***** OMT TOTTENHAM VS CHELSKI *****

[SpurMeUp]

He said after the game that we played well, so he clearly sanctions the kind of lazy, reckless flicks and back heels in our own box and stupid tackling, and not being defensively sound or solid. 4th on goal difference when you’re 11th in the table really doesn’t mean anything. It’s not all Ange’s fault, but he really isn’t helping himself with the setup of the team at the moment.

Well without two brain dead challenges we’d have won so yes we did play okay against a good side.

Anyone who thinks Ange wants his players to make such fouls in the box has obviously lost the plot.

No way is Postecoglou going to throw Sarr and Bissouma under the bus. They will know. And we are already stretched without Bentancur.

Posters trying to tie Postecoglou to those two crazy challenges and pens is a bit pathetic.

 

[Mikey10]

Well without two brain dead challenges we’d have won so yes we did play okay against a good side.

Anyone who thinks Ange wants his players to make such fouls in the box has obviously lost the plot.

No way is Postecoglou going to throw Sarr and Bissouma under the bus. They will know. And we are already stretched without Bentancur.

Posters trying to tie Postecoglou to those two crazy challenges and pens is a bit pathetic.

We currently play in a way which encourages recklessness imo.

Fact is, though, since we played Chelsea at home last season we have lost more games than we have won. Yesterday was simply one game in what is now a fairly well-established pattern.

 

[SpurMeUp]

We currently play in a way which encourages recklessness imo.

So Biss and Sarr wouldn’t make such bad challenges in the box under different systems? Such badly judged tackles don’t occur under more pragmatic managers? Of. Purse they fuking do. What utter nonsense!

Fact is, though, since we played Chelsea at home last season we have lost more games than we have won. Yesterday was simply one game in what is now a fairly well-established pattern.

I don’t believe anyone thinks we are where we should be. We need to improve. But do you want pragmatism and mediocrity? Or to setup in a way that can win and dominate?

Of course the latter setup is harder to implement. It doesn’t just click into place without time and hard work.

If fans don’t have the metal to see it through we’ll just go back to pragmatic mediocrity.

 

[Mrs Vert]

He is technically the bridge between Levy and Lange, so a foot in both camps, but the one in the business camp fits much better.

Which Levy will love.....makes even more sense now

 

[Baleforce]

Well without two brain dead challenges we’d have won so yes we did play okay against a good side.

Anyone who thinks Ange wants his players to make such fouls in the box has obviously lost the plot.

No way is Postecoglou going to throw Sarr and Bissouma under the bus. They will know. And we are already stretched without Bentancur.

Posters trying to tie Postecoglou to those two crazy challenges and pens is a bit pathetic.

They had plenty of other chances too, Palmer missed a sitter and Forster made a couple of great stops.

 

[Mrs Vert]

Perhaps part of that not wanting to throw the players under the bus at a difficult time when we're struggling with fitness, availability, options and performances/results.

But I also think that performance was better than I expected, definitely better than I feared. It wasn't great, but it was decent.

Particularly after losing Romero again early on we were always going to have spells of real struggles in that game.

And being at least decent is what we are surprised with!! Man our expectations have really taken a hit!!
.I agree with you by the way, cos I thought we would do naff all

 

[Mrs Vert]

He has not stepped aside from what I can see. He has implemented layers designed to offer protection on all fronts to all sides. Here's hoping he stands firmly behind the structure he has implemented.

I dont believe he will, mainly cos I have him down as a control freak. And even those people can't help but still put their ore in

 

[SpurMeUp]

They had plenty of other chances too, Palmer missed a sitter and Forster made a couple of great stops.

So did we. See the XG.

 

[Baleforce]

So did we. See the XG.

Our problem is how many we give up, not how many we make, that’s what needs fixing, and where seemingly nothing is being done.

 

[Spoonman]

Our problem is how many we give up, not how many we make, that’s what needs fixing, and where seemingly nothing is being done.

