Our scouting network

[Jordinho]

Re: Broomfield

it was really him?

I have no idea, but his posts suggests something other than the usual nonsense spouting fan.

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: Broomfield

I have no idea, but his posts suggests something other than the usual nonsense spouting fan.

He must have used the spell-check function #-o

 

[braineclipse]

Sometimes I wonder if scouting in general is a defunct industry. Full time scouting, anyway.

Clubs have part time regional scouts who watch games and report back. My assumption is they will do the same thing for a number of clubs and go with a brief in mind to look for certain things for a certain team, or watch players on a tip off from someone else before recommending them to someone next in line. The same thing with youth teams and district/county trial matches.

Pushy agents tout their client around from club to club, arrange trial trips to a country and a week at various clubs to get him a move. More of these and there is no need for scouts to go anywhere, the players come to you.

On top of that there are independent companies who compile footage of players and send the DVDs to clubs. My friend used to do this for the Belgian and French leagues, Spurs was an occasional client although I don't know who they were looking at - if anyone. It may have been potential Europa/CL opponents.

No doubt games like Football Manager have been used by teams, maybe not to sign someone based on a 20 season game as Spurs manager but as a guide to research further into the player. England has a problem whereby Brazilians or Argentinians have a language barrier (although they seem happy to go to Ru$$ia for a while) and a visa issue to overcome, as well as the common third-party ownership outlawed by the PL. It does mean losing out on talents to other leagues or having to delay signings of prospects for a year or so where a lot can change - injury, ownership %, development.

So many games are televised, if you go to the popular streaming sites you will see games from all over the world at all levels. There are very few players that are 'unknown' to clubs, but buying them is getting harder and harder.

There is a scene in the Moneyball movie where the old baseball scouts sit around with Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill pleading their case and justifying their job.. stats can't see what we see, they don't have the judgment that we have, etc etc. Maybe but judgment is wrong as well, all signings are a risk. High performing players in low performing teams represent value and are worth following up, watching a game in isolation doesn't show that either. Wenger was tipped off about Vermaelen and sent his scouts to watch him so many times, often when he was a full back. The scouts said he was average or worse. Then they went back and saw him play at centre back and he was much better. If it was just on scouting they wouldn't have signed him.

I think what is more important than scouting now is having good relationships with clubs. As the wealth becomes concentrated at the top there will be others who need to sell year on year, being top of the list when chairmen need to make a call is valuable. Maybe more valuable than sending someone off to watch a game on a Saturday or Wednesday night.

Also, developing the recruitment network for the academy. Actual talent rather than just size and strength. Getting the prospects first, seeing things in a kid that others don't. This can be done through the schools I suppose.. no doubt Spurs do all these things, I just think the expectation placed upon a scouting network is more than it should be and the thinking is outdated.

I think you slightly underestimate the importance of scouts.

Agents and companies will bring information to the club, but to decide who among the hundreds (or thousands) of players being touted to actually go for you need someone who can pick the real talents from the over achievers. The manager and his assistant will obviously have a say, but someone needs to help him and let him know who he should look into and who can be ignored.

Also a lot of the work for scouts will be tracking players over time, players that come into their sights early on, but aren't at that time a viable target. Quite often you hear about players talking about how the club they signed for had been tracking them for years.

Scouts will work with with the statistics available to the club, it's not an either or situation.

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Broomfield

I know people who are professional footballers and they weren't even the best in the there year at school. They just wanted it more and were more dedicated. Good luck to your nephew, such a young age, anything can happen

He actually pretty good, owns it every Sunday, they rotate the subs so everyone gets fair share of playing time but they fall apart when he has to come off. The team he plays for is probably the best known team in the area too, and does its own scouting for the best kids, they have proper badged up coaches as well. It is exciting though.. the Charlton training ground is in Eltham area so very close to them so that's handy. He just lives and breathes football at the minute, my brother doesn't tell him to practice, he just does it.

