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OMT *** Tottenham Hotspur vs Fiorentina***

Pirate55 said:
Anyone else surprised by the subs? I know I was. Was Carroll injured? Otherwise subbing him at half time is not really a usual Poch move. I thought Alli should have been taken off to protect him against a second yellow. Hope his injury isn't too bad. What was wrong with Lamella - someone said he was ill? Was he on the bench, I didn't have any commentary, but thought I saw him. If he was ill, why was he there? The only sub I really understood was Dier to shore up the middle when they were getting on top.

Why was Kane used at all? He deffo looks a bit jaded. His closing down isn't as crisp as it was earlier in the season and Poch needs to be really careful not to burn him out. Son hasn't yet recaptured his early season form but surely it was worth persevering with him to let Kane have a complete rest.

Some perplexing decisions there to my mind.
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Maybe he plans to start Carroll and Son v Palace, with Dembele and Kane sitting it out?
 
Pirate55 said:
Anyone else surprised by the subs? I know I was. Was Carroll injured? Otherwise subbing him at half time is not really a usual Poch move. I thought Alli should have been taken off to protect him against a second yellow. Hope his injury isn't too bad. What was wrong with Lamella - someone said he was ill? Was he on the bench, I didn't have any commentary, but thought I saw him. If he was ill, why was he there? The only sub I really understood was Dier to shore up the middle when they were getting on top.

Why was Kane used at all? He deffo looks a bit jaded. His closing down isn't as crisp as it was earlier in the season and Poch needs to be really careful not to burn him out. Son hasn't yet recaptured his early season form but surely it was worth persevering with him to let Kane have a complete rest.

Some perplexing decisions there to my mind.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the Carroll sub, I thought that he played quite well in the first half. Maybe he did pick up a knock.

I think that Poch's decision to leave Alli on was vindicated. He played OK in the second half and never looked like he was going to overstep the line. If he is going to continue to develop as a player, he will need to mature and trusting him like this is one way of helping that along.

Lamela was ill. Maybe he fell ill over in Italy.

Kane being jaded? I thought that he played OK. I think that often people are seeing what they are looking for when they say he looks jaded. Even when he is on top form he looks flushed and a little awkward, it is easy to interpret this as being tired or jaded in a sub-excellent performance.
 
Pirate55 said:
Anyone else surprised by the subs? I know I was. Was Carroll injured? Otherwise subbing him at half time is not really a usual Poch move. I thought Alli should have been taken off to protect him against a second yellow. Hope his injury isn't too bad. What was wrong with Lamella - someone said he was ill? Was he on the bench, I didn't have any commentary, but thought I saw him. If he was ill, why was he there? The only sub I really understood was Dier to shore up the middle when they were getting on top.

Why was Kane used at all? He deffo looks a bit jaded. His closing down isn't as crisp as it was earlier in the season and Poch needs to be really careful not to burn him out. Son hasn't yet recaptured his early season form but surely it was worth persevering with him to let Kane have a complete rest.

Some perplexing decisions there to my mind.
Click to expand...
I know where you're coming from BUT I presume Poch brought on Dembele for Carroll at half time to shore things up a bit (we had a slim 1-0 lead away in Europe against a really strong side [yes they are strong!]) and/or Carroll had a slight knock, we don't know. I expected Carroll to be fitter than Mason, so I'm guessing it was a knock. Mason ended up playing the whole match which is a huge ask after being out for so long.

Kane came on for Son at 68, I guess Son was spent and we wanted to retain a goal threat, with Chadli probably also tiring, so he wanted to take Chadli off at some point too to retain a goal threat... and brought Dier on for him on 79 to see out the last 15 mins.

Kind of makes sense, didn't use Onomah, Rose or Walker. The former is v young, the latter weren't needed... all pretty much makes sense.
 
we were doing ok and limited them mostly to long shots.
thought son looked lethargic and had a poor game overall.
in the end it felt like men vs boys - with fiorentina more streetsmart in fouling and drawing fouls and disrupting our game.
their goal was a little flukey too
 
Away goal achieved, didnt lose the game, positive position for the 2nd leg, all good, onto the next one.
 
milo said:
I don't know about the Carroll sub, I thought that he played quite well in the first half. Maybe he did pick up a knock.

