****OMT***** Tottenham Hotspur vs. West Bromwich Albion - 26/12/13: 3pm

[BrainOfLevy]

We have debated AVB ad naseam. You really need to take a deep breath and not rush to judgement based on pre conceived ideas. You said earlier you were going to do this. Hiw long dud it last - until your dismissive halftime comments!

I don't think you're actually reading my posts.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

People who were big AVB fans either refused to set targets for the team and when asked how much time he should be given responded with vague answers like "as long as it takes" but Sherwood has to come in straight away and carry on the fantastic work AVB was doing and finish 4th or he's a crap manager. Think that's the jist of it.

I maintained all along that top 4 would be a struggle so I'm not changing that way of thinking. Top 6 should be the minimum target though.

Sherwood gets that extra pressure from me because he played a part in the previous Head Coach not getting time. Why should Sherwood get the luxury but not AVB? Either he knows our problems and how to fix them to tangible effect or he needs time just like AVB did. In which case why did we sack a trophy winner who the players were still playing for, for a novice who has been good with the kids?

 

[DHSF]

Top 6 will NOT happen with Sherwood in charge until the end of the season. If we lose our FA Cup game against Arsenal in the New Year our season will be over imo

Why do you have to be so absolute in terms of what we may or may not achieve? I really do hope the players do NOT think like you.

We are NOT far off top four or beyond. We are going through a mini transitional period at the moment with a number of key injuries. There is no denying it will be tough, even at the best of times, but that is no reason for us to be dismissive of our chances

 

[Jurgen the German]

Sherwood gets that extra pressure from me because he played a part in the previous Head Coach not getting time. Why should Sherwood get the luxury but not AVB? Either he knows our problems and how to fix them to tangible effect or he needs time just like AVB did. In which case why did we sack a trophy winner who the players were still playing for, for a novice who has been good with the kids?

AVB had a season and a half and yet people still made excuses for him. To your credit, you actually said you thought questions should be asked if we hadn't shown signs of improvement by the end of the season, but many others didn't say that.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Sherwood gets that extra pressure from me because he played a part in the previous Head Coach not getting time. Why should Sherwood get the luxury but not AVB? Either he knows our problems and how to fix them to tangible effect or he needs time just like AVB did. In which case why did we sack a trophy winner who the players were still playing for, for a novice who has been good with the kids?

I have yet to see anyone say anything against these very well-argued points

 

[glorygloryeze]

Why do you have to be so absolute in terms of what we may or may not achieve? I really do hope the players do NOT think like you.

We are NOT far off top four or beyond. We are going through a mini transitional period at the moment with a number of key injuries. There is no denying it will be tough, even at the best of times, but that is no reason for us to be dismissive of our chances

Haha...did you think that after the 5-0 versus Liverpool? I think you'll find we are further behind now, oh and being managed mid-season by a managerial novice. We had some key injuries for that Liverpool as well btw.

I love it that somehow a novice is creating more optimism than the previous manager who even if people didn't like or think was very good was FAR MORE proven.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I have yet to see anyone say anything against these very well-argued points

Slating him after 2 league games is not giving someone time. Saying he should be under pressure at the end of the season if we don't get top 4 is not giving someone time. Some of AVB's big supporters were saying we should write the season off as we have so many new players, now the manager has changed the expectation goes up? AVB's success looks like a flash in pan of a very short career so far, no use of saying he's a "trophy winner" when he's only managed for about 4 years.

The home form needs sorting

Players like Eriksen and Lamela need to be inserted into the side as regulars, not used as bit part players or spacegoated because of one lousy game

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I have yet to see anyone say anything against these very well-argued points

Hey man I got told I had lost all perspective and become maniacal, it doesn't go totally ignored!

 

[DHSF]

Haha...did you think that after the 5-0 versus Liverpool? I think you'll find we are further behind now, oh and being managed mid-season by a managerial novice. We had some key injuries for that Liverpool as well btw.

I love it that somehow a novice is creating more optimism than the previous manager who even if people didn't like or think was very good was FAR MORE proven.

Its not about the 'Novice' creating optimism...

 

[Jurgen the German]

Haha...did you think that after the 5-0 versus Liverpool? I think you'll find we are further behind now, oh and being managed mid-season by a managerial novice. We had some key injuries for that Liverpool as well btw.

I love it that somehow a novice is creating more optimism than the previous manager who even if people didn't like or think was very good was FAR MORE proven.

That isn't the case mate, I didn't think AVB was the right man for the job after this season's showings but I am not more optimistic about Sherwood, I am simply willing to give him until the end of the season at least. At least the style of play will improve and I won't nod off during games anymore. No one knows how Sherwood will pan out, but I speak for many people in saying I was worried that AVB's brand of football was slow and too negative to succeed long term in the Premier League. Marky even said he hasn't enjoyed the games this season.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Its not about the 'Novice' creating optimism...

So where does yours come from then?

 

[scaramanga]

Slating him after 2 league games is not giving someone time. Saying he should be under pressure at the end of the season if we don't get top 4 is not giving someone time. Some of AVB's big supporters were saying we should write the season off as we have so many new players, now the manager has changed the expectation goes up? AVB's success looks like a flash in pan of a very short career so far, no use of saying he's a "trophy winner" when he's only managed for about 4 years.

