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Our defence next season

Dawson got roasted again today for pace, I am sorry his days are coming up as numbered, as for Rose, Sunderland is yours if you want it boyo because I am afraid you are in no way good enough.

If Kaboul could get anywhere near fit enough for a season then him and Vert would be up there as the best in the league, LB and Walker and thats a tasty back four. Protect that with Sandro and bobs your uncle...
 
The funniest thing about watching Dawson is when he realises that he ****ed up and is about to cost us a goal. Then he panics and puts in a idiotic yellow card tackle at best. I've shared this with my brother and now we can't help but laugh every time it happens.
 
Do you think Dawson is good enough? Do you think Rose is? Do you think Kaboul will regain fitness to become a regular starter? Do you think Chiriches is ready to be a starter?

Or are you saying that we should look to sign 3 new starting defenders for our back 4 come the summer and just try to get them all working together by the time the seasons starts, get used to the league for recruits from abroad and just cross our fingers that they're all good enough?

Well I never mentioned any other defenders in my post so I couldn't really have said all that stuff. If you want to discuss all our defenders that's fine.

Vertoghen is easily our best defender when on song, but since the turn of the year or maybe it coincided with AVB's departure I think there has been a perceptible change in attitude. I don't know what is going on his head, only he knows that, but if I was to guess I would say he is disappointed at the football being played ahead of him and instead of showing leadership he is displaying petulance and frustration. I would rather someone who gives it everything than someone who looks like he doesn't want to be here any more. Of course I'm trying to read his mood and guess at all this but that's my read on it.

As for the other defenders, I would think there is probably a question mark over them all bar maybe Walker.

I share the boards concerns over Rose's quality. I would get someone in to take his spot or at least compete for it. I think Dawson should not be an automatic starter any more for Spurs, but he is a great servant to the club and deserves to be shown a little loyalty. He will suit a particular type of opponent too so I would keep him as a squadie. Chiriches looks to have a bit about him but needs a bit more time to adapt to the PL. I think he'll be a good addition. Kaboul, well who knows? A great defender but the people in the club will need to make that call.

So the way I see it is that our defence will need a few additions irrespective of selling or keeping Vertoghen. Yes, selling Vertoghen will add to the churn but what good is he if he plays badly and wants away.
 
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Well I never mentioned any other defenders in my post so I couldn't really have said all that stuff. If you want to discuss all our defenders that's fine.

Vertoghen is easily our best defender when on song, but since the turn of the year or maybe it coincided with AVB's departure I think there has been a perceptible change in attitude. I don't know what is going on his head, only he knows that, but if I was to guess I would say he is disappointed at the football being played ahead of him and instead of showing leadership he is displaying petulance and frustration. I would rather someone who gives it everything than someone who looks like he doesn't want to be here any more. Of course I'm trying to read his mood and guess at all this but that's my read on it.

As for the other defenders, I would think there is probably a question mark over them all bar maybe Walker.

I share the boards concerns over Rose's quality. I would get someone in to take his spot or at least compete for it. I think Dawson should not be an automatic starter any more for Spurs, but he is a great servant to the club and deserves to be shown a little loyalty. He will suit a particular type of opponent too so I would keep him as a squadie. Chiriches looks to have a bit about him but needs a bit more time to adapt to the PL. I think he'll be a good addition. Kaboul, well who knows? A great defender but the people in the club will need to make that call.

So the way I see it is that our defence will need a few additions irrespective of selling or keeping Vertoghen. Yes, selling Vertoghen will add to the churn but what good is he if he plays badly and wants away.

The thread title is clear enough "our defence next season". Stating that we should sell Vertonghen who I agree is "easily our best defender when on song" without putting that into context of the entire defence seems like a very limited view.

I don't think Vertonghen has been as bad as some people are claiming, even though not at his best I still think he's comfortably better than both Dawson and Rose have been in recent months. Trying to replace 3 starters out of a back 4 in a single summer seems very optimistic at best, quite possibly outright naive. We have a now PL experienced centre back that's very good when on form, had the rest of the back 4 been in place and replacing only this one out of form player I would have seen your side of the argument a lot more positive. But looking to replace 3 defenders in one window, knowing full well that we like most teams are hit and miss in the transfer window, with no obvious clear PL proven options to sign up for a reasonable fee in my mind at least. That just looks like creating problems rather than fixing them. Even City and Chelsea with their resources have struggled to find the right solution for those defensive positions, how likely is that we'll succeed looking for 2-3 starters in a single window?

Seems much more likely to me that we can make Vertonghen happy again by signing 1-2 starters that are better than the players he's playing next to now.

