*** OMT: Tottenham Hotspur vs Crystal Palace ***

[FatBloke]

Yup, I’d rather he hadn’t made that gaffe but otherwise had an average day which would’ve resulted in a comfortable win for us! Reminds me of De Gea at Wembley a couple of seasons ago.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1338370888631246849

I liked his interview on MotD2 -- seems a decent lad. Sometimes a keeper having a worldie against us can be put down to all our shots being straight at him. Not this time. Hopefully he'll manage to frustrate some of our rivals too.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think it was a bad mistake either. They are always tricky when a whipped in free kick is coming in, around or just above the height of the players in front of you.

The goal their keeper let in was a much bigger mistake. He did make up for it though.

IMO the only keeper who does anything different there is de gea, who uses his legs better than his arms

 

[iggyfog]

Sissoko has been great as that very defensive minded player next to Hojbjerg, but he remains limited on the ball so what is the answer to play through pressure and keep possession more?

Sissoko ball doesn't quite work against these teams when we need to dominate possession and recycle the ball - he is a great athlete and works in this role when he needs to cover for other players (i.e. his role is to allow Aurier to push-on) but is very limited with the ball at his feet and passing ability is limited.

We need an alternative approach to this kind of game.....

To be fair though the keeper played a blinder.....

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sissoko ball doesn't quite work against these teams when we need to dominate possession and recycle the ball - he is a great athlete and works in this role when he needs to cover for other players (i.e. his role is to allow Aurier to push-on) but is very limited with the ball at his feet and passing ability is limited.

We need an alternative approach to this kind of game.....

To be fair though the keeper played a blinder.....

I don’t think it is anything to do with Sissoko, it is the tactics. We were fine dominating the ball and creating chances until we scored and automatically dropped into a low block.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I don’t think it is anything to do with Sissoko, it is the tactics. We were fine dominating the ball and creating chances until we scored and automatically dropped into a low block.

i thought that was the planned tactic BUT Mourinho has said it wasn't on his instruction.

 

[Raziel]

i thought that was the planned tactic BUT Mourinho has said it wasn't on his instruction.

Don't see why we/Jose would have opted for a low block against Palace, mid block yes, especially when chasing 2nd (being careful not expose ourselves unnecessarily).

I think it's as simple as the players were complacent (both before our goal and after theirs we were able to control the game) and probably had an eye on Wednesday's game.

Every game will not go to plan, it's to make sure these are the exceptions vs. common results.

 

[elltrev]

Sissoko ball doesn't quite work against these teams when we need to dominate possession and recycle the ball - he is a great athlete and works in this role when he needs to cover for other players (i.e. his role is to allow Aurier to push-on) but is very limited with the ball at his feet and passing ability is limited.

We need an alternative approach to this kind of game.....

To be fair though the keeper played a blinder.....

I agree.

I know not everyone likes stats, but for those that do - I found this an interesting illustration of what I (and I'm sure most people) have been seeing with my own eyes - that as well as being decent defensively, Hojbjerg offers so much more in possession than Sissoko:



Sissoko's great in games where we're defending and hitting on the break, but not when we're trying to keep possession to defend a lead like Jose said we were yesterday.

(Not saying Sissoko was entirely at fault yesterday, but I think he was part of the problem).

 

[Finney Is Back]

I agree.

I know not everyone likes stats, but for those that do - I found this an interesting illustration of what I (and I'm sure most people) have been seeing with my own eyes - that as well as being decent defensively, Hojbjerg offers so much more in possession than Sissoko:

View attachment 10261

Sissoko's great in games where we're defending and hitting on the break, but not when we're trying to keep possession to defend a lead like Jose said we were yesterday.

(Not saying Sissoko was entirely at fault yesterday, but I think he was part of the problem).

It didn’t look to me like we were trying to keep possession yesterday? It looked very much like backs to the wall, low block, just without the 2 goal lead, like we had against Arsenal and against a team that, unlike Arsenal, had an ariel threat from crosses. Also why immediately after they scored were we able to again be dominant without changing the team?

The low block, starts with the defence. When they drop back 10 yards deeper then our midfield also have to do the same. If the low block isn’t what Jose wanted then Toby or Dier need to be far more vocal and brave and take a position 10 yards further up the pitch. And even if they fail to Jose should be doing that. The lack of him instructing that from the sidelines yesterday makes me think it was actually what he wanted (despite his protestations otherwise).

