Omt - Tottenham vs Boro

[elltrev]

My bigger frustration with Conte is that he set us up to defend so deep against a Championship side, for every minute of the entire game. It just let them grow in confidence throughout the game. Surely pressing and putting them under some early pressure was the way to go?

And yes the usual suspects like Winks and Hojbjerg weren’t great. But neither were our better players like Kane, Son, Romero, and Kulu (though it’s early days for him). That almost worries and frustrates me more.

 

[Mcfee]

I’d prefer to forget about this game asap so not going to read the match reports. But in real time I thought their goal was offside while Kane’s was onside. Any conclusions on those? Presumably swept under the carpet. Magic of the cup etc etc.

 

[glasgowspur]

We were tired.
Boro played, 1st, 9th, 12th, 22nd, 26th of feb and ran us off the pitch. One of them against man utd which went to extra time and penalties.
We were three up after 30 mins on Saturday and should have strolled through the rest of the game.
Boro got beaten by the bottom team on Saturday.
Tired should not be an excuse. The championship is a slog and physically draining, but our precious ones are tired.
Boo hoo hoo.

 

[StephenH]

The squad is far too fragile and lacks any depth for rotation.
Kane & Co should have started on bench. But Middlesbrough were a tough outfit and proved it. I thought someone said they have been unbeaten since October?

 

[Legohamster]

My bigger frustration with Conte is that he set us up to defend so deep against a Championship side, for every minute of the entire game. It just let them grow in confidence throughout the game. Surely pressing and putting them under some early pressure was the way to go?

And yes the usual suspects like Winks and Hojbjerg weren’t great. But neither were our better players like Kane, Son, Romero, and Kulu (though it’s early days for him). That almost worries and frustrates me more.

It’s hard not to defend deep when the CM keep losing the ball, no chance to really push out.

 

[glasgowspur]

The squad is far too fragile and lacks any depth for rotation.
Kane & Co should have started on bench. But Middlesbrough were a tough outfit and proved it. I thought someone said they have been unbeaten since October?

They lost twice in feb.
We're just back from the winter break, a break i don't think boro had.
Tiredness should not be an issue.
It's an excuse, nothing else.

 

[Daisuk]

I’d prefer to forget about this game asap so not going to read the match reports. But in real time I thought their goal was offside while Kane’s was onside. Any conclusions on those? Presumably swept under the carpet. Magic of the cup etc etc.

Kane's was definitely onside.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Do goals from crosses count less?
Gutsy wins don't count?
When was our last gutsy big win with Kane on the pitch?
I'm not doubting his ability or application, but lets not kid ourselves that its working or that he is making a difference for us or that we need him to win the big games.

They all count but the point is we didn’t play well in those games, we could have easily lost the city and wolves games. Our last big gutsy win Kane was against city just recently. He can’t do it every single game. The problem is we used to have players like Eriksen who was a match winner, he would regularly pop up with late goals if Kane and Son weren’t on the score sheet. Alli used to when he was good also. We don’t have that anymore. So when Kane and Son don’t play well, we don’t win. I find it strange that people dig them out but big up the players with lesser ability just because they try hard. Countless players past and present get lauded because they run about but let us down with their lack of ability and poor injury records but Kane and Son have the odd bad games and it’s their fault we lose. Probably fair to say neither have had their best seasons but let’s not kid ourselves, we’re mid table with them, we’d be even worse without them.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

I’d prefer to forget about this game asap so not going to read the match reports. But in real time I thought their goal was offside while Kane’s was onside. Any conclusions on those? Presumably swept under the carpet. Magic of the cup etc etc.

I think if there was var and got the lines out both goals would have been disallowed.

But you are right in the commentary they just said kane was just off and the boro player was just onside, but only for their magic narrative.

 

[glasgowspur]

They all count but the point is we didn’t play well in those games, we could have easily lost the city and wolves games. Our last big gutsy win Kane was against city just recently. He can’t do it every single game. The problem is we used to have players like Eriksen who was a match winner, he would regularly pop up with late goals if Kane and Son weren’t on the score sheet. Alli used to when he was good also. We don’t have that anymore. So when Kane and Son don’t play well, we don’t win. I find it strange that people dig them out but big up the players with lesser ability just because they try hard. Countless players past and present get lauded because they run about but let us down with their lack of ability and poor injury records but Kane and Son have the odd bad games and it’s their fault we lose. Probably fair to say neither have had their best seasons but let’s not kid ourselves, we’re mid table with them, we’d be even worse without them.

