***OMT: Tottenham Hotspur vs Liverpool***

[Glenda's Legs]

Yep.

Freeze frame of VVD's boot kicking Lamela just below the back of the knee as he swings at the ball



van Dijk: "For the second penalty, I see him coming and I try and hold my leg in, he just pulled his body in front of the ball and he goes down."
Not much evidence of him trying to hold is leg in.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think the way he tapped the ref afterwards shows he knows it was a dive.

In fairness, 99 times out of 100 Lovren would make a rash hack at the ball there and miss by a mile, giving away the pen, so you're probably primed to hit the deck.

He was waiting for the contact that was obviously coming, same as any other player would.

Except Lovren managed to pull out completely. Alli shaped to "earn" the foul Lovren was lining up to give him, it was completely 'normal' - then Lovren doesnt actually follow through as expected - makes Alli look like a cheating fool.

 

[elltrev]

He was waiting for the contact that was obviously coming, same as any other player would.

Except Lovren managed to pull out completely. Alli shaped to "earn" the foul Lovren was lining up to give him, it was completely 'normal' - then Lovren doesnt actually follow through as expected - makes Alli look like a cheating fool.

Yup, because he was being a cheating fool! 'Waiting for the contact that was obviously coming' means physically bracing yourself, not doing the opposite and falling over.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Im not saying I condone it, just saying it was pretty standard play that was made to look a lot worse than it was by the defender pulling out completely.

 

[elltrev]

Im not saying I condone it, just saying it was pretty standard play that was made to look a lot worse than it was by the defender pulling out completely.

I see what you're saying, but I can't even agree with that to be honest - just because he fell to the floor before Lovren had even started to kick towards him.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think his timing was perfect - expecting contact.

Lovren is charging right at him, if he continues then Alli has a stonewall penalty.

Alli was doing what all players do, but Lovren played smart and pulled out completely.

He went from charging right at him to no where near contact in an instant.

In Alli's shoes Id have been certain of incoming contact.

 

[DTA]

Yup, because he was being a cheating fool! 'Waiting for the contact that was obviously coming' means physically bracing yourself, not doing the opposite and falling over.

Or he was protecting himself against contact.

 

[elltrev]

Or he was protecting himself against contact.

By falling to the ground? That is not protection. And Lovren hadn't even started a kick motion anyway.

Come on, it's 100% a terrible dive and trying to suggest otherwise is as embarassing as the dive itself to be honest.

 

[jaysea67]

Presumably because he was booked, the incident can't be reviewed?
If he hadn't been booked, could it now be reviewed for diving/intent to deceive, even though he didn't claim for the foul (but clearly hit the deck in anticipation of contact that wasn't forthcoming)? I am not sure on the rule.
(If the latter (which would seem harsh), then Jon Moss has probably done us a favour).

Alleged acts of simulation can only be reviewed retrospectively when they lead to a penalty or the sending-off of an opponent (including the opponent receiving the first of two yellow cards). So the incident couldn't have been subject to retrospective action if the referee had decided that Alli just lost his balance, no booking needed.

 

[Ade's folks are ok really]

By falling to the ground? That is not protection. And Lovren hadn't even started a kick motion anyway.

Come on, it's 400% a terrible dive and trying to suggest otherwise is as embarassing as the dive itself to be honest.

The biggest giveaway for me was that he didn't even contest it. He knew he'd fudged up and gave that acknowledging tap to referee as if to say, yep, fair booking, you got me.

No way anyone can defend Alli on this one...ironically...he doesn't have a leg to stand on! (coat)

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Im not defending him, as such.

Personally I hate that whole side of the game, leaving a leg in to buy a foul, I think its awful.

But... it is a legitimate part of the game today.

And thats what he was doing, same as any player would with a defender charging at them like Lovren did.

The only reason its a talking point is because of the way Lovren pulled out. Its exposed the "trick" that ALL players do. And made Alli look silly in the process.

He knew it wasnt a foul, though at the same time its not a complete dive either, its the "leave a leg in and wait for contact" thing that players pull in ever game completely exposed.

And for all the outcry from Liverpool fans, watch their next game - I guarantee they pull the same move at least 5 times during the match.

 

[milo]

No way anyone can defend Alli on this one...ironically...he doesn't have a leg to stand on! (coat)

I'm ok with Alli (and our other players) cheating. In an ideal world it wouldn't be necessary but I am fed up of losing out to other sides who cheat. The difference between winning and losing is such a fine margin that winning clean seems impossible.

 

[milo]

Im not defending him, as such.

Personally I hate that whole side of the game, leaving a leg in to buy a foul, I think its awful.

But... it is a legitimate part of the game today.