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It didn’t look to me like we were trying to keep possession yesterday? It looked very much like backs to the wall, low block, just without the 2 goal lead, like we had against Arsenal and against a team that, unlike Arsenal, had an ariel threat from crosses. Also why immediately after they scored were we able to again be dominant without changing the team?

The low block, starts with the defence. When they drop back 10 yards deeper then our midfield also have to do the same. If the low block isn’t what Jose wanted then Toby or Dier need to be far more vocal and brave and take a position 10 yards further up the pitch. And even if they fail to Jose should be doing that. The lack of him instructing that from the sidelines yesterday makes me think it was actually what he wanted (despite his protestations otherwise).

We did change the team
We brought in dele and Davies
The formation didn’t change but the approach did and it was instant
We had 3 very good opportunities in that period if you include Davies cross onto the bar, the Kane header and Dier free kick
But I do agree that it’s what Jose wanted as when we did counter we did have numbers, just poor play
Be very interesting against Leicester on Sunday to see how we play with their preference for counter attacking

 

[elltrev]

It didn’t look to me like we were trying to keep possession yesterday? It looked very much like backs to the wall, low block, just without the 2 goal lead, like we had against Arsenal and against a team that, unlike Arsenal, had an ariel threat from crosses. Also why immediately after they scored were we able to again be dominant without changing the team?

The low block, starts with the defence. When they drop back 10 yards deeper then our midfield also have to do the same. If the low block isn’t what Jose wanted then Toby or Dier need to be far more vocal and brave and take a position 10 yards further up the pitch. And even if they fail to Jose should be doing that. The lack of him instructing that from the sidelines yesterday makes me think it was actually what he wanted (despite his protestations otherwise).

All very fair. My post was intended to be less about yesterday specifically, and more about a problem that I think we'll continue to face throughout the season. But maybe I'm wrong about that too - time will tell!

 

[braineclipse]

It didn’t look to me like we were trying to keep possession yesterday? It looked very much like backs to the wall, low block, just without the 2 goal lead, like we had against Arsenal and against a team that, unlike Arsenal, had an ariel threat from crosses. Also why immediately after they scored were we able to again be dominant without changing the team?

The low block, starts with the defence. When they drop back 10 yards deeper then our midfield also have to do the same. If the low block isn’t what Jose wanted then Toby or Dier need to be far more vocal and brave and take a position 10 yards further up the pitch. And even if they fail to Jose should be doing that. The lack of him instructing that from the sidelines yesterday makes me think it was actually what he wanted (despite his protestations otherwise).

I don't think the change after their goal is just tactics. I suspect there's a mental component too, our players perhaps trusting our ability to see out a game a bit too much, getting complacent on terms of attacking. Then being woken up when they equalised.

Most importantly though the change also came because Palace changed their approach after they equalised.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think the change after their goal is just tactics. I suspect there's a mental component too, our players perhaps trusting our ability to see out a game a bit too much, getting complacent on terms of attacking. Then being woken up when they equalised.

Most importantly though the change also came because Palace changed their approach after they equalised.

I don’t think we let palace play after they scored

 

[braineclipse]

I don’t think we let palace play after they scored

What I'm saying is that I don't think that change is only down to us changing our approach (tactics and mentality).

Palace also changed, as most teams do when a game is changed into a draw.

If we had tried doing what we did after the equaliser before the equaliser it might not have worked as well.

 

[braineclipse]

All very fair. My post was intended to be less about yesterday specifically, and more about a problem that I think we'll continue to face throughout the season. But maybe I'm wrong about that too - time will tell!

Agreed. We created very little in that second half up until they scored, that's a problem.

We're very good at sitting back and countering, but when we don't make those counters work it becomes only sitting back.

If we could get control of the ball, more sustained possession, mixed with higher pressing in periods at least, that would be at least a good option to have. It sounds like Mourinho wanted that, but the players couldn't quite make it happen.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It didn’t look to me like we were trying to keep possession yesterday? It looked very much like backs to the wall, low block, just without the 2 goal lead, like we had against Arsenal and against a team that, unlike Arsenal, had an ariel threat from crosses. Also why immediately after they scored were we able to again be dominant without changing the team?

The low block, starts with the defence. When they drop back 10 yards deeper then our midfield also have to do the same. If the low block isn’t what Jose wanted then Toby or Dier need to be far more vocal and brave and take a position 10 yards further up the pitch. And even if they fail to Jose should be doing that. The lack of him instructing that from the sidelines yesterday makes me think it was actually what he wanted (despite his protestations otherwise).

