointed with it. he also said that mitchell and him are working through this transfer window so it isn't that bad.
it could be levy, but it could be mitchell himself - who knows?...
it could be levy, but it could be mitchell himself - who knows?...
RunTMC
Steven Caulker
The thing I like about you Dubai, is that you always present your arguments clearly and back them up with logic and evidence. And you don’t resort to emotional outbursts that others are sometimes prone to on here.
I tend to disagree with most of your views but still appreciate them as they give me food for thought.
Now regarding this situation I’d like to present a couple of alternatives.
Your argument as far as I understand it, goes as follows:
· Poch is disappointed with Paul Mitchell’s (PM) decision (see OR2 below)
· Therefore, he values his work and the players he recommends
· Therefore, the article regarding Batshuayi suggests that Levy has not backed PM/Poch
· Therefore, Levy is (potentially) at fault for this mess
Occam’s Razor 1: PM is simply leaving because there is a better opportunity at LCFC
Occam’s Razor 2:
- PM: “Poch, Levy didn’t back us with Batshuayi. I’m off!! No respeck, ya feel me!”
- Poch: “Seriously? You’re leaving because of that??”
- PM: “Yep.”
- Poch: “This is Levy were talking about. You know him. It shouldn’t be a surprise he won’t sign off on £35m and £125k p/w.”
- PM: “Michy would have provided the goals to fire us to the promised land.”
- Poch: “I liked him too but if you’re leaving because of that then I’m very disappointed with your decision. Is there another reason you’re going?”
The point I’m trying to make is that it most likely doesn’t have anything to do with Levy as the reason that PM is leaving. Or that PM is using Levy, unrealistically, as the reason he’s leaving.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
We charge prices out of proportion to our standing - people pay them. It gives us a leg up on equivalent clubs with equivalent fan catchment areas and infrastructure, and when combined with our advantage in terms of location (i.e, London vs Liverpool and elsewhere) allows us to both spend more than our comparable rivals (here I'm talking Everton and equivalent clubs) and remain more of an attractive proposition for better players than those clubs. We face revenue constraints despite this that put us behind United, City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea in the pecking order - we usually finish above at least one of that lot. But our revenues also dwarf those of comparable clubs - in 2015, they stood at roughly £196m, which put us £67m ahead of the next club in the list, namely Saudi Sportswashing Machine with £129m. Saudi Sportswashing Machine's gap with us (a little over 50% of their turnover) roughly parallels our gap with Liverpool above us - in that sense, we have overachieved slightly by finishing one place higher than we should, usually above Liverpool. I don't deny that. However.....
...there have been better examples of club management. You were involved in a discussion to that effect a few months ago, although you didn't reply to my grandiose posts on the subject but more generally.
http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/community/threads/daniel-levy-chairman.532/page-64#post-801846
...point being, them being richer than us is what we see *after* those chairmen worked their magic. The situations they were in when they took over were equal to, and in most cases worse than the one we find ourselves in now. No one denies that we compete at a disadvantage (although I think that's to an extent self-inflicted, but that's a discussion for another time). But that just makes it even more imperative to take opportunities when they come.
So I think you are saying that we are agreed that we are outperforming our comparable rivals and at least outperforming at least one of the larger clubs. Not a bad deal then eh?
With regards to the other clubs, you are ignoring the fact that all of your examples are overseas. They don't have 5 clubs bigger than them that they are competing against, and so you're not comparing apples with apples. Juventus has always been a massive club, and despite falling down 2 or 3 divisions were able to keep players like Del Piero. their success in recent years is as much to do with both Milan clubs refusing to spend big, and with them being the only ones generating that size of revenue, it is no wonder that they would be at the top of their league. Borussia is an impressive story, but they only really had Bayern to compete with. Even now are they really pushing Bayern all the way? Put 4 other Bayern's ahead of them and see how well they would do.
Borussia Dortmund is an interesting example. How have they really achieved the success? Bigger stadium, better training facilities, concentration on youth. Familiar story I think!
OK, let's take that as read. It's a stupid reason to leave. We are assuming that he has turned Levy off, which he hasn't. He's just resigning. And, by Collomosse's account, resigning over not signing a player that he really rated. Well, you don't always get the targets that you want. We always run the risk of being outbid by Chelsea. If he's annoyed that we didn't move last season, why resign now? If he's annoyed about losing out this season, well how can we compete with Chelsea. If Mitchell is complaining about not spending £30m on a player that would not be guaranteed a starting place and is hardly "guaranteed", then all that shows is that he is not the right person for us as a club. Levy is not to blame.