I'm not digging them out specifically, i have said i would ditch them all.
Others have countered not kane and son, I'm saying them yes them as well.
I'm not questioning ability but mentally they aren't good enough. Any of them.
We can beat city, Liverpool, utd and even Chelsea in the league, but collapse against them in cup or league games at the end of the season.
Its also been pointed out that these teans are better than us and we shouldn't expect to beat them.
Well last year we went out the fa cup to Norwich and this year boro.
We got out played by mura and vitesse.
If they can raise their game against us, why can't we raise our game against the big teams?

 

[braineclipse]

The one positive for me from that otherwise mediocre performance was that in the first half Sessegnon actually looked quite good. I know his assist against Leeds was good play, but this was the first time I have seen why we bought him. Any other positives anyone, other than that "now we can concentrate on the league"??

Sessegnon. Doherty looked decent. Centre backs were mostly fine? Kane looked class for a while as long as he had energy and options. Bergwijn was good when he came on.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

I disagreed with you on this before, but watching tonight you were 100% right.

even if we won, and we could have, we looked knackered — particularly Son, the midfield and Kane to an extent.

Yep we need to spend around £200m to £250m on about 6 or 7 players in the summer.

Depends though if we get the outside investment. If we dont get that and the enic status quo is maintained, then we will instead spend around £75m gross on 4 or 5 players and the much of the same will repeat next season with us mildly more competitive.

 

[braineclipse]

My bigger frustration with Conte is that he set us up to defend so deep against a Championship side, for every minute of the entire game. It just let them grow in confidence throughout the game. Surely pressing and putting them under some early pressure was the way to go?

And yes the usual suspects like Winks and Hojbjerg weren’t great. But neither were our better players like Kane, Son, Romero, and Kulu (though it’s early days for him). That almost worries and frustrates me more.

Any hope of a higher press was not an option when Conte chose basically not to rotate at all for this game and previous games.

Even defending deep, being fairly slow and lacking movement on the ball we clearly lacked energy. No way those players had it in them to press and chase higher more of the time.

 

[braineclipse]

We were tired.
Boro played, 1st, 9th, 12th, 22nd, 26th of feb and ran us off the pitch. One of them against man utd which went to extra time and penalties.
We were three up after 30 mins on Saturday and should have strolled through the rest of the game.
Boro got beaten by the bottom team on Saturday.
Tired should not be an excuse. The championship is a slog and physically draining, but our precious ones are tired.
Boo hoo hoo.

We were visibly tired. From what I saw there was a lot of effort, but the energy just wasn't there.

Perhaps Boro are fitter than us, used to the long slog of the Championship? Perhaps we have too many players too far off peak physical fitness?

Excuse or not we looked drained well before extra time.

 

[StephenH]

No way those players had it in them to press and chase higher more of the time.

100%

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We were visibly tired. From what I saw there was a lot of effort, but the energy just wasn't there.

Perhaps Boro are fitter than us, used to the long slog of the Championship? Perhaps we have too many players too far off peak physical fitness?

Excuse or not we looked drained well before extra time.

Boro did make a few changes from their weekend defeat
But a Boro fan I know said they haven’t been the same team since beating United… saving themselves for the cup
We have seen it before but fans don’t really see it when there the team on the losing side

 

[metalgear]

My bigger frustration with Conte is that he set us up to defend so deep against a Championship side, for every minute of the entire game. It just let them grow in confidence throughout the game. Surely pressing and putting them under some early pressure was the way to go?

And yes the usual suspects like Winks and Hojbjerg weren’t great. But neither were our better players like Kane, Son, Romero, and Kulu (though it’s early days for him). That almost worries and frustrates me more.

You'd think Conte would know, and Mourinho too.

Both don't know that defending deep is risky?

I believe that they know how weak our midfield and defence are and are finding ways to fix the defence.

And if our players can't defend and play out against 2nd tier teams then it's very clear we have huge issues with the team.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The squad is far too fragile and lacks any depth for rotation.
Kane & Co should have started on bench. But Middlesbrough were a tough outfit and proved it. I thought someone said they have been unbeaten since October?

You can't start Kane on the bench when your only cover for him is 17 year old Dane Scarlett.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Kane's was definitely onside.

Both were onside

 

[braineclipse]

You can't start Kane on the bench when your only cover for him is 17 year old Dane Scarlett.

Conte has stated that he sees Bergwijn as an option there. Bergwijn could have started ahead of any of the front three (assuming he's fit and it's not an unreported illness/injury reason he didn't start).

Kane to me looked alright. He's the player in the front three with the lowest defensive workload I think. Son looked shattered as the game progressed. Don't quite know about Kulusevski. More of an off day than tired legs perhaps?

Could also have gone with a front two and added White to the midfield.

Either way, there were limited options other than Scarlett, but there were options.