OMT - Tottenham Hotspur - Woolwich tossers

[Finney Is Back]

It's a myth that he's good. One of the big problems imo - can't pass or dribble.

Or run. He is a decent enough holding midfielder.... The problem at the moment is that he is not holding the midfield but getting caught high up the pitch. I'm not sure whether this is the manager's poor tactics or the player not carrying out the manager's tactics... Hojbjerg being left on the pitch makes me think it must be the former.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree with you here. I don't think the defence did much wrong either. They got zero help from Hojbjerg today who is either playing with an injury or simply not trying. The only problem with the defence that we started with is that neither Sanchez nor Dier can pass. It means the opposition can just let them have the ball, concentrate on picking our other players up and know we can never hurt them.

Yep agree
The defence was so exposed they did what they could do to a point
Sure we can break each goal down to defensive errors but the midfield just offered nothing at either end of the pitch
Scary really when you consider they had a 2 man midfield
Although how xhaka wasn’t sent off I’ll never know
The guy gets away with what would be an assault every time

 

[Finney Is Back]

It hasn’t been good enough for sure over the matches.

But pretty pointless looking at rankings, unless all the other teams have had to play their biggest derby game away, Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project in the opening six games. Let’s see where we rank in comparison once everyone has played everyone….

If we wait that long then it might be too late to do something about it and salvage something from our season.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They had an unconvincing pen shout ignored as well. As you say, this was entirely on us.

That was a joke from them
We had a genuine one (if it was ok the area) completely ignored though which I thought was typical of how the game was going

 

[Bedfordspurs]

true, but also, if you can’t counteract a team playing 442 the same stands, I think you need 3 in CMF in the PL now

if we change, 352 might be better, if Royale can fit in

Why do you need 3 in midfield?
We lost to a team with 2
Chelsea started with 2 and we couldn’t score
Palace didn’t play with 3 did they?

off the top off my head the only team that plays with 3 CMs is pool

 

[Finney Is Back]

Nuno must go after those stats. He clearly knows nothing. Anyone of us ( including Scara !) could not do any worse.

Let's not go too far mate!

 

[Finney Is Back]

Its not the personel, its the formation.
Dele and Ndombele are not wide players and peh was to deep.
We left a huge gaping hole in tbe middle of the park.
Fine for the first 10 mins, but when you see its not working, which it clearly wasn't, the manager needs to do something.

PEH too deep? Goals 1 and 2 came from Hojbjerg being high up the pitch (perhaps 3 as well.... I'd have to watch that one again). We have no organisation or shape to this team.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

PEH too deep? Goals 1 and 2 came from Hojbjerg being high up the pitch (perhaps 3 as well.... I'd have to watch that one again). We have no organisation or shape to this team.

there was no midfield for any of the goals
First goal dele was tracking him and then let him go so it was a repeat of the goal from last season. Dele by then though by then had already done more than bale did last season

second and third we’re pure counters but not many passes either. They just ran with the ball uncontested

 

[Jurgen the German]

It really fudging is. 2 wins in 28 attempts since the PL began and one of those was a gimme in 93 coz they played the stiffs. And its not like we deserved to win many either. We're usually utterly dingdonged. Even when clubs like Swansea, Burnley and Villa go there and win, we don't fudging turn up.

Just like Anfield where we've won, I think, 4 times since the Titanic went down.

Didn't we also go 25 years without winning at Old Trafford?

It's fudging embarrassing. The sexy tag is not unwarranted.

Yep. It’s the manner of the defeats that hurts. 3-1, 3-0, 4-2, back to back 5-2 defeats under Harry and AVB when our team was more than a match for them.

Most teams have a bogey ground, we have about 10.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Interestingly enough I did think after watching the game that just about everything that could've gone for Arsenal did go for Arsenal.... The scuffed cross for the first, the lack of foul given to Hojbjerg for the second and the Kane tackle perfectly bobbling back to Saka for the third, as well as Kane not getting a penalty when White kicked him in the box. That doesn't excuse our performance though that was both lifeless and spineless.

That is so often the case when we go to their place. Why do you think that is? Doesn’t matter who the players are or who the manager is, we look scared.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I can't blame him or Ndombele for apparently doing what the manager told them to do.
Why we had those two wide and moura trying to run through the middle is a mystery.
I thought peh was GHod awful, worst player on the pitch by a country mile. Never in the right place, gave the ball away a lot and looked totally knackered.

Indeed. He was terrible. I've been reading through this thread and quite amazed at how certain players tend to get it but others seem to be immune. Had PEH given even a passable impression of a holding midfield player today (as I' assume he was supposed to be) then, as bad as we were anyway, we wouldn't have lost that game. The way that he casually jogged back after being easily beaten highish up the pitch for Arsenal's first goal was disgraceful. A manager like Alex Ferguson may have dragged him off there and then (which is why players playing for Alex Ferguson wouldn't do that).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sorry mate, that isn't good enough for me personally, I'd like concrete available names before we speak of sacking someone who has been here 5 minutes and had to flush the stench of brick from all corners of the club.

If we sack him then we'll likely end up with Mason again. Our absolute joke of a manager search after sacking Mourinho was telling and the (lack of) ambition from the top means that anyone worth their salt isn't going to choose to join our club. We might as well stick with this average Joe instead of waste even more of our transfer budget sacking another manager.

 

[Finney Is Back]

T

The 5-2s were much much worse
Last seasons was too IMO
We didn’t turn up for any part of last season and at least today we did when they let us for 20 mins or so

Sorry but yesterday's game was the most pathetic of the lot. Arsenal cruised to 3-0 up and then basically just said 'that will do' (thank GHod, otherwise it could've been embarrassing).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Graham Potter, Brendan Rodgers, Roberto Martinez, Bielsa, Eddie Howe, Conte, Zidane...