The home form needs sorting

Players like Eriksen and Lamela need to be inserted into the side as regulars, not used as bit part players or spacegoated because of one lousy game

Either managers need time, in which case AVB should be managing us. Or they don't, in which case NBD should be succeeding.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Either managers need time, in which case AVB should be managing us. Or they don't, in which case NBD should be succeeding.

Time is a relative term, how many more embarrassing defeats would you have been willing to accept? Football is a results business, any manager of any PL club would be under serious pressure after 3-0, 6-0 and 5-0, even the Hull manager. You give the manager time if you are confident he is the right man for the job, AVB wasn't the right man. I'm not saying Sherwood is and I'm not even a big fan of Levy's so I'm not defending the decision to appoint Sherwood.

 

[glorygloryeze]

That isn't the case mate, I didn't think AVB was the right man for the job after this season's showings but I am not more optimistic about Sherwood, I am simply willing to give him until the end of the season at least. At least the style of play will improve and I won't nod off during games anymore. No one knows how Sherwood will pan out, but I speak for many people in saying I was worried that AVB's brand of football was slow and too negative to succeed long term in the Premier League. Marky even said he hasn't enjoyed the games this season.

AVB should have been given more time to improve things. Who knows, he may have gone on a long unbeaten run like we did after our bad patch in November last season.
We had already become more entertaining after the Emirates Marketing Project game, only that we met a rampant Liverpool side with a few too many CBs out.
If Sherwood bombs (like I suspect he will at this delicate stage of the season) but we lose games like we did against West Ham by conceding multiple late goals, let's see how that brand of football is liked.

 

[scaramanga]

Time is a relative term, how many more embarrassing defeats would you have been willing to accept? Football is a results business, any manager of any PL club would be under serious pressure after 3-0, 6-0 and 5-0, even the Hull manager. You give the manager time if you are confident he is the right man for the job, AVB wasn't the right man. I'm not saying Sherwood is and I'm not even a big fan of Levy's so I'm not defending the decision to appoint Sherwood.

I made the point in another thread, I don't care about the size of the defeats, I care about the number of them.

We were still on course to do very well this season, making a decision based on the size of the defeats is emotional and not rational.

 

[DHSF]

So where does yours come from then?

Im a guy who still thinks we will win the league in my lifetime. Internal Optimism.

Actually its not optimism - its HOPE. Its why I still pay 900 quid a season.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Time is a relative term, how many more embarrassing defeats would you have been willing to accept? Football is a results business, any manager of any PL club would be under serious pressure after 3-0, 6-0 and 5-0, even the Hull manager. You give the manager time if you are confident he is the right man for the job, AVB wasn't the right man. I'm not saying Sherwood is and I'm not even a big fan of Levy's so I'm not defending the decision to appoint Sherwood.

AVB had proved this season and last that after bad results he could get the team playing again and get wins soon afterwards. Arsenal lost 8-2 a couple of years ago and they stuck with their (trophyless-after-6-years) manager.
If we were going to even think about firing AVB after he won 8 our of 16 matches, losing 5, we should have only done so with a replacement who was clearly an upgrade immediately ready to replace him.

We are in a shambles right now, make no mistake

 

[Jurgen the German]

AVB should have been given more time to improve things. Who knows, he may have gone on a long unbeaten run like we did after our bad patch in November last season.
We had already become more entertaining after the Emirates Marketing Project game, only that we met a rampant Liverpool side with a few too many CBs out.
If Sherwood bombs (like I suspect he will at this delicate stage of the season) but we lose games like we did against West Ham by conceding multiple late goals, let's see how that brand of football is liked.

I said that even after the Emirates Marketing Project game, but the accumulation of shocking results was impossible to ignore or accept.

Liverpool had their 2nd best striker injured and one of their most influential midfielders, Gerrard is a shadow of the player he was 4 years ago, but he's still a driving force for them. It makes it even worse that we had so many injuries at CB and yet AVB STILL persisted with the high line with a slow centre back and DM playing out of position. It's those kind of **** ups that are continually glossed over by some of AVB's backers.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Im a guy who still thinks we will win the league in my lifetime. Internal Optimism.

Actually its not optimism - its HOPE. Its why I still pay 900 quid a season.

Hey, like you I'm a man of big big optimism, but even I can see the massive car crash on the motorway ahead

 

[Jurgen the German]

I made the point in another thread, I don't care about the size of the defeats, I care about the number of them.

We were still on course to do very well this season, making a decision based on the size of the defeats is emotional and not rational.

See that's where we disagree, losing 1-0 or even 2-0 to Liverpool is nothing to be embarrassed about, losing 5-0 which could have conceivably been 10-0 is frankly humiliating. Heavy defeats are psychological blows. The Emirates Marketing Project defeat could have also been even worse. It's the defeats and also the manner of the defeats. More unlucky losses like the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game rather than drubbings might not have saved his job, but he would have had more of a leg to stand on.