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OMT - Tottenham Hotspur - Woolwich tossers

Isn't it ironic that we looked more dangerous when we had 'no coaching' and allegedly one of the most defensive managers in the business?

I'm not pointing the finger at anyone but I seem to recall quite a few people on here who claimed that Mourinho was doing a below-par job last season, with pretty much the same squad. I even remember reading we had the 4th best squad in the country...

It will obviously get worse before it gets better. First things first, unless we're in the bottom three by December, I can't see anyone at the club having the gall to sack Santo. They've just appointed him after sending a heartfelt letter about Spurs' 'DNA' (joke of the year) and changing the whole set-up. Levy might as well publicly admit he's an idiot. So, like him or not, Santo is here at least until the end of the season. I missed the City and Palace games but, apart from that, the football's been pretty horrible. There were better options out there in my opinion (including Martinez, who was ridiculed at the time) but what's done is done. Santo isn't going to turn into Johan Cruyff's hidden son overnight, and particularly not in that kind of climate.

I'm not really surprised by the current situation, personally. I stand by my point, made a year or so ago: we need a massive squad overhaul. A quick one would have meant a chance to rebound; now we're going to rebuild from scratch. In my opinion, we're back to where we were when Levy took over, albeit with a better stadium. WIth hindsight, selling Kane would have been a blessing in disguise as it would have allowed us to refresh the squad quicker. We're still paying for the mistakes we made under Pochettino but, again, there's no point in crying over spilt milk. That's where we are at the moment.

Hopefully, we can avoid fighting for survival (but that's not a given at all) and keep on renewing the squad over the next couple of windows. Apart from the players we've brought this summer and regardless of individual ability, I can't think of a single player who isn't past his sell-by date.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Isn't it ironic that we looked more dangerous when we had 'no coaching' and allegedly one of the most defensive managers in the business?

I'm not pointing the finger at anyone but I seem to recall quite a few people on here who claimed that Mourinho was doing a below-par job last season, with pretty much the same squad. I even remember reading we had the 4th best squad in the country...

It will obviously get worse before it gets better. First things first, unless we're in the bottom three by December, I can't see anyone at the club having the gall to sack Santo. They've just appointed him after sending a heartfelt letter about Spurs' 'DNA' (joke of the year) and changing the whole set-up. Levy might as well publicly admit he's an idiot. So, like him or not, Santo is here at least until the end of the season. I missed the City and Palace games but, apart from that, the football's been pretty horrible. There were better options out there in my opinion (including Martinez, who was ridiculed at the time) but what's done is done. Santo isn't going to turn into Johan Cruyff's hidden son overnight, and particularly not in that kind of climate.

I'm not really surprised by the current situation, personally. I stand by my point, made a year or so ago: we need a massive squad overhaul. A quick one would have meant a chance to rebound; now we're going to rebuild from scratch. In my opinion, we're back to where we were when Levy took over, albeit with a better stadium. WIth hindsight, selling Kane would have been a blessing in disguise as it would have allowed us to refresh the squad quicker. We're still paying for the mistakes we made under Pochettino but, again, there's no point in crying over spilt milk. That's where we are at the moment.

Hopefully, we can avoid fighting for survival (but that's not a given at all) and keep on renewing the squad over the next couple of windows. Apart from the players we've brought this summer and regardless of individual ability, I can't think of a single player who isn't past his sell-by date.
Click to expand...

Your point on Mourinho lacks the context of the fact he got the job by telling Levy he could do better with the squad than that current manager, and he subsequently came out in a few occasions and said he thought the squad was great!

Nobody who understands football thinks this is all a massive surprise. We live in hope but the die was cast a few years ago when the chairman did not listen to the manager’s repeated requests and warnings (for whatever reasons).

You asked for a massive squad overhaul as if the chairman will spend that money. That is why we got Mourinho (he told Levy we didn’t need one - ha!) and why the likes of Conte pretty quickly realized this was not for them. There is no guarantee Martinez would’ve come, and if you want to to point the managerial appt finger, it should be at Paratici.

Agreed, no-one’s going unless it gets dire fast. Welcome to our stasis and station for a year or so indeed…
 
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The red mist has lifted a bit. Still rather tinkled off though.

Losing 3-1 to Arsenal at the Emirates always hurts, it should too.