And thats what he was doing, same as any player would with a defender charging at them like Lovren did.

The only reason its a talking point is because of the way Lovren pulled out. Its exposed the "trick" that ALL players do. And made Alli look silly in the process.

He knew it wasnt a foul, though at the same time its not a complete dive either, its the "leave a leg in and wait for contact" thing that players pull in ever game completely exposed.

And for all the outcry from Liverpool fans, watch their next game - I guarantee they pull the same move at least 5 times during the match.

I don't remember the Liverpool fans complaining when Suarez threw himself to the ground when anyone went within a foot of him.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I don't remember the Liverpool fans complaining when Suarez threw himself to the ground when anyone went within a foot of him.

Its no surprise they arent self aware enough to see it themselves

 

[Hootnow]

I'm ok with Alli (and our other players) cheating. In an ideal world it wouldn't be necessary but I am fed up of losing out to other sides who cheat. The difference between winning and losing is such a fine margin that winning clean seems impossible.

I think we're a bit beyond this line tbh. We've got players who dive, players who leave boots in, we're amongst one of the most cynical teams in the league imo (and confirmed by quite a few objective non premier league fan friends.)

And I love it. I honestly don't care that Alli is a snide little taco. If he played for another team, I would undoubtedly hate him. But he doesn't so I don't. I don't care that Vertonghen loves off the ball stuff. I don't care that Dembele seems to have lost the plot a bit this season. Or that Lamela is great at tactical fouling.

I honestly don't. And I don't see why people should care. This idealised image some people seem to have of we should do it the right way. There is no right way. Part of our recent improvement has been how good we've become at cynical play. My only complaint is that we could be better at it at times and sometimes it hinders us (Alli's reputation now as a diver, our meltdown at the Bridge etc).

Excellent performance all in all imo. Were it not for Dier's brainfart early on, I think we could easily have gone on to win that. Typical Liverpool game plan really. Blitz you for the first 45-60 minutes and hope they've built iup enough of a lead to make them unreachable.

And the last minute goal was excellent bottle.

One of the clearest penalties I've ever seen and I have no idea what the Pool fans are complaining about.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I dont think we are that cynical.

No-nonsense, absolutely. Physical? Absolutely. Cynical? Ill reserve that for the like of Man U, any Moyes team, Arsenal when its not going their way, even Liverpool yesterday to a degree.

 

[a spur from swansea]

Reminds me when we had a twenty pager on Gareth Bale amaetaur dramatics on the pitch....lol

 

[alekaras]

What? The first angle shows there's clearly contact! You can see virgils foot wrap around the inside of lamelas leg!

No, there is a side on camera angle that clearly shows vvd whacking into lamela, which from another angle looks like vvd checked his shot. Pen all day long, if it was another part of the pitch it would have been a foul. Now Kane, sold it well, got that last touch before karius's hand came into contact - but for the first pen he gambled, and lost, going down the middle.

OK, I stand corrected. I watched it again frame by frame and there is a slight touch by VvD. Not as violent as Lamela made it out to be, but definitely a touch. But Lamela selling it is key to the pen being given. Another player may have not reacted to it the same way Lamela did and nothing would have been given.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I think we're a bit beyond this line tbh. We've got players who dive, players who leave boots in, we're amongst one of the most cynical teams in the league imo (and confirmed by quite a few objective non premier league fan friends.)

And I love it. I honestly don't care that Alli is a snide little taco. If he played for another team, I would undoubtedly hate him. But he doesn't so I don't. I don't care that Vertonghen loves off the ball stuff. I don't care that Dembele seems to have lost the plot a bit this season. Or that Lamela is great at tactical fouling.

I honestly don't. And I don't see why people should care. This idealised image some people seem to have of we should do it the right way. There is no right way. Part of our recent improvement has been how good we've become at cynical play. My only complaint is that we could be better at it at times and sometimes it hinders us (Alli's reputation now as a diver, our meltdown at the Bridge etc).

Excellent performance all in all imo. Were it not for Dier's brainfart early on, I think we could easily have gone on to win that. Typical Liverpool game plan really. Blitz you for the first 45-60 minutes and hope they've built iup enough of a lead to make them unreachable.

And the last minute goal was excellent bottle.

One of the clearest penalties I've ever seen and I have no idea what the Pool fans are complaining about.

They have moved on to it being offside so it shouldn't have been given - its nice to taste their tears.

 

[billyiddo]

OK, I stand corrected. I watched it again frame by frame and there is a slight touch by VvD. Not as violent as Lamela made it out to be, but definitely a touch. But Lamela selling it is key to the pen being given. Another player may have not reacted to it the same way Lamela did and nothing would have been given.

Slight touch?! He kicks him full pelt as though he was making the clearance