***OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Racist Rent Boys***

[Jordinho]

No, most of them are just anti-Tottenham

No, just pro-narrative. Currently that is Conte being a tactical genius.

 

[DubaiSpur]

No, just pro-narrative. Currently that is Conte being a tactical genius.

Well, Poch had it last season ('Sir Alex's heir', all that stuff) until the capitulation at Saudi Sportswashing Machine, and up until our loss to Leverkusen he was being hailed as one of the top ten coaches in the world by some barely believable FIFA ranking or other. It goes both ways.

 

[Robspur12]

That second half was just putrid. Every header was won by a Chelsea player, every pressing move was executed by a Chelsea player, and every 50-50 fell to a Chelsea player. Our fight, our passion, our heart....everything was gone.

The defining picture of this defeat was the shot of Antonio Conte passionately shouting, cajoling, instructing, gesticulating wildly on the touchline with his team already in the ascendancy...while the man who speaks of nothing but 'passion' in 'futbol' stood there in the foreground, hands in his pockets, cheeks puffed out, silently watching his limp team lose more and more ground in a second half which was all Chelsea's.

And who has more to prove, more to do to build his reputation as a leader of men? Antonio Conte, who has won title after title with Juventus, trophy after trophy, a glittering career already behind him....or Mauricio Pochettino, a man who has won nothing whatsoever, not even a worthless Milk Cup, in his time as a manager? Who has the more cajoling and energizing to do, a man with a team filled with experienced, title-winning players? Or a man with a young team lost and defeated well before the final whistle, looking for some inspiration from anywhere? Who has the more tinkering to do, a man with his side in the lead at home or a man watching his team limply lose every tactical fight of note?

Who has more to do to drag his team to victory?

And yet, who did more?

People will say that there's no point to Conte's gesticulating, that Poch doing it would have been worthless. You couldn't be more wrong. When a team is like ours, spineless and limp, the most useless move of passion and energy assumes a symbolic significance out of all proportion with the mood. A wild tackle made by a slight player on a relative giant, knowing he wouldn't win the ball but desperate to try anyway. A burst down the middle, taking on one, two, three players, trying as hard as possible to fight against the inevitable. A thundering header out, followed by an exhortation to shape up - because it's not over yet.


A manager, shouting and raising hell on the touchline, trying anything to spark some life out of his dejected, surrendering players.

These things have meaning on days like today. Days when it is revealed just how limp our pretensions are. We thought we'd give them a fight, and we did - for one half. We thought we'd give them a game,and we did - for one half. We thought we had a reasonably strong side that could cope with injuries, and we did - for one half.

We thought our lads would show spine and heart, and they did - for one half.

Mauricio Pochettino thought he would be clever and rotate players in the CL, regardless of the limp defeat there, so that we could compete with Chelsea on the weekend, and it worked - for one half.

And then it all collapsed, and it is revealed how far we have to go and how many flaws riddle our squad and our coach.

The unbeaten run is gone - and let's be honest, it was coming, even as we won against Spam. We surrendered it as meekly as possible in that second half. So now we have little to delude ourselves with in terms of our level, and where we really are after seemingly deliberately crashing out of the CL with disgusting glee.

And again, Stamford Bridge remains our bane, a bane Poch has no hope of breaking for yet another season. And I hope that people now understand how monumental it was for Andre Villas-Boas to break our similar hoodoo at Old f*cking Trafford, against a legendary coach in Sir Alex Ferguson - it's a profoundly difficult feat to get mentally weak Tottenham Hotspur to ever break a hoodoo of any sort, and he did it. I hope people understand how magnificent it was when Harry did the same in the most dramatic of ways at the Emirates in 2010-2011 - to not only win, but to come from behind and do it, was breathtaking, a real watershed moment.

Those are the moments that define our evolution as a team - the crossing of those mental Rubicons which Spurs harbor more persistently than any other team. Mentally, we have always been weak - it is the coaches that help us transcend that weakness that are remembered. At Stamford Bridge, Poch has received a lesson in how difficult it remains to break those hurdles.