There are fellas out there. Are they perfect? No. Are the available? No.

Are they better than what we have? Most of the above are. Are they gettable? We're a massive club, they should be. If we can't tempt them, you have to ask questions about how we are being run.

Some of us have been for several years mate....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That is so often the case when we go to their place. Why do you think that is? Doesn’t matter who the players are or who the manager is, we look scared.

It’s why the game went exactly as I expected
They start fast
We brick the bed
I theme expected us to score on the counter
And them to hit us for six
Like so many games there
As it was we gave away the goals
And yet weirdly could have got back in it with the penalty shout which was clear for me and sons goal. Would have been interesting as I don’t think they would have been able to change gears after sitting back

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sorry but yesterday's game was the most pathetic of the lot. Arsenal cruised to 3-0 up and then basically just said 'that will do' (thank GHod, otherwise it could've been embarrassing).

I don’t agree
Last year was awful
Poch first game there when we drew we didn’t even have a shot on target
The 5-2s where we were head and flying
It’s just the most recent example of the players/club being spineless when we play there

 

[StephenH]

Yesterday was Self-inflicted. I still can understand what he was trying to achieve trying to play the long ball and but then doing nothing when it failed is baffling.

 

[billyiddo]

I agree with you here. I don't think the defence did much wrong either. They got zero help from Hojbjerg today who is either playing with an injury or simply not trying. The only problem with the defence that we started with is that neither Sanchez nor Dier can pass. It means the opposition can just let them have the ball, concentrate on picking our other players up and know we can never hurt them.

Hojberg seems to need a DM next to him rather than be the DM himself - question is, if that's the case does he offer enough on the ball and going forwards to warrant having that starting position?

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

Guys honestly do something else with your time rather than debate every detail of yesterdays game.

I warned several days ago what would happen in this game, which was that they would be bang up for it (players and crowd) and we would wilt under that, struggle to string a few passes together, constantly give the ball away and concede chance after chance, deserve to lose around 5-0 and any improvement on that scoreline would be down to lloris and or their poor finishing.

As I also said the other day, the above would have happened even if we had won every other game this season 5-0. This is what we do in this fixture. Its happened the last few years and will happen again next season and the season after that.

Its best to not get too emotionally involved in this club. It took 20 years of watching this brick for a switch to at least semi switch for me and hope for your sakes something similar happens for you guys.

Chelsea run London now and the top 4 is a closed shop. Even when we do get it briefly right (redknapp, pochs side) we still dont win anything. There is nothing to look forward to with this club sadly and it effectively died when alan sugar bought it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The red mist has lifted a bit. Still rather tinkled off though.

Losing 3-1 to Arsenal at the Emirates always hurts, it should too.

I'm putting this squarely at Nuno's feet, make no mistake about it! And it is for the same reasons that I put the blame for the second half vs. Chelsea on Nuno.
He is to slow to respond! He must learn to act when stuff does not turn out the way he planned!

Versus Chelsea he was a deer in the headlights as soon as Tuchel made his changes at half time, and it took him 12 minutes to respond. By then it was already 2-0 and the game was beyond us.
Today it was crystal clear after 5 minutes that the initial plan was not working. After 12 minutes, we were 1-0 down. After 27 we were 2-0 down, and we did _NOTHING_. Zero, zilch, nada. That is a very good deer-in-the-headlight-impression for the second week running!

Many a fault did He-who-must-not-be-named have, but I can assure you, he would have had one player off before the 20 minute mark if he saw that his single pivot didn't do the trick.

Now, I'm not for sacking anyone. Not now, not at christmas, or whatever, unless the situation urgently requires it. However, if Nunu fails to get the players to understand what the heck he wants them to do, we are in deep brick, and that situation can arise sooner than we think.

I'm extremely concerned about not being able to discern what the original intention of our plan was, neither on the defence nor on the offence.
Usually, even after a brick performance, like Pochettinos 3-0 vs. Brighton, etc, you could at least say that you could understand what the intention were, what we tried to do, but it didn't work, or the opposition outperformed us, outsmarted us. Today? Not a single clue. And even if I could muster guts and courage to watch the game again to try to analyze it, I would not find anything, I think.

I don't blame Dele nor Ndombele for their performance, if they did what Nuno asked them to do. And since he left them on the pitch for as long as he did, apparently they did.

I've said before that Nuno needs to learn, and that he needs to adapt, and fast, or else this will be a very long and dark season. Today was not evidence of him learning, nor adapting.

I see some laying into Nuno for admitting in the post match interview that he made the wrong decisions, took the wrong choices coming into the match. I would never do that. To admit that you made a mistake is fine. But to not act on it is not fine.

Going forward we must scrap this 4-3-3-thing. Put it in the bin, next to Pochettinos diamond. We don't have the materiell to play that way, nor will we for quite some time.
Establish a main tactic based on 4-2-3-1, supplement with 3-4-3 or 3-5-2, depending on competition or opposition.

Ok. New week, new beginning. New game on thursday, the recovery starts then! Aston Villa at the New Lane on sunday, will not at all be a walk in the park, and we really need to up our game. But, should we get two wins this week, things will be somewhat bearable going into the international break...
Two losses... well. Let's not go there.

The Thursday game means almost nothing. We're playing a tin-pot club in a tin-pot competition.

The next 2 PL games are key though. If we lose to Villa at the weekend then things will get toxic in the stadium. The players need to start playing like we are in a relegation battle right now.... Otherwise we really will be in one during the second half of this season.