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Our fans

Spursman said:
I think people have finally realised whatever we do we can never be a top top team.

When we get close we end up selling our best players because they want to go. We dont have the money to compete at the top.

So people come along for a day out now.

Ive been going for the last 15 years and its only now that im starting to calm down a bit. Football just gives me grief and im not losing my temper over it anymore. I just have to think whatever we do we wont be a top top team without BIG money.

Football is kinda dead now. Not the same as it used to be.

sorry to be so negative but i think deep down people are starting to get fed up
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I know what you mean.

But it's all the more reason to say, "fudge it, I'm here to have fun; I'm gonna sing regardless".
 
Jurgen the German said:
Not only is the atmosphere brick, the songs are brick! How many "there's only one" songs do we have? Should only have one!

We used to have some original songs: "posh spice is a slapper, she wears a wonderbra. And when she's shagging Beckham, she thinks of Ginola."

Think it was Jimmy who said the older fans don't sing as much because they feel they have "done their bit". I see what he was saying, but that's not an excuse. Obviously when you get to a certain age (70's, 80's), you're not going to sing as much, that's a given.

I only hope the atmosphere improves when we move into our new stadium and we have a kop like stand behind the goal.
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Absolutely. Not an excuse. Just an observation.

At 46, I'm no spring chicken. But I'm not growing old gracefully and I continue to sing as much as I can. But I know that few of my peers and elders do likewise.
 
jimmyb said:
You do love a stereotype, don't you?

Perhaps you should get out more and get to know people before commenting.

For starters, the St James' Park atmosphere is, like Anfield's, something of a myth. But even if it wasn't, your theory is based on...........well, nothing of any substance.

You're merely guessing as to the social make up of the St James' Park crowd. For that matter, it appears that you're guessing as to the social make up of the White Hart Lane crowd too. Are there many middle class fans who attend games at White Hart Lane? Certainly. But there are many middle class fans who attend games at St James' Park too. And if there was any substance to your theory, clubs like Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn etc (who really don't attract much by way of middle class support) would be heaving bearpits of noise. But they're not. Quite the opposite.

Even more pertinently, you're guessing as to the supporting habits of middle class and working class fans. As I've already told you, our middle class group of fans is far more vocal and passionate than any of the fans that have sat around us in 20 years of having a season ticket in various parts of the ground.

If there is a distinction to be made about supporting habits, I suspect that age is far more important than class. It's something of a generalisation but, for many long serving fans, there comes a time when they feel that they have done their bit in terms of supporting the team and that it isn't really becoming for them to be singing and jumping around any more. So they stop and leave all that sort of thing to the younger generation of fans. The only problem is that, at White Hart Lane, there are fewer and fewer of those. Two reasons:

1. Limited capacity - many young fans simply can't get tickets because the older fans have them sewn up.
2. Ticket prices - most young fans simply can't afford season tickets at WHL now.

Anyway, let's not take this thread off track. Whatever our fans' background, what's important is that they start to support the team properly once again.
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I'm intrigued by your posts but sorry, unless you can fully back-up the second bolded bit then you are doing the same as the first bolded bit...
 
glorygloryeze said:
I'm intrigued by your posts but sorry, unless you can fully back-up the second bolded bit then you are doing the same as the first bolded bit...
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Fair enough.

But my point still stands.

It was indeed wrong of me to assume that unfashionable, small city / town clubs like Wigan, Bolton and Blackburn are less likely to attract the kind of fans that spitshine is talking about than a big, glamorous club in a fairly big, upwardly mobile city like Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

However, you'd have to admit that it is perfectly fair to say that it's highly unlikely that those smaller clubs attract a greater proportion of such fans than Saudi Sportswashing Machine. So, if there is consequently at least as high a proportion of working class fans that attend games at those small clubs as attend games at Saudi Sportswashing Machine, whither his claim that it is the very fact of their being working class that leads them to create a better atmosphere? Because, as poor as the atmosphere at WHL now is, it still tinkles on the atmosphere at Wigan, Bolton and Blackburn. According to spitshine, that shouldn't be possible.
 
jimmyb said:
Fair enough.

But my point still stands.