Janssen is signed from a weaker league, but is actually playing in the first team for the international. My comparison was to compare both players at the same point in time i.e. the Bat of a year ago. Bat's worth is £30m. We paid almost half that for Janssen, so should they be comparable now?
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Well, Mitchell's only been here a year, and hasn't done anything one could call 'typical'. Levy's been here for almost the entirety of my time supporting Spurs, and has done many things I would class as 'typical'. This, when something occurs that matches what could be considered 'typical' stuff from Danny, that's what it tends to be described as. That's fairly elementary, as far as giving the benefit of the doubt to someone goes.
Not like Levy doesn't get atypical from time to time - hell, not like I don't cheer when he does, and publicly declare a hope for more of the same (mostly with regard to transfer windows). Sadly, those instances tend to be isolated occurrences that fade away amidst a general trend that I usually disapprove of.
Well, how about Occam's Razor 3 - Mitchell's leaving because Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha's promised to back him over the likes of Batshuayi, and equivalent guarantees couldn't be found from Levy. Would that not have something to do with Levy?
I don't think we're outperforming comparable rivals, because we don't have any - we're in a league of our own thanks to our revenue and our location that puts a distance between us and our nearest lower rival that is every bit as daunting as the distance between us and the nearest team above us. We sometimes outperform the teams above us, that's true. How good a deal that is depends on how many opportunities you think are acceptable to miss while pursuing that trend.
Also, again, you're confusing the present state of affairs with the state of affairs present back when Watzke, Agnelli and co. got stuck in. When Juve re-entered Serie A in 2007, their turnover was reported as being roughly 145 million euros - AC Milan had 227 million euros for that year, and Inter roughly 200 million euros, give or take a few. Roma's turnover exceeded Juve's by roughly 12.5 million euros. The years since have seen them build a new stadium and win title after title, becoming the dominant revenue-generating machine we see today and wrecking the dominance of the Milan clubs who (if you'll recall) actually enjoyed enormous periods of success during the period going from 2007 to 2011. When Watzke took over in 2001, Dortmund were on the verge of a precipitous decline that saw them ultimately borrowing money from Bayern to keep the lights on at the Westfalenstadion during their financial nadir in 2005. The period during which they became wildly successful, however, was not by any means just a matter of them against Bayern - again, that's a view seemingly informed by Bayern's *present* situation. The five-year period in the build-up to their win in 2010-2011 saw four different title winners in Stuttgart, Werder, Wolfsburg and Bayern - additionally, Schalke were going through a phase which saw them regularly compete for the title and qualify for the CL. In terms of diversity and success against multiple opponents, that's as much a marker of success as any (non-existent) Spurs title win would be. Lyon and the rest, I won't even begin with - Lyon were a provincial club in Ligue 2 when Aulas bought them. Forget one or two teams above them, Lyon had the entirety of Ligue 1 above them, and deservedly so. Aulas turned them into a winning machine in the 2000's, and that colours perceptions of his accomplishment.
Well, the same arguments were made about why AVB resigned, why Harry's 2012 failure was his own, why Ramos' post sacking comments were out of order and so on. Again, I have comparably little sympathy with Mitchell if he really thought he'd have his way with Levy when many other people have tried and failed to do the same. But, sooner or later, perhaps some value will be perceived in examining why this claim of 'lack of backing' persists across managers and staff alike.
I'm sorry, I don't get you. Could you rephrase that a bit? As far as I can see, Batshuayi played for Belgium too - still does, in fact, and made it into the squad for the Euros, although obviously that's not something Janssen could have done.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Might I present Gillette Mach 4 Razorbill with lubricating strip ?
Mitchell: We can get this Batshuayi for 20 mill euros if we act NOW! A SNIP! He is THE MAN!
Levy: Well, I need to see what MP thinks first, though be warned it might turn into 'deal-fest'...
Poch: Paul, love your work, but you know the other guy you told me about, Janssen? I think for the money versus the personality versus regular games versus squad member versus overall 'fit' and the fact he is absolutely moldable like modeling clay, I think we go for him instead.
Mitchell: Hang on, I am Head of Recruitment!
Levy: Yes Pauzza, but MP DID sign a new contract in which it stated he is Head of ALL Football matters!
