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Our defence next season

he would be happy as Larry alongside Kompany ;)

I'm almost certain he would.

Both Vertonghen and Dembele play for one of the most exciting young international sides in Europe at the moment, coming from that and from Ajax (for Vertonghen) and now find yourself playing a match like today must be outstandingly frustrating.
 
I'm almost certain he would.

Both Vertonghen and Dembele play for one of the most exciting young international sides in Europe at the moment, coming from that and from Ajax (for Vertonghen) and now find yourself playing a match like today must be outstandingly frustrating.

Not to mention being arguably our best player and being shunted out of position onto the left due to our awful management of the squad, a position that he explicitly said he didn't want to play on signing for the club.
 
It is possible that Verts and Lloris might be off but I do not think that it is likely. I think that people are reading too much into one look from Verts. It could have meant anything.

He might have trapped wind. I know i do.

On a more serious note I am sure the reason we have a Director of Football is so we have a seamless transition when a player or two leave. One player I feel we should sign for the future is Joe Gomez at Charlton this kid will be an absolute star.

The lad Lescallas at Forest looks ok and we even get lucky and include Dawson in the deal.
 
I'm almost certain he would.

Both Vertonghen and Dembele play for one of the most exciting young international sides in Europe at the moment, coming from that and from Ajax (for Vertonghen) and now find yourself playing a match like today must be outstandingly frustrating.

Ajax have plenty of crap games they got done 3-0 at home on Thursday, buggered my whole betting slip.
 
Make Vertonghen captain, give him some responsibility, get him leading the line. Does he get on with Vermaelen? Heard he is looking for a move, is he worth a cheeky bid??
 
Make Vertonghen captain, give him some responsibility, get him leading the line. Does he get on with Vermaelen? Heard he is looking for a move, is he worth a cheeky bid??

Agreed, Vertonghen for captain would make me happy. Him or Sandro.

Wouldn't go near Vermaelen though.
 
I'm almost certain he would.

Both Vertonghen and Dembele play for one of the most exciting young international sides in Europe at the moment, coming from that and from Ajax (for Vertonghen) and now find yourself playing a match like today must be outstandingly frustrating.

Good thing that no other tems have games like that, right?

I mean Emirates Marketing Project didn't draw 0-0 with Norwich? Scrape a result v Stoke? And lose against Sunderland? And that's just one example.

Any criticism should be aimed at his letting his head drop when we're up against it. All teams have bad games and it's how players react in those scenarios which provides a good test of character.
 
Good thing that no other tems have games like that, right?

I mean Emirates Marketing Project didn't draw 0-0 with Norwich? Scrape a result v Stoke? And lose against Sunderland? And that's just one example.

Any criticism should be aimed at his letting his head drop when we're up against it. All teams have bad games and it's how players react in those scenarios which provides a good test of character.

Which of our players showed the right character today did you think?
 
I thought, for one, that Lennon kept trying. He worked hard defensively, including making a few vital challenges. He never seemed to let his head go, always working hard and trying to find a way through.

That's what's required in circumstances like today, not audible sighs and looks of disgust.

Vertonghen conceded the penalty against Dnipro. In doing so, the rest of the team could have given him a look but, as far as I'm aware, they didn't.

Teams and players both individually, and collectively, endure poor performances. What's the point in giving that look, instead pull socks up and get on with it. Work tirelessly to achieve the end result.

Today far too few players gave the right effort or attitude. I was very unhappy with Paulinho too. For the goal, he was far too static and didn't help his team mate. Paulinho can be excellent but today he went missing.

And before anyone attacks Lannon's inward runs. The runs appear to be part of Sherwood's tactics. Why? Who knows.
 
If we can keep Verts and Lloris then we only really need to sew up the left back poisition (Chiriches joining Jan). Having said that, I do think that maybe we will need another first choice centre back even if Vertonghen does stay on.

Do we look at EPL proven players like Lovren or Fonte at Southampton perhaps or do we go for foreign unknown players who may take time to settle (or might not settle at all)?? I don't know enough about the league's in Europe to make an informed decision, perhaps some of our other posters know of some.

I'd go with

-----------------Begovic--------------------
Walker-----??????------Chiriches-------Umtiti
 
I thought, for one, that Lennon kept trying. He worked hard defensively, including making a few vital challenges. He never seemed to let his head go, always working hard and trying to find a way through.

That's what's required in circumstances like today, not audible sighs and looks of disgust.

Vertonghen conceded the penalty against Dnipro. In doing so, the rest of the team could have given him a look but, as far as I'm aware, they didn't.

Teams and players both individually, and collectively, endure poor performances. What's the point in giving that look, instead pull socks up and get on with it. Work tirelessly to achieve the end result.

Today far too few players gave the right effort or attitude. I was very unhappy with Paulinho too. For the goal, he was far too static and didn't help his team mate. Paulinho can be excellent but today he went missing.

And before anyone attacks Lannon's inward runs. The runs appear to be part of Sherwood's tactics. Why? Who knows.