Last two years we have got him a goal from here http://www.networldfootball.co.uk/f...side-goals/8-x-4-5-a-side-football-goals.html

Great products although extremely shoddy on the delivery time table, me and my brother used to dream of our own goals when we were little, we used the fence panel. He gets friends over after school and during the summer play out there till 6 every night.

When he was 6, we went to his local school fete, they had a penalty competition 50p a shot to win a football if you scored. The goalkeeper was from Welling Utd, anyway.. he waited in the queue for his go, being a short-arse the goalkeeper came out the goal and brought the ball forward a little (like he had for all the other young'uns), my nephew picked up the ball and put it back where all the other older kids had it.. 5 step run up, bang top corner.. there was an instant.. WOW reaction from the crowd watching, one of disbelief, all the other kids his age had about managed to reach the goal with their shot.

The goalkeeper walked over to my Nephew asked his name and said, I'll remember that name.

One shouldn't get carried away but you cannot help it, and he's not even my son.. just want him to do well really.

He isn't happy he has to give up Beaver's though.. Still Cubs is next year and that's on a different day.

 

[Danners9]

I think you slightly underestimate the importance of scouts.

Agents and companies will bring information to the club, but to decide who among the hundreds (or thousands) of players being touted to actually go for you need someone who can pick the real talents from the over achievers. The manager and his assistant will obviously have a say, but someone needs to help him and let him know who he should look into and who can be ignored.

Also a lot of the work for scouts will be tracking players over time, players that come into their sights early on, but aren't at that time a viable target. Quite often you hear about players talking about how the club they signed for had been tracking them for years.

Scouts will work with with the statistics available to the club, it's not an either or situation.

I just don't see it as being the be all and end all of signing a player. This person's opinion is as valid as plenty of other people given the information available now. That is why I said having relationships with people at other clubs is maybe more important.

 

[braineclipse]

I just don't see it as being the be all and end all of signing a player. This person's opinion is as valid as plenty of other people given the information available now. That is why I said having relationships with people at other clubs is maybe more important.

The scouts we employ work for us, other clubs and agents do not.

They might not be in a position to make a better objective decisions than those not employed by us, but at least they will be serving the interests of the our club, not the selling club.

 

[Denmark Spur]

Ian Dennis ‏@Iandennisbbc

Interesting development at Spurs Daniel Levy has enticed top scout Ian Broomfield back to WHL. He was all set to join Arsenal #AFC #thfc

*****

Interesting if true

Wonder what this means for Baldy and the whole scouting setup

 

[Jurgen the German]

Just get rid of the DOF system. Let the scouts scout and the manager pick which players he sign with the scouts suggesting players to him. It causes problems time and time again within our club. Maybe the system CAN work, but not at Spurs.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Just get rid of the DOF system. Let the scouts scout and the manager pick which players he sign with the scouts suggesting players to him. It causes problems time and time again within our club. Maybe the system CAN work, but not at Spurs.

THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I know it is immature to do it all in capitals but i absolutely hate this ****ing director of football system. Have a chief scout and it can be baldini if he is prepared to stay but it must be clear to everyone that our summer spending was all wrong. I do not care if the players are great players n 5 years time. How does that help the manager if he gets sacked.

Let the manager have scouts he trusts and tell them what sort of players he wants then let him get on with it.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Just get rid of the DOF system. Let the scouts scout and the manager pick which players he sign with the scouts suggesting players to him. It causes problems time and time again within our club. Maybe the system CAN work, but not at Spurs.

None of the coaches we are linked with for the summer have ever worked without a DoF as far as I'm aware.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

None of the coaches we are linked with for the summer have ever worked without a DoF as far as I'm aware.

Funny how foreign coaches come to this league and seem to do alright without one. I am all for a more experinced coach and if he is from abroad fair enough, I have read a lot of times how foreign coaches like coaching here because they get to choose the players they sign.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Funny how foreign coaches come to this league and seem to do alright without one. I am all for a more experinced coach and if he is from abroad fair enough, I have read a lot of times how foreign coaches like coaching here because they get to choose the players they sign.