I'm putting this squarely at Nuno's feet, make no mistake about it! And it is for the same reasons that I put the blame for the second half vs. Chelsea on Nuno.
He is to slow to respond! He must learn to act when stuff does not turn out the way he planned!

Versus Chelsea he was a deer in the headlights as soon as Tuchel made his changes at half time, and it took him 12 minutes to respond. By then it was already 2-0 and the game was beyond us.
Today it was crystal clear after 5 minutes that the initial plan was not working. After 12 minutes, we were 1-0 down. After 27 we were 2-0 down, and we did _NOTHING_. Zero, zilch, nada. That is a very good deer-in-the-headlight-impression for the second week running!

Many a fault did He-who-must-not-be-named have, but I can assure you, he would have had one player off before the 20 minute mark if he saw that his single pivot didn't do the trick.

Now, I'm not for sacking anyone. Not now, not at christmas, or whatever, unless the situation urgently requires it. However, if Nunu fails to get the players to understand what the heck he wants them to do, we are in deep brick, and that situation can arise sooner than we think.

I'm extremely concerned about not being able to discern what the original intention of our plan was, neither on the defence nor on the offence.
Usually, even after a brick performance, like Pochettinos 3-0 vs. Brighton, etc, you could at least say that you could understand what the intention were, what we tried to do, but it didn't work, or the opposition outperformed us, outsmarted us. Today? Not a single clue. And even if I could muster guts and courage to watch the game again to try to analyze it, I would not find anything, I think.

I don't blame Dele nor Ndombele for their performance, if they did what Nuno asked them to do. And since he left them on the pitch for as long as he did, apparently they did.

I've said before that Nuno needs to learn, and that he needs to adapt, and fast, or else this will be a very long and dark season. Today was not evidence of him learning, nor adapting.

I see some laying into Nuno for admitting in the post match interview that he made the wrong decisions, took the wrong choices coming into the match. I would never do that. To admit that you made a mistake is fine. But to not act on it is not fine.

Going forward we must scrap this 4-3-3-thing. Put it in the bin, next to Pochettinos diamond. We don't have the materiell to play that way, nor will we for quite some time.
Establish a main tactic based on 4-2-3-1, supplement with 3-4-3 or 3-5-2, depending on competition or opposition.

Ok. New week, new beginning. New game on thursday, the recovery starts then! Aston Villa at the New Lane on sunday, will not at all be a walk in the park, and we really need to up our game. But, should we get two wins this week, things will be somewhat bearable going into the international break...
Two losses... well. Let's not go there.
 
Junior19 said:
The red mist has lifted a bit. Still rather tinkled off though.

Losing 3-1 to Arsenal at the Emirates always hurts, it should too.

I'm putting this squarely at Nuno's feet, make no mistake about it! And it is for the same reasons that I put the blame for the second half vs. Chelsea on Nuno.
He is to slow to respond! He must learn to act when stuff does not turn out the way he planned!

Versus Chelsea he was a deer in the headlights as soon as Tuchel made his changes at half time, and it took him 12 minutes to respond. By then it was already 2-0 and the game was beyond us.
Today it was crystal clear after 5 minutes that the initial plan was not working. After 12 minutes, we were 1-0 down. After 27 we were 2-0 down, and we did _NOTHING_. Zero, zilch, nada. That is a very good deer-in-the-headlight-impression for the second week running!

Many a fault did He-who-must-not-be-named have, but I can assure you, he would have had one player off before the 20 minute mark if he saw that his single pivot didn't do the trick.

Now, I'm not for sacking anyone. Not now, not at christmas, or whatever, unless the situation urgently requires it. However, if Nunu fails to get the players to understand what the heck he wants them to do, we are in deep brick, and that situation can arise sooner than we think.

I'm extremely concerned about not being able to discern what the original intention of our plan was, neither on the defence nor on the offence.
Usually, even after a brick performance, like Pochettinos 3-0 vs. Brighton, etc, you could at least say that you could understand what the intention were, what we tried to do, but it didn't work, or the opposition outperformed us, outsmarted us. Today? Not a single clue. And even if I could muster guts and courage to watch the game again to try to analyze it, I would not find anything, I think.

I don't blame Dele nor Ndombele for their performance, if they did what Nuno asked them to do. And since he left them on the pitch for as long as he did, apparently they did.