Speaks volumes that the players we're happy about in terms of attitude are the players that quietly go about their business doing their own thing.
 
Sell Vertoghen. Wrong Attitude. There I said it.

Do you think Dawson is good enough? Do you think Rose is? Do you think Kaboul will regain fitness to become a regular starter? Do you think Chiriches is ready to be a starter?

Or are you saying that we should look to sign 3 new starting defenders for our back 4 come the summer and just try to get them all working together by the time the seasons starts, get used to the league for recruits from abroad and just cross our fingers that they're all good enough?
 
Speaks volumes that the players we're happy about in terms of attitude are the players that quietly go about their business doing their own thing.

What's going to get results? Sulking or keeping head down and keep playing?

I don't want players to be happy about their predicament. I want players to be working to improve the team and themselves.

If that's wrong, can you explain why players who sulk never achieve the highest results that their talents suggest that they could achieve.

Berbatov and Anelka could have had greater careers if they put work rate up there with ability. As it was, their ability helped them high but not as high as may have been possible.
 
What's going to get results? Sulking or keeping head down and keep playing?

I don't want players to be happy about their predicament. I want players to be working to improve the team and themselves.

If that's wrong, can you explain why players who sulk never achieve the highest results that their talents suggest that they could achieve.

Berbatov and Anelka could have had greater careers if they put work rate up there with ability. As it was, their ability helped them high but not as high as may have been possible.

You're equating "sulking" to work rate, not sure if that's right. Tevez and Suarez sulk like little bitches at times, but they work hard and their whiny attitude helps their teams.

Have you ever seen anyone look as sulky and whiny as Christiano Ronaldo? But it seems he uses that pain to push himself to improve day by day.

What kind of attitude do you think Vertonghen has had that has given him the touch and ability on the ball he has, one that has seen him keep working hard to improve or one where he hasn't? Now look at some of the players that's spent a lot of time at the club... The words stagnation and unfulfilled potential unfortunately comes to mind a bit too often.

What was it Vertonghen didn't do to deserve to be called someone who doesn't keep playing and doesn't keep working? He attempted the most passes of any of our players, he did occasionally get forward although understandably not that often considering we had no proper defensive midfielder, Rose who likes getting forward at left back and Dawson who's uncomfortable defending against counter attacks as the other centre back.

Jan Vertonghen will make sure that he doesn't spend his career at a club where this kind of limp performance leading to a weak surrender happens too often. It frustrates him too much, it visibly and obviously hurts him. Some of the "head down, keep playing" lads have done just the opposite.

Don't mistake my frustration as a generalization that keeping your head down and keeping up playing your best is a bad thing, it's a fine attitude. But when we're not performing as a team, when we're not at the races it doesn't help lift anyone, it doesn't change anything. At best it has a neutral effect. It's been the same for ages. Gallas came in with a different attitude, with a bit of a reputation as a sulking moaning player, and although he wasn't made club captain Redknapp gave him the armband within months iirc. Partly because of injuries yes, but he was clearly a leader. I wish he'd been younger. The group of players that we all like because they're likeable were apparently surprised to see Parker enter the dressing room and take charge straight away. He wasn't the greatest, but he got some **** done and apparently some people listened when he talked and responded well for a period at least. In the end it wasn't enough, but it was something.

Now Vertonghen isn't the mirror image of Gallas or Parker in terms of attitude or anything. But there's a part of me that really thinks the nice guy attitude we've seen in recent years from King, Dawson, Lennon, Friedel, Jenas, Modric, Defoe etc just isn't enough. There's a glass ceiling there. And I think the pained look in Vertonghen's face tells a story, a story of someone who won't stand for it. We can build around that or we can shift him out for not fitting in, for not just keeping his head down.

/rant (and yes, I realize this post is ranty, I could probably have worded myself better, only part of this is a direct response to you El G - absolutely nothing personal meant. I'm frustrated too and the attitude we've shown for years and years is starting to get to me, I see Vertonghen as a potential part of the solution.)
 
We need a new left back and a LB backup. We also need a RB backup, Naughton is not good enough. Oh and a CB to partner Verts, as Dawson doesn't cut it and Kaboul is too injury prone.
 
If we can keep Verts and Lloris then we only really need to sew up the left back poisition (Chiriches joining Jan). Having said that, I do think that maybe we will need another first choice centre back even if Vertonghen does stay on.

Do we look at EPL proven players like Lovren or Fonte at Southampton perhaps or do we go for foreign unknown players who may take time to settle (or might not settle at all)?? I don't know enough about the league's in Europe to make an informed decision, perhaps some of our other posters know of some.

I'd go with

-----------------Begovic--------------------
Walker-----??????------Chiriches-------Umtiti

Umtiti plays centre half.
 
We need a new left back and a LB backup. We also need a RB backup, Naughton is not good enough. Oh and a CB to partner Verts, as Dawson doesn't cut it and Kaboul is too injury prone.

Ricardo Rodriguez from Wolfsburg.
 
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