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Our impossible position

Money is one thing but when our squad IMO has been weakened by transfers then I can't completely accept the point. Chadli and Townsend are two players which offered us chances created and goals. Compared to them, although he has improved, we have the liability of Llamela. Never sure if he's about to do something brilliant or petulant and get sent off. Then we have £30m sissoko. Why oh why!!!
After two full seasons we are now seeing pochetinos squad. I think in the attacking 1/3rd it looks worse now than it has done.

I agree we have regressed some what in the attacking areas, with players like Lamela, Eriksen and Son and then the two French wingers that he seems not to want after buying. It seems to be his Achilles Heel and I am wondering how he did it at other clubs whether they regresses as an attacking force.
 
Not sure about the accuracy of your figures Modric. Monaco have players like falcao and Moutinho on big wages. Ditto Atletico have players like Griezmann, Koke and Godin on wages above £100000 per week. @DubaiSpur, you dismiss our injuries this season by saying the other teams have had similar injuries but we have loss the spine of our team bar lloris at various points of the season, as well as important players such as Lamela and alli and of course Rose was out on Saturday. Our options off the bench are not great and we play in arguably a more competitive league than any other team in our group. I know you have encyclopedic knowledge of teams in other leagues, can you detail how injuries affected them in the same way?

I sourced the figures above in a post. They're from Sporting intelligence and they match up with whats on Swiss Ramble and published reported on the official Spurs website.

Monaco might have one or two on a high wage but they had a complete clear out at the club after the Russian owner was handed the biggest divorce settlement in history (£2.7 billion!). They changed their entire setup and invested in younger players on smaller wages.

Anyway my point was that wages aren't the be all and end all. A comparison with Monaco and Leverkusen's wages were supposed to show this.
I mean you can pay Sissoko 95k a week and not even include him in the squad.
United can have a huge wage bill and outside the top 4 season after season.
The same Chelsea players that were brick last season and earlier in this one are getting paid the same as the ones top of the league now.

Its down to the best use of what you have and targeting the right players. We go out every year and buy back up and wonder why our squad doesnt improve

We have Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Rose, Dembele, Eriksen, Lamela and Kane. All 8 first choice. All 8 predate Poch.

We go out every season and take punts on players and hope Poch can do the best with it.
Some of them work out like Dier and Alli. Some are a mess like Fazio, Yedlin, Sissoko, N'Jie, Stambouli.

Under Poch only Alderweireld was bought with the intention of sticking him straight into the first team.

You can see why Paul Mitchell left. I must have been incredibly frustrating working under a budget. Only for the head coach to decide he wants Moussa Sissoko for 30m and another £25m in wages over the next 5 years.
 
I absolutely 100% knew this would happen this year. It happens every year on the back of success. I posted a while back a thread called the power of expectation or something like that.

Over achieving is almost the very worst thing a manager can do in the current day and age. In the modern 24 hour a day super sports headline for every little thing sky world once you have over achieved, you become that level. Therefore once you drop the slightest below that level they cut you down, because its all about sensation and news now. Unfortunately the fans have been fed all this brick for so long that greater and greater percentages are starting to believe it. So once you over achieve, you are held at a level which if you drop below gets you in trouble.

The facts are, last year we finished 3rd in the league, with a very young team. On this very forum at the start of this season 90% on here thought we would have finished 5-6th maybe challenged for 4th. So finishing 3rd and challenging for the title until the last few games was an amazing over achievement for a team so young.

Now, at the end of last season, 90% of people on here when asked said, it's very unlikely that we'll repeat that. Chelsea, City etc will be back, Liverpool will be stronger.

So now, Chelsea and City are back. Liverpool are stronger. We are sitting on a similar points total to last season at this point having not really got into our stride.

Yet, a growing proportion of the fan base are unhappy. All of a sudden, Poch hasn't spent his money well, the players aren't buying into his methods anymore, moving Eric Dier out of midfield has upset the more sensitive members of the fudging team. Why is all this being said? Because the media constantly feed this flimflam into people and eventually it starts to catch on.