He'll come out in the post-match presser and talk about how we showed quality and had chances and could have drawn or won or whatever, but the truth is, we gave the second half to Chelsea, and we deserved nothing on the back of that fact. And that is scarier to me than a surrender from the start would have been, because I can't conceive how he could take a team which had fought so admirably for the first half and turn it into the spineless ghost which hovered on the field for the second. He had it half right, and he turned it wrong. And I won't take any excuses about fitness or energy, because he *deliberately* rested players against Monaco, and he *deliberately* left out a perfectly fit player in Sissoko for no f*cking reason.

Mauricio Pochettino failed today, as he failed in the cups against Monaco and against Liverpool. In terms of the league, this is his first failure of the season. And unlike in previous seasons, he cannot claim a lack of backing in the market this time around, so that makes it doubly damning.

Disappointing. Bitterly disappointing. And I expect much, much better from him than this. He has no excuses for it.

You are much better than this nonsense Dubai. I normally love reading your posts. You know we are all disappointed so I come on this board to share some thoughts with other people who get how I am feeling at this moment. Critique by all means but why are you unable to cool down then apply a little more restraint and perspective? Instead you spew out so much bile towards this manager I am surprised that you still follow the team. Some of it is quite disgraceful from someone purporting to be a Spurs fan. Bringing up previous managers, comparing him to Conte, what is the point? It's the same after every disappointing result Just wait for this manager to get sacked then presumably you will be relieved.

We are in a rut for sure but also it is the end of November and we have suffered our first loss despite having been decimated by injuries and suspensions and a team that is low on confidence as a result. I am sure you understand that we are punching above our weight against the other top teams around us. Just look at the bench and options that Conte had today, same when we played Arsenal. It will be the same against Man Utd.

Our first eleven is good but even when fit we lack the world class players that the other teams possess. So our manager needs to make this team better than the sum of its parts which Poch has achieved to date. It wouldn't matter if we had Conte as our manager the requirement would be the same, get the best out of a group of players who will all be at least a tier down from world class. We have had that many injuries to key players and suspensions to others it has been almost impossible to build any momentum this season. You need to get some perspective or stay away from the board immediately after the game.

 

[Jordinho]

Well, Poch had it last season ('Sir Alex's heir', all that stuff) until the capitulation at Saudi Sportswashing Machine, and up until our loss to Leverkusen he was being hailed as one of the top ten coaches in the world by some barely believable FIFA ranking or other. It goes both ways.

Just pointing out that the media don't have favourites as much as they have narratives they want to push. Games I watch at home I mostly end up muting the commentary.

 

[nayenezgani]

@DubaiSpur you're such a fudging tiresome cry baby

 

[glasgowspur]

That second half was just putrid. Every header was won by a Chelsea player, every pressing move was executed by a Chelsea player, and every 50-50

The defining picture of this defeat was the shot of Antonio Conte passionately shouting, cajoling, instructing, gesticulating wildly on the touchline with his team already in the ascendancy...while the man who speaks of nothing but 'passion' in 'futbol' stood there in the foreground, hands in his pockets, cheeks puffed out, silently watching his limp team lose more and more ground in a second half which was all Chelsea's.

And who has more to prove, more to do to build his reputation as a leader of men? Antonio Conte, who has won title after title with Juventus, trophy after trophy, a glittering career already behind him....or Mauricio Pochettino, a man who has won nothing whatsoever, not even a worthless Milk Cup, in his time as a manager? Who has the more cajoling and energizing to do, a man with a team filled with experienced, title-winning players? Or a man with a young team lost and defeated well before the final whistle, looking for some inspiration from anywhere? Who has the more tinkering to do, a man with his side in the lead at home or a man watching his team limply lose every tactical fight of note?

Who has more to do to drag his team to victory?

And yet, who did more?