I think the change in the flow of the game was quite weird if it happened without tactical changes. Jose has said we didn't drop deep on instruction?

Like you i'm not so sure. And i wouldn't even be critical if he did instruct a low block. (and lets face it, its not like he hasn't been a 'lets hold what we have type of manager in many games over the years). Palace have pace from Zaha Eze Van Arnholt Schlupp, so to condense that space and nullify the threat from that on the counter is a sound plan. The negative side of that began to show when from their more advanced position up the field they began to throw crosses in and gain free kicks and hence Benteke started to be a real problem. I can see how that side effect may have been overlooked as lets face it Benteke is on the whole...sh*t. What i would say is when this was clearly an issue i thought Rodon should have been introduced. They didn't score until the 81st minute, so plan (or not) it nearly worked. I'd also add that from a low defensive position we'd obviously be hopeful of our counter attacks being there deadly usual self but credit to Palace and in particular the workrate and savvy of Mcarthur and Milivojevic, both well above what Arsenal or City (sans Fernandinho) would offer their teams when it comes to protection.

Overall i think we played well first half and after their goal. Faster movement of the ball, plenty of player movement to enable that. And good chances created. Much better than when we played Brighton, Burnley or West Brom. But there is an irony there. Perfromance wise you could say we played well against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, West Ham, Palace and ended up with draws and the other 3 games i mentioned took home 3 points. Hey ho.

Palace have a decent team this year but even other years we always have a tough game at Selhurst, and i'm sure many of our rivals will as well.

(ps. Always remember when Liverpool imploded there under Rodgers)

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

What I'm saying is that I don't think that change is only down to us changing our approach (tactics and meteorology).

Palace also changed, as most teams do when a game is changed into a draw.

If we had tried doing what we did after the equaliser before the equaliser it might not have worked as well.

The funny thing with that is (not saying youre wrong btw) is after Palace scored you'd think they'd be thinking 'we've got this lot on the rack now (we were)...10mins to win it'

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

All very fair. My post was intended to be less about yesterday specifically, and more about a problem that I think we'll continue to face throughout the season. But maybe I'm wrong about that too - time will tell!

i think thats simply solved by against the lesser teams we hope to get PEH Lo CElso and Ndombele as the 3 CM's

 

[Bishop]

I agree.

I know not everyone likes stats, but for those that do - I found this an interesting illustration of what I (and I'm sure most people) have been seeing with my own eyes - that as well as being decent defensively, Hojbjerg offers so much more in possession than Sissoko:

View attachment 10261

Sissoko's great in games where we're defending and hitting on the break, but not when we're trying to keep possession to defend a lead like Jose said we were yesterday.

(Not saying Sissoko was entirely at fault yesterday, but I think he was part of the problem).

He is bloody awful.

 

[Bishop]

We did change the team
We brought in dele and Davies
The formation didn’t change but the approach did and it was instant
We had 3 very good opportunities in that period if you include Davies cross onto the bar, the Kane header and Dier free kick
But I do agree that it’s what Jose wanted as when we did counter we did have numbers, just poor play
Be very interesting against Leicester on Sunday to see how we play with their preference for counter attacking

I don't know if I buy that we changed things. We changed personnel but the system and shape was pretty much the same just staffed with players with slightly different attributes. I don't think they directly made much of a difference versus th difference I saw him Hojberg pushing much further forward after their goal. Likewise we saw Dier sit on the halfway line and try and keep Palace pended that I think had more of an effect than Dele or Davies who both barely touched the ball in their short time on the pitch.

@Finney Is Back I wonder if Jose was stuck between a rock and a hard place. He may not have intended to sit in the low block but as the game developed and we had the lead he might not have wanted to changed the composition of the midfield (which I think we thought was the obvious route to go down) with the concern that we might have gotten weaker there. In the end he was reactive rather than proactive. He obviously thought we would be able ton hold out but it didn't quite work this time.

It's not a terrible way of thinking, but not a plan that I would encourage. Any time we just have a single goal lead it just takes that one mistake to even things out. I hope the next time we are in this situation we have a better approach and outcome.

 

[Nigeyman]

He is bloody awful.

Yet apparently well respected and integral to the dressing room from the documentary.

If anything from yesterday I'd have wanted more from our fullbacks and sonny.

Thought his passing was simple and okay.

Must be a reason Mourinho has him in every time, and Mourinho is a capable coach.