I'd ask everyone on this forum to sit down and think about what their expectations were for this season and ask them selves, are we really that far away from where you thought we would be? And if we are, why is that? If we are not, why the need for the crisis talks?
 
Money is one thing but when our squad IMO has been weakened by transfers then I can't completely accept the point. Chadli and Townsend are two players which offered us chances created and goals. Compared to them, although he has improved, we have the liability of Llamela. Never sure if he's about to do something brilliant or petulant and get sent off. Then we have £30m sissoko. Why oh why!!!
After two full seasons we are now seeing pochetinos squad. I think in the attacking 1/3rd it looks worse now than it has done.
Has Lamela even been sent off before?

I think Lamela is still vastly underrated by most. I agree he and Eriksen need to start assisting and scoring a bit more this season (can say that about everyone).

I don't think we look worse in the attacking third necessarily. We have had a tough period. Key injuries, a squad stretched across two premier competitions with little experience from the bench. We are again victims of our own success. Ahead of where we should be, but now arguably one of the strongest XI's in the league. I'll keep saying it, but give us an injury free run of games where we can field the same XI or little variation and I expect us to win the majority of games we play.
 
Has Lamela even been sent off before?

I think Lamela is still vastly underrated by most. I agree he and Eriksen need to start assisting and scoring a bit more this season (can say that about everyone).

I don't think we look worse in the attacking third necessarily. We have had a tough period. Key injuries, a squad stretched across two premier competitions with little experience from the bench. We are again victims of our own success. Ahead of where we should be, but now arguably one of the strongest XI's in the league. I'll keep saying it, but give us an injury free run of games where we can field the same XI or little variation and I expect us to win the majority of games we play.

I can't agree more
 
I absolutely 100% knew this would happen this year. It happens every year on the back of success. I posted a while back a thread called the power of expectation or something like that.

Over achieving is almost the very worst thing a manager can do in the current day and age. In the modern 24 hour a day super sports headline for every little thing sky world once you have over achieved, you become that level. Therefore once you drop the slightest below that level they cut you down, because its all about sensation and news now. Unfortunately the fans have been fed all this brick for so long that greater and greater percentages are starting to believe it. So once you over achieve, you are held at a level which if you drop below gets you in trouble.

The facts are, last year we finished 3rd in the league, with a very young team. On this very forum at the start of this season 90% on here thought we would have finished 5-6th maybe challenged for 4th. So finishing 3rd and challenging for the title until the last few games was an amazing over achievement for a team so young.

Now, at the end of last season, 90% of people on here when asked said, it's very unlikely that we'll repeat that. Chelsea, City etc will be back, Liverpool will be stronger.

So now, Chelsea and City are back. Liverpool are stronger. We are sitting on a similar points total to last season at this point having not really got into our stride.

Yet, a growing proportion of the fan base are unhappy. All of a sudden, Poch hasn't spent his money well, the players aren't buying into his methods anymore, moving Eric Dier out of midfield has upset the more sensitive members of the fudging team. Why is all this being said? Because the media constantly feed this hogwash into people and eventually it starts to catch on.

I'd ask everyone on this forum to sit down and think about what their expectations were for this season and ask them selves, are we really that far away from where you thought we would be? And if we are, why is that? If we are not, why the need for the crisis talks?

Generally I'm on your side here, but I will say for those a little irritated with the transfer window, I can completely understand their frustration. We didn't really buy that well considering we had CL football on offer. I'm not saying necessarily that we could go out and buy the very best, but aside from Wanyama, the others have very much been underwhelming.

Willing to give Janssen time - it hasn't really worked for him yet. These things happen, and it is always a calculated risk when opting for a player with less experience.
Nkoudou - Not exactly pushing the first XI right now and hasn't really showed that he can be a real fixture in our side yet. Again willing to give him time.
Sissoko - I have never been a fan of this signing. We should have gone for Mane or even Wijnaldum. Especially when we signed Sissoko for this much money.
 