It was indeed wrong of me to assume that unfashionable, small city / town clubs like Wigan, Bolton and Blackburn are less likely to attract the kind of fans that spitshine is talking about than a big, glamorous club in a fairly big, upwardly mobile city like Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

However, you'd have to admit that it is perfectly fair to say that it's highly unlikely that those smaller clubs attract a greater proportion of such fans than Saudi Sportswashing Machine. So, if there is consequently at least as high a proportion of working class fans that attend games at those small clubs as attend games at Saudi Sportswashing Machine, whither his claim that it is the very fact of their being working class that leads them to create a better atmosphere? Because, as poor as the atmosphere at WHL now is, it still tinkles on the atmosphere at Wigan, Bolton and Blackburn. According to spitshine, that shouldn't be possible.
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I think there are a few things that need to be taken into consideration:

1) Following football has become a very costly business nowadays; you'd have to be middle-class by definition imho (or the type of guy/girl who foregoes meals a few times a week on a meagre salary to save up and follow the team everywhere). I remember an expose in the mid to late 90s which looked into some hooligans that were caught organising and having rucks in Europe. A lot of these guys were in professional jobs: IT Analysts, Bank Managers, Solicitors. From then the idea that all hooligans were just postmen (or other professionas seen as 'working class') on a day out etc was shown to be largely false. In fact it could be said that football allows many of the middle to upper classes in this country to go into an arena where they can let out some pent-up testosterone and 'act working class'...but perhaps i'm digressing a bit ....

2) Why would those smaller clubs not attract middle-class fans? In fact why not more than the 'bigger clubs?' It could be argued either way, for example perhaps the smaller crowds are more comfortable, more sociable perhaps to some middle class people? Worth he extra travel even? Just putting it out there...

3) The assumptions about class in the UK need to be disected better I feel: on the whole middle classes (and to a lesser extent upper classes) in this country distinguish themselves as different, not just in terms of wealth, education etc but also in terms of behaviour and demeanour (e.g. showing decorum in certain situations, not wanting to 'rub peoples faces in regard to x or y') and this could be argued to extend to social gatherings and not wanting to 'stand out' or seem 'yobbish' , 'loutish' etc. A football match might be a social situation approached much the same way. Again perhaps I'm making sevral assumptions myself here

4) On the whole I feel northerners are more naturally expressive in larger groups than southerners....that is before the drink kicks in

Shoot me (but label the bullets with reasons...);)
 
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Rorschach said:
Really? I'm very surprised to hear that. I haven't seen anything negative on here nor the Fighting **** (obviously). I think 1882 are showing the way forward if you ask me.
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billyiddo said:
the only criticism i saw was for the use of the word 'Ultra' not what they were actually doing - seems they took it on board though, hence the name change
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I saw it on the various forums. It wasn't an issue with the name at all, it was seen as embarrassing to do that at a youth game - by some. Shows you can't win. People complain when you don't support and complain when you do support.
 
The last time I recall there being a really great atmosphere was at the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game in February (?), I think it was because it felt like a weight was lifted off our shoulders, and we were clear in 3rd place and nothing could go wrong, we were scoring goals and winning so it felt like nothing could go wrong and so the pent up energy was kind of unleashed. Then of course it was downhill from there.

I think we need to get on a run of good games, I think we need to really hammer someone at home, and the atmosphere might come back. People also need to stop worrying about top 4 and the results our rivals get. This is a long term project now, I'm happy to support it and give it the time it needs. People need to forget about the pressure and stress of getting in the top 4 and just enjoy the football IMO.
 
Spursman said:
I think people have finally realised whatever we do we can never be a top top team.

When we get close we end up selling our best players because they want to go. We dont have the money to compete at the top.

So people come along for a day out now.

Ive been going for the last 15 years and its only now that im starting to calm down a bit. Football just gives me grief and im not losing my temper over it anymore. I just have to think whatever we do we wont be a top top team without BIG money.

Football is kinda dead now. Not the same as it used to be.

sorry to be so negative but i think deep down people are starting to get fed up
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I do agree with some of your points but not all of them.

(1) I still believe that we can be a top team again, we have made great strides over the last few years and once the new stadium is built we will once again be able to compete with the rest. After supporting our team for over 50 years i refuse to believe that we can not do that.

(2) As for football being dead, well i have no love for what has happened to it over the last decade or so. I have no interest in the England side anymore and the greed, cheating, that has entered our game has turned me off a lot of it. i hate the way that supporters winge about refs, other teams and the way they boo and slag off their own players at the first sign of a mistake, just because they play and win ar FIFA, X-Box games they think the game is easy and want immediate results all the time. However Spurs are part of me and always will be, i wish i could turn that love/hate off but i can not .So i will continue to support my team and will sing my head off at the games, i will tell the dingdongheads who boo and slag of the team, players, managers at games just what macarons they really are.