Indeed, and it's not just the ones that end up in shots on our goal. Every single time the oppo get down the side and cross the ball it causes carnage even if we do somehow scramble it away. We've been lucky multiple times to not concede more than we have. I close my eyes and wince everytime teams get in that position.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Well without two brain dead challenges we’d have won so yes we did play okay against a good side.

Anyone who thinks Ange wants his players to make such fouls in the box has obviously lost the plot.

No way is Postecoglou going to throw Sarr and Bissouma under the bus. They will know. And we are already stretched without Bentancur.

Posters trying to tie Postecoglou to those two crazy challenges and pens is a bit pathetic.

With what ifs and maybes, we'd win the league every year. Unfortunately, Postecoglou's system does require a lot of intensity, which in turns leads to a lot of injuries and tackles like we've seen yesterday (at least, that's my opinion): when you're on full throttle for the best part of the game, your judgement's often clouded. That's why it's so difficult to score after a 40-yard solo run, for instance.

One possible explanation to his current success compared to other tenures (but I have neither the time nor the inclination to check it out in details) would be that in lesser/less competitive leagues, missing a player or five isn't as damaging as the gap between first team players and subs isn't as big as it is in the Premier League.

Another anlysis I'd be curious to read would a comparison between Postecoglou and Bielsa, who's supposed to be benchmark for that kind of systems.

 

[Baleforce]

Indeed, and it's not just the ones that end up in shots on our goal. Every single time the oppo get down the side and cross the ball it causes carnage even if we do somehow scramble it away. We've been lucky multiple times to not concede more than we have. I close my eyes and wince everytime teams get in that position.

We are so vulnerable after turnovers too, we regularly end up defending 3 on 3’s.

 

[SpurMeUp]

With what ifs and maybes, we'd win the league every year. Unfortunately, Postecoglou's system does require a lot of intensity, which in turns leads to a lot of injuries and tackles like we've seen yesterday (at least, that's my opinion): when you're on full throttle for the best part of the game, your judgement's often clouded. That's why it's so difficult to score after a 40-yard solo run, for instance.

Can you name some other mindless pens we’ve conceded like them? I can’t off the top of my head. We know these players are playing on fumes. We are missing Bentancur.

One possible explanation to his current success compared to other tenures (but I have neither the time nor the inclination to check it out in details) would be that in lesser/less competitive leagues, missing a player or five isn't as damaging as the gap between first team players and subs isn't as big as it is in the Premier League.

There are lots of things you could say are easier in lessor leagues. But you neglect the other side: better players and resources on the upside. Generally I think things do equal out and Postecoglou system should translate.

What is probably different is the attention and pressure. Just as Brighton, Bournemouth managers get more time and space to develop a side, that time seems to be taken away by Spurs fans who want it all now. And don’t have the patience to give a manager space and time.

Another anlysis I'd be curious to read would a comparison between Postecoglou and Bielsa, who's supposed to be benchmark for that kind of systems.

Yes a good comparison. Different characters but similar attacking aspirations.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Well without two brain dead challenges we’d have won so yes we did play okay against a good side.

Anyone who thinks Ange wants his players to make such fouls in the box has obviously lost the plot.

No way is Postecoglou going to throw Sarr and Bissouma under the bus. They will know. And we are already stretched without Bentancur.

Posters trying to tie Postecoglou to those two crazy challenges and pens is a bit pathetic.

What about the other goals and chances we conceded? Penalties aside, do you ever look at us and think we’re going to keep a clean sheet today?

 

[Mikey10]

So Biss and Sarr wouldn’t make such bad challenges in the box under different systems? Such badly judged tackles don’t occur under more pragmatic managers? Of. Purse they fuking do. What utter nonsense!

In your opinion.

My opinion is that those types of challenges are unlikely in a system which doesn't require players to constantly be chasing back towards their own goal, which encourages them to keep the ball and to be much more pragmatic in their approach when they have a 2-0 lead at home, and in which huge gaps aren't left between the lines.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Mikey10]

So did we. See the XG.

