Our scouting network

[Danishfurniturelover]

Which managers truly have the freedom to sign whoever they want? Wenger. Martinez, but Everton have no money. Even if Rodgers have final say at Liverpool, they have been much more careful about how much they spend on individual targets since his appointment. Chelsea, City, Southampton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, WBA, Sunderland all have a DoF or similar. It's the bottom half clubs that let their managers spend freely and get nowhere because they turn over their entire squad every 2 or 3 years at massive cost, with the previous manager's signings now having little to no value despite costing a fortune when bought.

The idea that a manager should run everything at a club is outdated and quite frankly counter productive. It's impossible for one man to everything and do it well. Even Ferguson was more of DoF than coach in his later years, but still had other people do the actual negotiating. Redknapp isn't exactly a training ground kind of guy either. I'll the bet the majority of his work consists of chatting with agents, looking for some bargain deals to be made, rather than spend any time coaching. There will always be people dealing with scouting and transfer dealings, whether their title is DoF or not.

I see what your saying but I think my point and none of us will ever really know if it is true but it is whether the director of football gets to much of an input on who we sign. It should come down to the manager/coach.

Get someone else to do the negotiating on the actual deals and someone to scout the players, but the guy who puts the team out every week should get final say on who we sign, otherwise you get players who will not play at a club, like lamela who avb clearly did not like.

 

[Kingdawson]

Chich...empty you inbox.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I see what your saying but I think my point and none of us will ever really know if it is true but it is whether the director of football gets to much of an input on who we sign. It should come down to the manager/coach.

Get someone else to do the negotiating on the actual deals and someone to scout the players, but the guy who puts the team out every week should get final say on who we sign, otherwise you get players who will not play at a club, like lamela who avb clearly did not like.

Why would you want your coach to even know about young defenders playing in the Romanian league (Chirches) or midfielders in the Croatian league (Modric)?

A coach should be focused 100% on tactically, mentally and physically preparing his squad to be as absolutely elite as they possibly can. Sussing out every intricate weakness of our upcoming opponents. Squeezing that extra 2% out of the resources at his disposal.

If you get a full time coach working amateurishly on transfers on the side, you end up with Redknapp's 'friends and family' approach, while turning down unfamiliar players like Suarez and Cavani. You need a full-time transfer guru, not a coach who watches MOTD on the bus home and has a nephew who tells him who is hard to play against.

 

[Jurgen the German]

What? i asked how you think he is performing SO FAR?

you mean a sprinkle of Palacios, Crouch, VDV, Bassong and King in the 2010/11 season and Adebayor, King, Parker, VDV, Walker and Friedel who were all first X1 regulars. Quit rewriting history GB.

Was going to post something similar but no need, brilliant post =D>

 

[Jurgen the German]

Which managers truly have the freedom to sign whoever they want? Wenger. Martinez, but Everton have no money. Even if Rodgers have final say at Liverpool, they have been much more careful about how much they spend on individual targets since his appointment. Chelsea, City, Southampton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, WBA, Sunderland all have a DoF or similar. It's the bottom half clubs that let their managers spend freely and get nowhere because they turn over their entire squad every 2 or 3 years at massive cost, with the previous manager's signings now having little to no value despite costing a fortune when bought.

The idea that a manager should run everything at a club is outdated and quite frankly counter productive. It's impossible for one man to everything and do it well. Even Ferguson was more of DoF than coach in his later years, but still had other people do the actual negotiating. Redknapp isn't exactly a training ground kind of guy either. I'll the bet the majority of his work consists of chatting with agents, looking for some bargain deals to be made, rather than spend any time coaching. There will always be people dealing with scouting and transfer dealings, whether their title is DoF or not.

Forget the other clubs for a second, what do you think of the system and how it has been implemented and how it has worked at our club?

I can't just shrug off all the problems it has led to with managers:

Santini walked out.

AVB had players signed for him that he didn't want, I didn't rate him but to me that just seems utterly ridiculous and I sympathise with any manager who has to go through that situation.

Not left wingers during the Commolli years.

No tough ball winners during the Commolli years.

Buying strikers we didn't need during the Commolli years.

 

[thfcsteff]

On Spurscommunity, they're saying that Ian Broomfield has been convinced to return to us and not go to the gooners…interesting news if that's the case...

 

[Jordinho]

Forget the other clubs for a second, what do you think of the system and how it has been implemented and how it has worked at our club?

I can't just shrug off all the problems it has led to with managers:

Santini walked out.

AVB had players signed for him that he didn't want, I didn't rate him but to me that just seems utterly ridiculous and I sympathise with any manager who has to go through that situation.

Not left wingers during the Commolli years.

No tough ball winners during the Commolli years.

Buying strikers we didn't need during the Commolli years.

Or you could look at all the dross some managers sign, players they have no need for or intention of playing.