(3) As for being fed up, well see my points above for the things that tinkle me off. If fans are fed up to the point that they boo the things they are supposed to be supporters of well we as a team and the game as as a whole are better off without them.
 
People also need to stop worrying about top 4 and the results our rivals get. This is a long term project now, I'm happy to support it and give it the time it needs. People need to forget about the pressure and stress of getting in the top 4 and just enjoy the football IMO.

A great sentiment but hard to do. Unfortunately I get a huge kick when our rivals fail - even if I would be far happier as an individual if I was indifferent to their successes. You are right though: we should just try to enjoy the season where-ever it takes us, and accept that it is (as so many are at the Lane) "an interesting season of transition".
 
The last time i can remember proper and loud sustained singing was the last 20-30 mins of the 0-0 Wigan home game in the '2 points from 8 games' season. Was in the south upper, the 'we are tottenham, super tottenham' chant was loud and constant. Haven't heard anything like that since.
 
parklane1 said:
I do agree with some of your points but not all of them.

(1) I still believe that we can be a top team again, we have made great strides over the last few years and once the new stadium is built we will once again be able to compete with the rest. After supporting our team for over 50 years i refuse to believe that we can not do that.

(2) As for football being dead, well i have no love for what has happened to it over the last decade or so. I have no interest in the England side anymore and the greed, cheating, that has entered our game has turned me off a lot of it. i hate the way that supporters winge about refs, other teams and the way they boo and slag off their own players at the first sign of a mistake, just because they play and win ar FIFA, X-Box games they think the game is easy and want immediate results all the time. However Spurs are part of me and always will be, i wish i could turn that love/hate off but i can not .So i will continue to support my team and will sing my head off at the games, i will tell the dingdongheads who boo and slag of the team, players, managers at games just what macarons they really are.

(3) As for being fed up, well see my points above for the things that tinkle me off. If fans are fed up to the point that they boo the things they are supposed to be supporters of well we as a team and the game as as a whole are better off without them.
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No offence mate, but Arsenal haven't managed to since they moved to the Emirates. If anything, they've gone backwards. They get top 4 every season and have come close to winning the league a couple of times, but they can't compete in the transfer market with the big 3. Sorry to be bleak, but our youth system is poor for the most part, and we won't have the luxury of spending £50m per transfer window as we have a stadium to pay for.

The only way I can see us challenging for the big trophies is if we get a sugar daddy.
 
I noticed the ****s were out in force again at HT today. Their booing got a special mention on the BBC. They must be so proud of themselves.
 
Nutter-Naylor said:
People are entitled to boo of course just like i am entitled to think they are ****s.
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Of course. For the record, and I'm fully aware that for all you know I could be trumping, I don't boo. I think the only time I half booed was walking out of the stand after Jon Macken scored the winner for City in the 3-0 up 3-4 down.

But how the hell you could stay silent after that first half showing I'll never know. What if the players genuinely didn't know they played badly? Would silence get that across to them? If I was booed off I'd think to myself 'fudge me I've gotta play better second half I don't want a repeat of that'
 
Roy1983 said:
Of course. For the record, and I'm fully aware that for all you know I could be trumping, I don't boo. I think the only time I half booed was walking out of the stand after Jon Macken scored the winner for City in the 3-0 up 3-4 down.

But how the hell you could stay silent after that first half showing I'll never know. What if the players genuinely didn't know they played badly? Would silence get that across to them? If I was booed off I'd think to myself 'fudge me I've gotta play better second half I don't want a repeat of that'
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At half time?!?!?! He changed it and we won. And he didn't change because of the booing. It's just a lack of patience and more importantly a lack of class. PLus it couldn't be more damaging for the team when we need them the most!
 
GrimsbyYid said:
At half time?!?!?! He changed it and we won. And he didn't change because of the booing. It's just a lack of patience and more importantly a lack of class. PLus it couldn't be more damaging for the team when we need them the most!
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I'm not condoning booing. Are you suggesting that the people who boo are beer guzzling working class people whereas upper class folk wouldn't dare boo?
 
Roy1983 said:
I'm not condoning booing. Are you suggesting that the people who boo are beer guzzling working class people whereas upper class folk wouldn't dare boo?
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Where in what I just said even hinted at that?! Because I mentioned class? Class and social class are two completely unrelated things
 
GrimsbyYid said:
Where in what I just said even hinted at that?! Because I mentioned class? Class and social class are two completely unrelated things
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Fair enough. So you consider yourself to be classier than a fan that boo's? I'd stop digging if I were you lol.
 
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