We are ATM paying for miss managment back in the late 80's till Enic arrived.
We are now behind the likes of Arsenal by at least 12 or so years.
Fans are a little fed up waiting to get to the "level playing field".
What everybody should remember is at least we are in with fighting chance of getting there.
Other than Man U and those current sitting above us in the league, there in no one better equipped to improve over the coming years.
 
Generally I'm on your side here, but I will say for those a little irritated with the transfer window, I can completely understand their frustration. We didn't really buy that well considering we had CL football on offer. I'm not saying necessarily that we could go out and buy the very best, but aside from Wanyama, the others have very much been underwhelming.

Willing to give Janssen time - it hasn't really worked for him yet. These things happen, and it is always a calculated risk when opting for a player with less experience.
Nkoudou - Not exactly pushing the first XI right now and hasn't really showed that he can be a real fixture in our side yet. Again willing to give him time.
Sissoko - I have never been a fan of this signing. We should have gone for Mane or even Wijnaldum. Especially when we signed Sissoko for this much money.

I think both Janssen and Nkoudou have both shown signs of potential. Sissoko not so much. Again the media and now some of the fans are making a big thing about the £30M. Forgetting the fact that it's split 6m a year over his 5 year contract and we only pay it whilst he's a Spurs player. So if we terminated his contract at the end of the season he's only cost us 6M (obviously we would sell, and probably for a profit). Although I agree, from the outset my first thoughts were 'he's not the typical Poch type player, bit worried he won't fit in'
 
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We made it into the Champions League and we bought Sissoko, Wanyama, Janssen & Nkoudu. We could have signed them even if we didnt get into the CL. We should have gone out and tried to get a better standard of player. CL is meant to be an attraction for the bigger players.

We didnt buy well but it is what it is, we cant spend the money, we just need to work with what we have now.

We are struggling because not one player is a stand out this season. An example, Eriksen wasnt great for the majority of last season but other players round him were, Kane, Ali etc. He was going under the radar. This season he is terrible and so is everyone else.
 
We made it into the Champions League and we bought Sissoko, Wanyama, Janssen & Nkoudu. We could have signed them even if we didnt get into the CL. We should have gone out and tried to get a better standard of player. CL is meant to be an attraction for the bigger players.

We didnt buy well but it is what it is, we cant spend the money, we just need to work with what we have now.

We are struggling because not one player is a stand out this season. An example, Eriksen wasnt great for the majority of last season but other players round him were, Kane, Ali etc. He was going under the radar. This season he is terrible and so is everyone else.

The problem is rarely the transfer fee, its the wages - we pay high transfer fees and they get written off periodically to suit our finances (you can't do that with wages as its a regular expenditure you can't capitalise)

For example is rumoured to be on anywhere between £100k and £150k a week!!! He is a very good player but hasn't won anything of note and would be on more than anyone in our whole squad!!!!!

Our wage bill is over a £1m a week less than Arsenal for example

We dont have the income to pay those wages on a fixed contract without greater revenue and that won't happen until the new stadium
 
Money is one thing but when our squad IMO has been weakened by transfers then I can't completely accept the point. Chadli and Townsend are two players which offered us chances created and goals. Compared to them, although he has improved, we have the liability of Llamela. Never sure if he's about to do something brilliant or petulant and get sent off. Then we have £30m sissoko. Why oh why!!!
After two full seasons we are now seeing pochetinos squad. I think in the attacking 1/3rd it looks worse now than it has done.
Lamela a liability? Are you serious? How many times has he been sent off? I can tell you that: 0, zip, zero, never!!
 
Money is one thing but when our squad IMO has been weakened by transfers then I can't completely accept the point. Chadli and Townsend are two players which offered us chances created and goals. Compared to them, although he has improved, we have the liability of Llamela. Never sure if he's about to do something brilliant or petulant and get sent off. Then we have £30m sissoko. Why oh why!!!
After two full seasons we are now seeing pochetinos squad. I think in the attacking 1/3rd it looks worse now than it has done.
Then we have Dier £5m...Alli £5m...Toby £11m...Wany...£13m...