We hire a coaching team to work with the first team squad. The notion that the head coach or manager must be allowed to pick the exact players he wants to work with is ridiculous. It does not work like that anywhere else and anyone with an ounce of coaching ability should be able to make a team out of what he has. If he does that relatively successfully he can go to chairman and ask for one or two specific players to complement what he has.

The DoF, or anyone else that works behind the scenes, is there to do most of the administrative tasks, negotiating, dealing with scouts and agents and to provide stability. You certainly won't get long term success by shifting the entire squad every 2-3-4 years because the new guy doesn't fancy them. There might be minor shifts in what kind of players we target when a new coach arrives, but coaches should be hired to fit the club's philosophy. That is one weak spot of ours still, we haven't really got a clear idea of how we want to play besides attractive, attacking football, but at least we're trying to protect our investments by signing players that are on their way up. To blame Baldini for this summer is pointless as he arrived in the midst of it all and only now will he have some kind plan for how to take us forward.

 

[scaramanga]

I'll the bet the majority of his work consists of chatting with agents

Yep. That and spending his money/not stashing it in offshore accounts.

 

[spasm]

Chich...empty you inbox.

is that a cheeky metaphor?

 

[Kingdawson]

Or you could look at all the dross some managers sign, players they have no need for or intention of playing.

We hire a coaching team to work with the first team squad. The notion that the head coach or manager must be allowed to pick the exact players he wants to work with is ridiculous. It does not work like that anywhere else and anyone with an ounce of coaching ability should be able to make a team out of what he has. If he does that relatively successfully he can go to chairman and ask for one or two specific players to complement what he has.

The DoF, or anyone else that works behind the scenes, is there to do most of the administrative tasks, negotiating, dealing with scouts and agents and to provide stability. You certainly won't get long term success by shifting the entire squad every 2-3-4 years because the new guy doesn't fancy them. There might be minor shifts in what kind of players we target when a new coach arrives, but coaches should be hired to fit the club's philosophy. That is one weak spot of ours still, we haven't really got a clear idea of how we want to play besides attractive, attacking football, but at least we're trying to protect our investments by signing players that are on their way up. To blame Baldini for this summer is pointless as he arrived in the midst of it all and only now will he have some kind plan for how to take us forward.

and that prevents him from signing players capable of starting in the first X1 and actually delivering a balanced squad? the answer is no. Lets take a deeper look at what Baldini has done:

1) We needed a striker....he spends 26m on nogoaldado. Was there any communication with AVB (I think there was tbh but still)? Nogoaldado was never going to suit AVB's system so not only did Baldini pay 26m on a dud...he spent it on one that doesn't even suit the system.

2) Ball playing CM. He decides we don't need one and instead he spends 17m on Invisibilinho. The man can't pass and rarely gets involved in general play....we needed a good passer that dictates play.

3) Capoue? as i felt when we signed him...what the **** was the point? i would have much preferred we kept Parker as the understudy to Sandro (and Parker has performed well at Fulham). Capoue is a good player but wasn't really needed.

4) Lamela...ok i still have faith as i think he'll come good but so far it's not been good (mostly down to AVB tbf)

5) Left back....it was ****ing obvious but i guess not to Baldini. We've gone the season with 1 recognised LB....a disgrace.

6) Ghastli....what was the point? ok i guess it was a low priced risk that could be very beneficial...well...it wasn't.


So to sum up. We've ended up with a lopsided squad, we still don't know what our best X1 is, we still don't know what our best formation is, our manager has been sacked and the season is nearly over.

 

[Kingdawson]

is that a cheeky metaphor?

no:lol:

 

[milo]

On Spurscommunity, they're saying that Ian Broomfield has been convinced to return to us and not go to the gooners…interesting news if that's the case...

Interesting to see one of Harry's men returning

 

[Jordinho]

and that prevents him from signing players capable of starting in the first X1 and actually delivering a balanced squad? the answer is no. Lets take a deeper look at what Baldini has done:

1) We needed a striker....he spends 26m on nogoaldado. Was there any communication with AVB (I think there was tbh but still)? Nogoaldado was never going to suit AVB's system so not only did Baldini pay 26m on a dud...he spent it on one that doesn't even suit the system.

2) Ball playing CM. He decides we don't need one and instead he spends 17m on Invisibilinho. The man can't pass and rarely gets involved in general play....we needed a good passer that dictates play.

3) Capoue? as i felt when we signed him...what the **** was the point? i would have much preferred we kept Parker as the understudy to Sandro (and Parker has performed well at Fulham). Capoue is a good player but wasn't really needed.

4) Lamela...ok i still have faith as i think he'll come good but so far it's not been good (mostly down to AVB tbf)

5) Left back....it was ****ing obvious but i guess not to Baldini. We've gone the season with 1 recognised LB....a disgrace.

6) Ghastli....what was the point? ok i guess it was a low priced risk that could be very beneficial...well...it wasn't.


So to sum up. We've ended up with a lopsided squad, we still don't know what our best X1 is, we still don't know what our best formation is, our manager has been sacked and the season is nearly over.