Like who?

- Wenger had David Dein when he was making good signings
- Mourinho has always had people like Michael Emenalo and Arnesen around, as well as a hands-on Abramovich
- Pellegrini works under Txiki Begiristain

 

[Kingdawson]

None of the coaches we are linked with for the summer have ever worked without a DoF as far as I'm aware.

How has Baldini performed to you so far?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Like who?

- Wenger had David Dein when he was making good signings
- Mourinho has always had people like Michael Emenalo and Arnesen around, as well as a hands-on Abramovich
- Pellegrini works under Txiki Begiristain

The chap at Everton springs to mind but I have the years heard a few say how they liked the freedom. You will never concede that it is a bad system as you love it, far enough that is you business. But when ever we have the system we end up with a lope sided team and problems on the pitch.

 

[Kingdawson]

The chap at Everton springs to mind but I have the years heard a few say how they liked the freedom. You will never concede that it is a bad system as you love it, far enough that is you business. But when ever we have the system we end up with a lope sided team and problems on the pitch.

Very true.

Our most balanced X1 was the 11/12 season and guess what? no DOF. Hell even our 10/11 X1 was extremely balanced although not as good.

 

[Jurgen the German]

None of the coaches we are linked with for the summer have ever worked without a DoF as far as I'm aware.

AS JGL said, we end up with lop sided squad, either too many wingers/strikers/, not enough strikers or too many lumps who can't play and have no guile. Literally every time it has caused problems with the manager. Santini walked out, AVB ended up with players he didn't ask for, it did Jol no favours, would like more examples?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Like who?

- Wenger had David Dein when he was making good signings
- Mourinho has always had people like Michael Emenalo and Arnesen around, as well as a hands-on Abramovich
- Pellegrini works under Txiki Begiristain

I'm pretty sure Wenger would still have picked the player, or at the very least they wouldn't have said "here you go Arsene here's Capoue, Chadli and Lamela. We know you didn't want them but work some magic."

 

[Gutter Boy]

How has Baldini performed to you so far?

It's too early to tell. His focus is 2-4 years ahead. We had to overhaul so much in the summer because of the absence of long-term planning during the Redknapp years.

The chap at Everton springs to mind but I have the years heard a few say how they liked the freedom. You will never concede that it is a bad system as you love it, far enough that is you business. But when ever we have the system we end up with a lope sided team and problems on the pitch.

It's too big a job for one person. They need such different specialisms. You might as well combine coach with chairman, or groundsman.

Very true.

Our most balanced X1 was the 11/12 season and guess what? no DOF. Hell even our 10/11 X1 was extremely balanced although not as good.

The squad Commolli assembled with two years of maturing and a sprinkle of vdV?

 

[Jordinho]

Which managers truly have the freedom to sign whoever they want? Wenger. Martinez, but Everton have no money. Even if Rodgers have final say at Liverpool, they have been much more careful about how much they spend on individual targets since his appointment. Chelsea, City, Southampton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, WBA, Sunderland all have a DoF or similar. It's the bottom half clubs that let their managers spend freely and get nowhere because they turn over their entire squad every 2 or 3 years at massive cost, with the previous manager's signings now having little to no value despite costing a fortune when bought.

The idea that a manager should run everything at a club is outdated and quite frankly counter productive. It's impossible for one man to everything and do it well. Even Ferguson was more of DoF than coach in his later years, but still had other people do the actual negotiating. Redknapp isn't exactly a training ground kind of guy either. I'll the bet the majority of his work consists of chatting with agents, looking for some bargain deals to be made, rather than spend any time coaching. There will always be people dealing with scouting and transfer dealings, whether their title is DoF or not.

 

[Kingdawson]

What? i asked how you think he is performing SO FAR?

you mean a sprinkle of Palacios, Crouch, VDV, Bassong and King in the 2010/11 season and Adebayor, King, Parker, VDV, Walker and Friedel who were all first X1 regulars. Quit rewriting history GB.