Several of our (imo) properly successful defenders in recent years have taken time to adjust after we signed them. Walker, Kaboul and Ekotto. Even superman King needed time, the obvious exceptions are the older signings like Gallas and Woodgate that were available partly because of their injury history and age. Like I said I would really like to see a similar signing being made, but we can't expect to find 3 players like that, and if the age/injury history is an issue with anyone we do find there's a limit to how much we can depend on such players. Most likely most signings we make will take time to get up to the level we want to see. Perhaps we can find one, optimistically perhaps we can even find two, but can we find 3 defenders that will step right in and perform?

People have seen Walker go from "apparently young player of the season", to "dog****" to very valuable. We've seen Ekotto go from "promising" to "get the **** out" to being a very useful player. We've seen Kaboul go from "promising, but not ready yet" to actually being sold and then re-signed and prove himself very useful. Vertonghen has shown how good he can be, a bit of a setback, some frustration being shown at a frustrating time and not consistently living up to his own high standards set last season and the reaction is "get rid"?

I just don't get it at all.
 
The thread title is clear enough "our defence next season". Stating that we should sell Vertonghen who I agree is "easily our best defender when on song" without putting that into context of the entire defence seems like a very limited view.

I don't think Vertonghen has been as bad as some people are claiming, even though not at his best I still think he's comfortably better than both Dawson and Rose have been in recent months. Trying to replace 3 starters out of a back 4 in a single summer seems very optimistic at best, quite possibly outright naive. We have a now PL experienced centre back that's very good when on form, had the rest of the back 4 been in place and replacing only this one out of form player I would have seen your side of the argument a lot more positive. But looking to replace 3 defenders in one window, knowing full well that we like most teams are hit and miss in the transfer window, with no obvious clear PL proven options to sign up for a reasonable fee in my mind at least. That just looks like creating problems rather than fixing them. Even City and Chelsea with their resources have struggled to find the right solution for those defensive positions, how likely is that we'll succeed looking for 2-3 starters in a single window?

Seems much more likely to me that we can make Vertonghen happy again by signing 1-2 starters that are better than the players he's playing next to now.

Several of our (imo) properly successful defenders in recent years have taken time to adjust after we signed them. Walker, Kaboul and Ekotto. Even superman King needed time, the obvious exceptions are the older signings like Gallas and Woodgate that were available partly because of their injury history and age. Like I said I would really like to see a similar signing being made, but we can't expect to find 3 players like that, and if the age/injury history is an issue with anyone we do find there's a limit to how much we can depend on such players. Most likely most signings we make will take time to get up to the level we want to see. Perhaps we can find one, optimistically perhaps we can even find two, but can we find 3 defenders that will step right in and perform?

People have seen Walker go from "apparently young player of the season", to "dog****" to very valuable. We've seen Ekotto go from "promising" to "get the **** out" to being a very useful player. We've seen Kaboul go from "promising, but not ready yet" to actually being sold and then re-signed and prove himself very useful. Vertonghen has shown how good he can be, a bit of a setback, some frustration being shown at a frustrating time and not consistently living up to his own high standards set last season and the reaction is "get rid"?

I just don't get it at all.

I'm sorry mate you put plenty of words in my mouth with your initial reply and now you're your trying to justify it with this one. My comment was limited to one player and did not require more context than that.

I can forgive mistakes not poor attitude. If Vertoghen's heart is not in it, sell him is my view but as I say I'm not privy to what is going on in his mind so maybe it is something that can be remedied. I think I'll leave it there.
 
I'm sorry mate you put plenty of words in my mouth with your initial reply and now you're your trying to justify it with this one. My comment was limited to one player and did not require more context than that.

I can forgive mistakes not poor attitude. If Vertoghen's heart is not in it, sell him is my view but as I say I'm not privy to what is going on in his mind so maybe it is something that can be remedied. I think I'll leave it there.

If you look at my initial reply you might notice one or two question marks. I was trying to get you to expand on your opinion on this topic and putting your opinion into context. Not sure how good transfer decision can possibly be made without looking at individual players in the context of the entire team. The thread title almost by definition asks for context.

I agree that we can't be privy to what's going on in his mind. I think people are reading a lot into what is a negative body language.
 
We make far too many assumptions as to what players think to be fair. Vertonghen could be more disappointed in himself than any of us in him. We kow he is a far higher calibre player then what he has shown this year but we are a faltering stuttering team right now.
 
I searched for "Fonte" and found this thread from 2012

Jesus Christ, we were looking at Dawson, Kaboul, Chiriches, people saying Lloris and Verts were on their way out, people saying Rose should be chopped into pieces and fed to Sandro... we have come a long, long way in 4 years.
 
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