I've said before that Nuno needs to learn, and that he needs to adapt, and fast, or else this will be a very long and dark season. Today was not evidence of him learning, nor adapting.

I see some laying into Nuno for admitting in the post match interview that he made the wrong decisions, took the wrong choices coming into the match. I would never do that. To admit that you made a mistake is fine. But to not act on it is not fine.

Going forward we must scrap this 4-3-3-thing. Put it in the bin, next to Pochettinos diamond. We don't have the materiell to play that way, nor will we for quite some time.
Establish a main tactic based on 4-2-3-1, supplement with 3-4-3 or 3-5-2, depending on competition or opposition.

Ok. New week, new beginning. New game on thursday, the recovery starts then! Aston Villa at the New Lane on sunday, will not at all be a walk in the park, and we really need to up our game. But, should we get two wins this week, things will be somewhat bearable going into the international break...
Two losses... well. Let's not go there.
Click to expand...


As thats a couple of games dele and Ndombele have been wide they should be dropped for not following instructions or admit its his mistake for playing them there and change it.
Either way its not working and its his fault.
He deserves time, but he will not get long if this keeps up.
 
Can someone perhaps a bit older and more experienced than myself explain why so often we just don’t turn up at their place? At home we are always up for it and ready for whatever they throw at us, even when they had great teams and we were mid table fodder. But it doesn’t seem to make one bloody bit of difference how brick they are or that we have better players, we just freeze (including the fans) whenever we rock up at N5. They have inflicted so many heavy defeats on us it’s embarrassing.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Can someone perhaps a bit older and more experienced than myself explain why so often we just don’t turn up at their place? At home we are always up for it and ready for whatever they throw at us, even when they had great teams and we were mid table fodder. But it doesn’t seem to make one bloody bit of difference how brick they are or that we have better players, we just freeze (including the fans) whenever we rock up at N5. They have inflicted so many heavy defeats on us it’s embarrassing.
Click to expand...

It really fudging is. 2 wins in 28 attempts since the PL began and one of those was a gimme in 93 coz they played the stiffs. And its not like we deserved to win many either. We're usually utterly dingdonged. Even when clubs like Swansea, Burnley and Villa go there and win, we don't fudging turn up.

Just like Anfield where we've won, I think, 4 times since the Titanic went down.

Didn't we also go 25 years without winning at Old Trafford?

It's fudging embarrassing. The sexy tag is not unwarranted.
 
billyiddo said:
Which of our players have played for a team playing 442 before?
Click to expand...
If you can't play 442 you can't play 11 a side football.

Go back to basics. If Dele and Ndomb can understand, 442 we can go to 4231 - in which during phases it actually goes to 451 and 433.
These changes may be just too advanced for some our players, can i repeat, Dele and Ndomb which are beginning to like the midfield equivalent of Dumb and Dumber.
 
Junior19 said:
The red mist has lifted a bit. Still rather tinkled off though.

Losing 3-1 to Arsenal at the Emirates always hurts, it should too.

I'm putting this squarely at Nuno's feet, make no mistake about it! And it is for the same reasons that I put the blame for the second half vs. Chelsea on Nuno.
He is to slow to respond! He must learn to act when stuff does not turn out the way he planned!

Versus Chelsea he was a deer in the headlights as soon as Tuchel made his changes at half time, and it took him 12 minutes to respond. By then it was already 2-0 and the game was beyond us.
Today it was crystal clear after 5 minutes that the initial plan was not working. After 12 minutes, we were 1-0 down. After 27 we were 2-0 down, and we did _NOTHING_. Zero, zilch, nada. That is a very good deer-in-the-headlight-impression for the second week running!

Many a fault did He-who-must-not-be-named have, but I can assure you, he would have had one player off before the 20 minute mark if he saw that his single pivot didn't do the trick.

Now, I'm not for sacking anyone. Not now, not at christmas, or whatever, unless the situation urgently requires it. However, if Nunu fails to get the players to understand what the heck he wants them to do, we are in deep brick, and that situation can arise sooner than we think.

I'm extremely concerned about not being able to discern what the original intention of our plan was, neither on the defence nor on the offence.
Usually, even after a brick performance, like Pochettinos 3-0 vs. Brighton, etc, you could at least say that you could understand what the intention were, what we tried to do, but it didn't work, or the opposition outperformed us, outsmarted us. Today? Not a single clue. And even if I could muster guts and courage to watch the game again to try to analyze it, I would not find anything, I think.