 

[Kompakted]

So Biss and Sarr wouldn’t make such bad challenges in the box under different systems? Such badly judged tackles don’t occur under more pragmatic managers? Of. Purse they fuking do. What utter nonsense!


I don’t believe anyone thinks we are where we should be. We need to improve. But do you want pragmatism and mediocrity? Or to setup in a way that can win and dominate?

Of course the latter setup is harder to implement. It doesn’t just click into place without time and hard work.

If fans don’t have the metal to see it through we’ll just go back to pragmatic mediocrity.

I see a lot of posts saying "it takes time to play this way", yet I think back to any manager that has been a success and it was blatantly obvious they were going to make a big difference straight away. Redknapp came in after a mess, imposed a style of playing straight away and with a few additions we finished 4th the next season qualifying for the CL for the first time in our history.

Poch came in after a mess again, 5th first season, 2nd the next having taken about a season to implement "dominate and win".

With these "give him time" posters I'd ask, "time to do what?" Where are we going with this? Is there a team that is successful that plays the way we do? The best comparison I can make is Saudi Sportswashing Machine under Keegan in the 90s....

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Can you name some other mindless pens we’ve conceded like them? I can’t off the top of my head. We know these players are playing on fumes. We are missing Bentancur.

There are lots of things you could say are easier in lessor leagues. But you neglect the other side: better players and resources on the upside. Generally I think things do equal out and Postecoglou system should translate.

What is probably different is the attention and pressure. Just as Brighton, Bournemouth managers get more time and space to develop a side, that time seems to be taken away by Spurs fans who want it all now. And don’t have the patience to give a manager space and time.

Yes a good comparison. Different characters but similar attacking aspirations.

Not necessarily penalties but our defensive players make their fair share of defensive judgements. That said, we had the same problem with Dier who consistently made costly mistakes under Mourinho when the intensity was down a few notches. So it's not black and white and any given situation (even outside football) is often the result of a combination of factors. I don't really have an opinion on this system by the way. I made a quick check and, Celtic apart, Postecoglou win record is roughly 50% wherever he went. So, it seems that he's not doing much worse (or better for that matter) here than everywhere else.

It's definitely an ambitious and entertaining system, whether it wins things is more questionable. The only aspect I'm fairly set on is the need to cut down the injuries. We have too many of these and if we can't cut them down, we'll never get anywhere. If he can get a settled side, it will be easier to form an opinion on the system and his own ability as a manager. If we are permanently missing two or three key players, that means there's a problem somewhere.

Fair point on the lesser leagues.

 

[Mikey10]

I see a lot of posts saying "it takes time to play this way", yet I think back to any manager that has been a success and it was blatantly obvious they were going to make a big difference straight away. Redknapp came in after a mess, imposed a style of playing straight away and with a few additions we finished 4th the next season qualifying for the CL for the first time in our history.

Poch came in after a mess again, 5th first season, 2nd the next having taken about a season to implement "dominate and win".

With these "give him time" posters I'd ask, "time to do what?" Where are we going with this? Is there a team that is successful that plays the way we do? The best comparison I can make is Saudi Sportswashing Machine under Keegan in the 90s....

Yesterday finished it for me as there is zero evidence that we are moving forward. In fact, we are watching players regressing.

I don't think the players - to their credit, actually - have given up, which I worried they might have after the Bournemouth game. But I don't think that they really believe in the system, and they are often unsure of exactly what they should be doing in games - other than trying to constantly attack. That's just not acceptable 18 months in.

 

[billyiddo]

Yesterday finished it for me as there is zero evidence that we are moving forward. In fact, we are watching players regressing.

I don't think the players - to their credit, actually - have given up, which I worried they might have after the Bournemouth game. But I don't think that they really believe in the system, and they are often unsure of exactly what they should be doing in games - other than trying to constantly attack. That's just not acceptable 18 months in.

Said it before but IMV it's this sort of confusion that contributes to the type of basic mistakes we are seeing from players - once tactical instructions are second nature you see less mistakes being made