Poch: Yes, indeed Pauzza my loyal flower, I love you like a brother and think it was a great thing Adkins left behind, a GIFT if you will, but on this one I am sorry, I want Vincent more and we cannot 'ave them both so sorry.
Mitchell: fudge this for a game of soldiers! I want full control!
Poch: Pauzza my darling, we will work through this, although why you want to be dealing Njie out so quickly for Nkoudou, who I do like for sure, but again, we have to respect the model we signed up for at this club; you know old DL. A bit weird when you let him loose at Harrods, thinks it's a Moroccan bazaar!
Mitchell: Well far THAT Maury, I might have to cash my chips in!
Poch: I hope not Pauzza my sweetness, it will disappoint me...
Mitchell: (They have no idea I am moving to the PREMIER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS where I can have TOTAL CONTROL...)
Here endeth the latest potential 'shave'...
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Might I present Gillette Mach 4 Razorbill with lubricating strip ?
Mitchell: We can get this Batshuayi for 20 mill euros if we act NOW! A SNIP! He is THE MAN!
Levy: Well, I need to see what MP thinks first, though be warned it might turn into 'deal-fest'...
Poch: Paul, love your work, but you know the other guy you told me about, Janssen? I think for the money versus the personality versus regular games versus squad member versus overall 'fit' and the fact he is absolutely moldable like modeling clay, I think we go for him instead.
Mitchell: Hang on, I am Head of Recruitment!
Levy: Yes Pauzza, but MP DID sign a new contract in which it stated he is Head of ALL Football matters!
Poch: Yes, indeed Pauzza my loyal flower, I love you like a brother and think it was a great thing Adkins left behind, a GIFT if you will, but on this one I am sorry, I want Vincent more and we cannot 'ave them both so sorry.
Mitchell: fudge this for a game of soldiers! I want full control!
Poch: Pauzza my darling, we will work through this, although why you want to be dealing Njie out so quickly for Nkoudou, who I do like for sure, but again, we have to respect the model we signed up for at this club; you know old DL. A bit weird when you let him loose at Harrods, thinks it's a Moroccan bazaar!
Mitchell: Well far THAT Maury, I might have to cash my chips in!
Poch: I hope not Pauzza my sweetness, it will disappoint me...
Mitchell: (They have no idea I am moving to the PREMIER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS where I can have TOTAL CONTROL...)
Here endeth the latest potential 'shave'...
I'm chuckling too much at that to come up with a rational response, tbh.
I'll just mention that, if Poch ultimately wanted Janssen over Bats, I have no problem with that - hell, if that's what happened then I'd probably want Mitchell to go as well, since the manager is the boss here, as far as I'm concerned.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I'm chuckling too much at that to come up with a rational response, tbh.
Fair play mate, I sort of went off on a wander there anyway
Denmark Spur
Michael Carrick
Tottenham won’t replace head of recruitment as Pochettino wants ‘greater control’ (The Times)
More say in transfers
Tottenham Hotspur will not replace their Head of Recruitment and Analysis when he leaves the club in December,The Times have revealed.
Paul Mitchell handed in his notice to leave last august.
Mitchell joined Spurs from Southamtpon in November 2014 and was appointed by former Director of Football Franco Baldini following his departure.
The reason that Spurs won’t be directly hiring a replacement for Mitchell is that manager Mauricio Pochettino wants a greater say on transfers in the future.
Hands on
Chairman Daniel Levy is unlikely to overrule Pochettino’s decision as his side remain the only unbeaten in team in the Premier League.
Levy himself prefers a very hands on approach when dealing with new signings. Between the two of them, transfers are to be negotiated without a new director of football.
http://www.101greatgoals.com/news/t...-pochettino-wants-greater-control-the-times/?
More say in transfers
Tottenham Hotspur will not replace their Head of Recruitment and Analysis when he leaves the club in December,The Times have revealed.
Paul Mitchell handed in his notice to leave last august.
Mitchell joined Spurs from Southamtpon in November 2014 and was appointed by former Director of Football Franco Baldini following his departure.
The reason that Spurs won’t be directly hiring a replacement for Mitchell is that manager Mauricio Pochettino wants a greater say on transfers in the future.
Hands on
Chairman Daniel Levy is unlikely to overrule Pochettino’s decision as his side remain the only unbeaten in team in the Premier League.
Levy himself prefers a very hands on approach when dealing with new signings. Between the two of them, transfers are to be negotiated without a new director of football.
http://www.101greatgoals.com/news/t...-pochettino-wants-greater-control-the-times/?