And you know Baldini is solely responsible for all of this how?

Or is it not more likely he was initially given names already agreed on?

The only one I see him having had a major influence on is Lamela.

 

[scaramanga]

Interesting to see one of Harry's men returning

Anyone we fancy on here?

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/willie-mckay/details/berater_242.html

 

[Kingdawson]

And you know Baldini is solely responsible for all of this how?

Or is it not more likely he was initially given names already agreed on?

The only one I see him having had a major influence on is Lamela.

I don't understand? he's the DOF? his job is to sign players.

 

[Jordinho]

I don't understand? he's the DOF? his job is to sign players.

His job is to be part of the process, I highly doubt he's tasked with going out spending on whatever players he sees fit without some form of approval from others.

The transfer committee will agree on targets, then Baldini, Levy and couple of others will do all the necessary ground work. Sounding out agents and players, making enquiries and eventually putting in bids.

 

[Kingdawson]

His job is to be part of the process, I highly doubt he's tasked with going out spending on whatever players he sees fit without some form of approval from others.

The transfer committee will agree on targets, then Baldini, Levy and couple of others will do all the necessary ground work. Sounding out agents and players, making enquiries and eventually putting in bids.

If what you're saying is true....then there's no need for a DOF and Baldini can leave with immediate effect. My understanding was that a DOF's job was to identify targets, and depending on his relationship with the manager...he would discuss these targets with the manager (which i feel did happen with AVB)...and then ask the chairman if it's feasible before going out there and negotiating with the players club.

Now you're saying different i hope even more he goes. We can simply do a better job getting a very good Chief scout and having confidence in him to target the right players with the manager.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Or you could look at all the dross some managers sign, players they have no need for or intention of playing.

We hire a coaching team to work with the first team squad. The notion that the head coach or manager must be allowed to pick the exact players he wants to work with is ridiculous. It does not work like that anywhere else and anyone with an ounce of coaching ability should be able to make a team out of what he has. If he does that relatively successfully he can go to chairman and ask for one or two specific players to complement what he has.

The DoF, or anyone else that works behind the scenes, is there to do most of the administrative tasks, negotiating, dealing with scouts and agents and to provide stability. You certainly won't get long term success by shifting the entire squad every 2-3-4 years because the new guy doesn't fancy them. There might be minor shifts in what kind of players we target when a new coach arrives, but coaches should be hired to fit the club's philosophy. That is one weak spot of ours still, we haven't really got a clear idea of how we want to play besides attractive, attacking football, but at least we're trying to protect our investments by signing players that are on their way up. To blame Baldini for this summer is pointless as he arrived in the midst of it all and only now will he have some kind plan for how to take us forward.

And what do you make specifically of the problems the structure has caused at Spurs with managers walking out because the players weren't even his choice and AVB claiming players signed weren't his choices? You don't see a problem with managers not getting to pick which players we sign?

 

[Jordinho]

If what you're saying is true....then there's no need for a DOF and Baldini can leave with immediate effect. My understanding was that a DOF's job was to identify targets, and depending on his relationship with the manager...he would discuss these targets with the manager (which i feel did happen with AVB)...and then ask the chairman if it's feasible before going out there and negotiating with the players club.

Now you're saying different i hope even more he goes. We can simply do a better job getting a very good Chief scout and having confidence in him to target the right players with the manager.

A DoF is a chief scout, negotiator, coordinator, schmoozer (being well connected and a smooth operator is a huge part of this job) and a link between the coaches and the board. There's nothing in the daily running of a football club that should be one man only. Someone will be in charge, but it's a team effort. A DoF will take on some of Levy's chores, freeing him up to deal with the bigger stuff like sponsorship, stadium and such, and some of the administrative stuff that the old time managers would deal with (contracts, dealing with agents (which has become a huge task with today's spoilt and greedy generation of players). I prefer my head coaches to actually coach, not be sat in an office chatting on the phone, only to show up when it's time to pick the starting XI.

 

[Jordinho]

And what do you make specifically of the problems the structure has caused at Spurs with managers walking out because the players weren't even his choice and AVB claiming players signed weren't his choices? You don't see a problem with managers not getting to pick which players we sign?

We hire a coach to coach the players. We hire a DoF to deal with the signing of players. A manager nowadays is closer to a DoF than a coach, but I just think it's become too much for one person to deal with.

If someone is unable to work with the players at his disposal, that's on him, not anyone else. The way it works for us is nowhere near what it's like at Real or Chelsea, where players are signed merely to placate the fans or because the president/owner is an idiot. You can point to signings that haven't worked out, but we had more strange signings under Redknapp than all of our DoFs combined. Just because we need a particular players, it's not like there's a listing of players to choose from. Sometimes the right one just isn't available and you're left with the choice of either signing an inferior player that you have to sell again in a year's time (possibly at a loss) or you could wait and see if someone becomes available in the next window. Just look at those emergency striker signings we've made over the years. Some of them we'd have better off without, despite possibly leaving us short for a few games.