I think that Poch's decision to leave Alli on was vindicated. He played OK in the second half and never looked like he was going to overstep the line. If he is going to continue to develop as a player, he will need to mature and trusting him like this is one way of helping that along.

Lamela was ill. Maybe he fell ill over in Italy.

Kane being jaded? I thought that he played OK. I think that often people are seeing what they are looking for when they say he looks jaded. Even when he is on top form he looks flushed and a little awkward, it is easy to interpret this as being tired or jaded in a sub-excellent performance.
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Spot on about Alli. I thought he might be taken off, and would have been happy to see it. But he controlled himself well in that second half and it must have been a good learning experience for him.

I don't understand why people think 20-25 minutes of EL football is going to hugely influence Kane's fitness levels...

Also quite simply Alli, Kane, Eriksen are some of our best players. We want to win the tie our best players on the pitch makes sense.
 
I thought it was a very mature performance from a very young and mostly reserve squad (oldest outfield player was Toby at 26). Sure we didn't overrun them, but we got a good result and managed the game well, which was the objective.

I found the muted celebrations when we scored kinda funny. Almost as if the players were thinking "oh brick, we're going through to the next round."

I also like the fact that our players get right up after a foul and don't go to ground so easy. It's the right way to play and shows the Italians for the wimps they are.
 
Bullet said:
I presume Poch brought on Dembele for Carroll at half time to shore things up a bit and/or Carroll had a slight knock, we don't know.
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Carroll did have a slight cut to his achilles, so the subs made complete sense in view of that
 
Last night in Florence! Lovely City!

Thought we played well until the lucky goal...missed the protection of Dier.

Shows how far we've come in 12 months that I was disappointed with a draw and will be even more disappointed if we go out.

Silly drunk Spurs fans scuffle in the away end just at the time of the pen...let us down! It's what Millwall fans do not us especially when there are a lot of kids and women about!
 
[Quote/]I also like the fact that our players get right up after a foul and don't go to ground so easy. It's the right way to play and shows the Italians for the wimps they are.[/QUOTE]

Not sure if it's club policy handed down from on high by Levy and the Board but the acting nonsense seems to have become noticeably less conspicuous since Poch's arrival.

If so, yet another Brownie point for St Mopo. This man is unreal.
 
Spur of the moment said:
I also like the fact that our players get right up after a foul and don't go to ground so easy. It's the right way to play and shows the Italians for the wimps they are.

Not sure if it's club policy handed down from on high by Levy and the Board but the acting nonsense seems to have become noticeably less conspicuous since Poch's arrival.

If so, yet another Brownie point for St Mopo. This man is unreal.
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I cannot stand the playacting that goes on with some players and teams and I am really glad that we don't do this, whether it's coming from the coach or higher up the hierarchy. We did get the calls when we were fouled, whether we went to ground or not. Davies penalty is a good example, where he really tried to stay on his feet, but still got the call. Any other player would have hit the turf like both his knees were shot off with a .45.
 
Bare in mind we seem to do the most tactical small fouls... Could be something straight outcof the black box!
 
Papercut said:
Bare in mind we seem to do the most tactical small fouls... Could be something straight out of the black box!
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Well maybe not the black box but it is certainly coached. To think that a team is not actively coached in the darker arts is a little naive (that comment is not directed at you btw). Our high percentage of fouls in the opposition half is a corollary of our high press, but I have no doubt that a fair amount of them are nothing more than momentum killers and something the coaching team actively coach and condone. Fouls to halt opposition attack but not draw a card are like a reset button. Lamela is our reset button!!

I like our current approach\balance on this. Generally speaking we are not overtly cynical in our fouls (Alli needs to watch himself on this front) and we usually escape a card because the foul is committed nowhere near the danger zone. On top of that we don't act like pricks when we ourselves are fouled, but we are certainly working the ref's ear way more than we use to. It's not Utd levels of ref harassment but we're still letting him know. What that ultimately means is that we are perceived as being a somewhat fair and honest team in the ref's eyes (or rather buried in his subconscious). Whether that tag is warranted is not is beside the point. Perception is all that matters.
 
A good point there Rorschach that I think is often overlooked, the position of the foul can often dictate the punishment. All the hooha last week about Leicesters red card, the first booking is seen as soft, Sanchez is by his man and heading into space to get a cross in. The foul was deliberate to stop that, booking.
 
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