It could always be better.....but at worst new players are bought in in good faith.

Its hardly like my Mrs at the races, picking an old nag because it has a pretty face or endearing name.
 
I accept it, mate - difficult not to accept it, really, since my opinion on the matter isn't worth a damn. ;) However, it will continually disappoint me, is all - for me, I fell in love with the Tottenham Hotspur that we *aspire* to be, that we strive to live up to. I fell in love with a side that embodied swashbuckling style, aggression, ambition, relentless innovation and a drive to never let the mundane interfere with the glorious, wherever and whenever they played. I fell in love with Danny Blanchflower and Bill Nic's paternal admonishments from the past, floated down through history and emblazoned today on the grand blue and white hoardings around the Lane.

I know, deep down, that Levy probably shares that love, and that ambition - Poch possibly at least shares the latter. But it will never cease to disappoint me that, in the present moment, we choose to ignore the real meaning that those hoardings are trying to convey while still putting them up there and defining ourselves by them - and, equally, it disappoints me that a man like Poch, who has *everything* still to prove in the wider footballing world, doesn't buy in to that as wholly as he is capable of doing. Trophies are what this club is built upon, it's what separates us from the chancers like West Ham who also pretend to our status as innovators and cultural touchstones in English footballing history - we followed our principles *and* have the rich history to show for it. We have opportunities every year to go for more such foundational moments. And I can't be convinced that our continual refusal to do so is beneficial to us - thus, I'll always be disappointed. I accept it, because that's the way the club has decided to go. But I'll continually be disappointed by it, and by every manager that decides to follow the zeitgeist and place league results over our shots at ending our growing trophy drought. :(

Ah @DubaiSpur you really are the best. On Saturday evening you split yourself open and let it all spill out. Bang on about this, bang on about that.....a wounded soldier. The next day, you're reflective and back to your best. You do write some wonderful stuff. (something in SN&V the other day was epic). Thought provoking. Heartfelt.

My connection with Tottenham is similar to yours, i love what we represent, i love our tradition and i love the way we try to do things the right way.

The way we are trying to bridge the gap, the way we are trying to push things forward, the plans we have are encased in those qualities. It is business as well, of course it is, we are talking a big project and big numbers. But it is the entrance to another 100 years of THFC.

Thats why i'm happy that Levy is on board and Poch as well. Levy hopes Poch is our Wenger and when it comes to business and delivering then Levy is the man to have in your corner.(i know he's kicked your cat at some point:))

Im fully bought in. So much so that i cut them some slack, dont sweat the small stuff, knowing that the bigger picture is all they care about, achieving objectives and pushing things forward. None of those objectives are trophies, star signings, or high wages. And d'you know what that's sad, it severely detracts from what week to week football is about, the guts and the glory. That is stolen from me at the moment because i have signed up to the bigger picture (although its not like we're sh1t;)).

To bookend this with another war analogy......it's like i'm in the helicopter and some of you guys are down there in the trenches, gaining 100yds one week, losing 50yds the next, taking flak, suffering shellshock, trying to make sense of it. Hop in the helicopter and so much of the daily battle falls away, there is a bigger picture....look to the horizon, we dont have to do much more than we're doing now (and we're doing very well considering), it could drag on for 5 years or more BUT as i said before this is the next 100 years of Tottenham Hotspur we are talking about.

My only fear is, that if, no WHEN we get there it better be f*cking worth it.
 
The problem is rarely the transfer fee, its the wages - we pay high transfer fees and they get written off periodically to suit our finances (you can't do that with wages as its a regular expenditure you can't capitalise)

For example is rumoured to be on anywhere between £100k and £150k a week!!! He is a very good player but hasn't won anything of note and would be on more than anyone in our whole squad!!!!!

Our wage bill is over a £1m a week less than Arsenal for example

We dont have the income to pay those wages on a fixed contract without greater revenue and that won't happen until the new stadium

Spot on
 
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