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Our Poor European Form

SUIYHA

Scott Parker
A lot's been made of Wembley, injuries and Moussa Sissoko, but I think we need to take a step back and consider just how long our poor European performances have been going on for now.

When we qualified for European competition for the first time in ages in 2006, Jol's team set a British record if eight consecutive wins in the competition, a run that was only ended when the eventual winners, Sevilla, were given a ridiculous penalty when we were leading at their place. The following season we lost to Getafe in Jol's last game, that was only our second European defeat at the Lane in our entire history up to that point (the other being against Real Madrid in 1985). We had plenty of memorable European nights over the next couple of years, with those wins over the two Milan clubs in the Champions League being the pinnacle.

But since that Champions League campaign six seasons ago, something has been badly wrong. Even putting aside the facts that English teams are generally not as dominant in Europe as they were a few years ago, or that we've rested players in the Europa League, we've been unusually poor in European games.

Over those six campaigns, I'd ask you to think of how many really impressive Spurs performances there have been. We've stuck a few past a few part timers from Eastern Europe at the Lane a couple of times, but how many times have we come up against credible opposition and risen properly to the challenge?

Beating Inter 3-0 was great, but that Inter team was terrible and finished 9th in Serie A and they still spanked us 4-1 in the return leg. It was also good to see us win against Fiorentina and Monaco last season. But other than those games? I can't think of anything. Meanwhile, we are usually being well beaten by every half-decent team we face, whether it's Dortmund, Fiorentina (2015), Besiktas, Benfica or Basel...even Dnipro gave us a real scare and we lost to Anderlecht in the group stages last season. Let's not even talk about the time we finished behind Rubin Kazan and PAOK Salonika and failed to get out of the Europa League group stages.

Yet in that time, we have had fantastic results against all of the big teams in England, we outperform many teams domestically who outperform us in Europe and we've seen plenty of our players excel for their countries. We look to be far stronger on paper than we're demonstrating in European competition. This seems to be a far deeper issue than Pochettino or any of the players. Why do you think we're struggling so badly?
 
It's true. It's like we're not really up for it. Playing kids, not putting in shifts (especially in away games - then now even at "home"/Wembley).

Well, it's time to focus on the league! Time to focus on getting 4th or better, to qualify for Champions League. Oh, wait ...
 
Investment in established quality players.

But that is an easy answer. We are though always trying to compare ourselves with much better financed sides.

Europe is where we tend to cut our cloth according.
 
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It's true. It's like we're not really up for it. Playing kids, not putting in shifts (especially in away games - then now even at "home"/Wembley).

Well, it's time to focus on the league! Time to focus on getting 4th or better, to qualify for Champions League. Oh, wait ...

To get the additional revenue we need to keep our best players/upgrade on the weaker ones. It could take years to assemble a squad capable of going strong in more than one competition.
 
You cant draw any valid comparison between our form in a competition the players have no interest playing in and the champion's league.


The exact same Spurs side that got to the Champion's League quarter finals went out in the group of the Europa/Uefa the season after.
 
Honestly... because our target has been champions league and we haven't actually put out our best 11 in any of those games IMO. The players motivation for it won't have been as great abs it was for example last season going for the league

We also didn't have squad depth

Now we get into it we move to Wembley the hell hole curse of a ground and lose both games -and it's actually back fired as its cost us more revenue Than we would have got at the lane if we went through
 
There's two reasons for me
1, our league is much stronger so with a relatively small/weak squad we need to manage it better and prioritise the league games more for first team. How many English teams have done well in the league and Europe in the same season in the last 10 years?

2. We underestimate the non glamour teams.
Take this year's group, that was a tough group that anyone could have won or been last in.
Each of those 3 other clubs have been group teams almost every year for the last 5 years. That allows them to spend money and attract players for that level. The squad also has experience of playing at that level and of the occasion.
Maybe the club and the management don't but the I feel a lot of the fans, the press and maybe even some of the players turn up with the attitude of , huh a French team, a Russian team from Diddy leagues, we play in the best league in the world, this will be easy.
 
1, our league is much stronger so with a relatively small/weak squad we need to manage it better and prioritise the league games more for first team. How many English teams have done well in the league and Europe in the same season in the last 10 years?

This is spot on. Our league really bites into all but the biggest squads.
Pep is saying it will take City up to 10 years to be comfortably in Europe. Maybe a little OTT, but the general premise is about right.
 
Firstly I do think we are in a slump at the moment. Irrespective of Europe, our form as a whole has been way off, but I have also noticed how poorly we compare with the European sides.

I'm slightly (blindly maybe) optimistic that we are learning each year. In Poch's first season with us, I thought we looked out of our depth in Europe. There were holes in front of our defence, we didn't make enough of our chances and we made a lot of unforced error's. Last season though we actually looked like a decent side in a good couple of games, in some a top side, but mainly a decent one. Fiorentina at home was a decent display against a bigger team, but we ultimately saw that a truly top team could beat us with ease (BVB).

A lot of us put that down to a lack of squad depth, but evidently there is more to it than that. Yes a player like Trippier is not good enough for the Champion's League and I bet Walker is gutted that he hasn't had more games in the competition, but we hoped that with additions like Wanyama and Janssen we would have given us the ability to fight on multiple fronts. I do think Poch is right about our squad depth, we don't have enough top quality players in attack. Eriksen has regressed, Son blows hot and cold and Alli isn't anywhere near as dynamic as last year. This is made worse by the fact that Lamela is injured and N'koudou seemingly not ready for first team football. I was gutted over the summer that we didn't go all in for players like Mané, especially when we obviously had the money (Sissoko).

I don't think we are as defensively sound as our record shows. Even accounting for the nature of a pressing system, I don't think we are quick enough to reform our shape and our midfield are easy to break through. The sides from the continent seem more able to restrict our attacks without sitting back for 90 minutes hoping to score on the counter. From an attacking point of view, we lack quality. We don't see enough movement and combination play between the front players at the moment. This is more of a general complaint than one just aimed at Europe.

Poch does look to be experimenting at the moment. We have rolled out 3 different systems in the last 3 matches, so he recognises that there is a problem and is trying to find a solution. There's just a brick load more pressure because he is doing it during the competitive part of the year.
 
Leicester seem to have done ok.

Much easier group - not sure if they are not out spending us ATM.
I can't, as much as I try to, take bloody Wembley out of this season European odyssey. IMHO it's going to take some time to get used to playing there, which is somewhat unexplainable. But a psychologist would probably have the words. Mine is, a type of mild disorientation?
 
I don't buy that. It's not like our league form has been amazing either.

Could be that the tactics Leicester employed last season have been sussed by opposition managers in the league and teams know how to play them, teams in Europe haven't sussed that.
 
I don't buy that. It's not like our league form has been amazing either.

Could be that the tactics Leicester employed last season have been sussed by opposition managers in the league and teams know how to play them, teams in Europe haven't sussed that.

Yes in both cases, you could be correct.
There is no one reason.
 
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