I don't blame Dele nor Ndombele for their performance, if they did what Nuno asked them to do. And since he left them on the pitch for as long as he did, apparently they did.

I've said before that Nuno needs to learn, and that he needs to adapt, and fast, or else this will be a very long and dark season. Today was not evidence of him learning, nor adapting.

I see some laying into Nuno for admitting in the post match interview that he made the wrong decisions, took the wrong choices coming into the match. I would never do that. To admit that you made a mistake is fine. But to not act on it is not fine.

Going forward we must scrap this 4-3-3-thing. Put it in the bin, next to Pochettinos diamond. We don't have the materiell to play that way, nor will we for quite some time.
Establish a main tactic based on 4-2-3-1, supplement with 3-4-3 or 3-5-2, depending on competition or opposition.

Ok. New week, new beginning. New game on thursday, the recovery starts then! Aston Villa at the New Lane on sunday, will not at all be a walk in the park, and we really need to up our game. But, should we get two wins this week, things will be somewhat bearable going into the international break...
Two losses... well. Let's not go there.
Click to expand...
Pretty much agree with everything there! I find it extremely weird that Nuno persists with a formation that does not bring out the best of a single player out there, at least from midfield and forward.
I just cannot understand it! Every Tom, dingdong and Harry can see that we don't have the right type of players to play that formation, but somehow he can't. I just don't get it. Is he so determined to prove his methods right, that he can't see the trees because of the forest?

The scary thing is that he does not react or change it when it's clear for all that it doesn't work. He only changes personell, but little change in formation and tactics. That does not promise well for the future. I'd be surprised if we finish finish significantly higher than 10th. Our stats are relegation form, but we have some top class players to rectify that. Just hope we can scrape through this season without too much damage.
 
metalgear said:
If you can't play 442 you can't play 11 a side football.

Go back to basics. If Dele and Ndomb can understand, 442 we can go to 4231 - in which during phases it actually goes to 451 and 433.
These changes may be just too advanced for some our players, can i repeat, Dele and Ndomb which are beginning to like the midfield equivalent of Dumb and Dumber.
Click to expand...

Why do you believe the players know 442 more than any other formation? These are professional footballers not layman who play park football, it's no more basic for them than any other set up.
 
metalgear said:
If you can't play 442 you can't play 11 a side football.

Go back to basics. If Dele and Ndomb can understand, 442 we can go to 4231 - in which during phases it actually goes to 451 and 433.
These changes may be just too advanced for some our players, can i repeat, Dele and Ndomb which are beginning to like the midfield equivalent of Dumb and Dumber.
Click to expand...

true, but also, if you can’t counteract a team playing 442 the same stands, I think you need 3 in CMF in the PL now

if we change, 352 might be better, if Royale can fit in
 
Daisuk said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1442178719045484545
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Interestingly enough I did think after watching the game that just about everything that could've gone for Arsenal did go for Arsenal.... The scuffed cross for the first, the lack of foul given to Hojbjerg for the second and the Kane tackle perfectly bobbling back to Saka for the third, as well as Kane not getting a penalty when White kicked him in the box. That doesn't excuse our performance though that was both lifeless and spineless.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Interestingly enough I did think after watching the game that just about everything that could've gone for Arsenal did go for Arsenal.... The scuffed cross for the first, the lack of foul given to Hojbjerg for the second and the Kane tackle perfectly bobbling back to Saka for the third, as well as Kane not getting a penalty when White kicked him in the box. That doesn't excuse our performance though that was both lifeless and spineless.
Click to expand...

They had an unconvincing pen shout ignored as well. As you say, this was entirely on us.
 
afsoc4life said:
Defence did well as well IMHO. Funny to say that after a 3-1 match. We need a mobile front 3 for this tactic. Kane isn't it.
Click to expand...
I agree with you here. I don't think the defence did much wrong either. They got zero help from Hojbjerg today who is either playing with an injury or simply not trying. The only problem with the defence that we started with is that neither Sanchez nor Dier can pass. It means the opposition can just let them have the ball, concentrate on picking our other players up and know we can never hurt them.
 
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