People will say that there's no point to Conte's gesticulating, that Poch doing it would have been worthless. You couldn't be more wrong. When a team is like ours, spineless and limp, the most useless move of passion and energy assumes a symbolic significance out of all proportion with the mood. A wild tackle made by a slight player on a relative giant, knowing he wouldn't win the ball but desperate to try anyway. A burst down the middle, taking on one, two, three players, trying as hard as possible to fight against the inevitable. A thundering header out, followed by an exhortation to shape up - because it's not over yet.


A manager, shouting and raising hell on the touchline, trying anything to spark some life out of his dejected, surrendering players.

These things have meaning on days like today. Days when it is revealed just how limp our pretensions are. We thought we'd give them a fight, and we did - for one half. We thought we'd give them a game,and we did - for one half. We thought we had a reasonably strong side that could cope with injuries, and we did - for one half.

We thought our lads would show spine and heart, and they did - for one half.

Mauricio Pochettino thought he would be clever and rotate players in the CL, regardless of the limp defeat there, so that we could compete with Chelsea on the weekend, and it worked - for one half.

And then it all collapsed, and it is revealed how far we have to go and how many flaws riddle our squad and our coach.

The unbeaten run is gone - and let's be honest, it was coming, even as we won against Spam. We surrendered it as meekly as possible in that second half. So now we have little to delude ourselves with in terms of our level, and where we really are after seemingly deliberately crashing out of the CL with disgusting glee.

And again, Stamford Bridge remains our bane, a bane Poch has no hope of breaking for yet another season. And I hope that people now understand how monumental it was for Andre Villas-Boas to break our similar hoodoo at Old f*cking Trafford, against a legendary coach in Sir Alex Ferguson - it's a profoundly difficult feat to get mentally weak Tottenham Hotspur to ever break a hoodoo of any sort, and he did it. I hope people understand how magnificent it was when Harry did the same in the most dramatic of ways at the Emirates in 2010-2011 - to not only win, but to come from behind and do it, was breathtaking, a real watershed moment.

Those are the moments that define our evolution as a team - the crossing of those mental Rubicons which Spurs harbor more persistently than any other team. Mentally, we have always been weak - it is the coaches that help us transcend that weakness that are remembered. At Stamford Bridge, Poch has received a lesson in how difficult it remains to break those hurdles.

He'll come out in the post-match presser and talk about how we showed quality and had chances and could have drawn or won or whatever, but the truth is, we gave the second half to Chelsea, and we deserved nothing on the back of that fact. And that is scarier to me than a surrender from the start would have been, because I can't conceive how he could take a team which had fought so admirably for the first half and turn it into the spineless ghost which hovered on the field for the second. He had it half right, and he turned it wrong. And I won't take any excuses about fitness or energy, because he *deliberately* rested players against Monaco, and he *deliberately* left out a perfectly fit player in Sissoko for no f*cking reason.

Mauricio Pochettino failed today, as he failed in the cups against Monaco and against Liverpool. In terms of the league, this is his first failure of the season. And unlike in previous seasons, he cannot claim a lack of backing in the market this time around, so that makes it doubly damning.

Disappointing. Bitterly disappointing. And I expect much, much better from him than this. He has no excuses for it.

Ok your hurting, i get it but that's a load of bollox.

 

[DubaiSpur]

You are much better than this nonsense Dubai. I normally love reading your posts. You know we are all disappointed so I come on this board to share some thoughts with other people who get how I am feeling at this moment. Critique by all means but why are you unable to cool down a little then apply a little more restraint and perspective? Instead you spew out so much bile towards this manager I am surprised that you still follow the team. Some of it is quite disgraceful from someone purporting to be a Spurs fan. Bringing up previous managers, comparing him to Conte, what is the point? It's the same after every disappointing result Just wait for this manager to get sacked then presumably you will be relieved.

We are in a rut for sure but also it is the end of November and we have suffered our first loss despite having been decimated by injuries and suspensions and a team that are low in confidence as a result. I am sure you understand that we are punching above our weight against the other top teams around us. Just look at the bench and options that Conte had today, same when we played Arsenal. It will be the same against Man Utd. Our first eleven is good but even when fit we lack the world class players that the other teams possess. You need to get some perspective or stay away from the board immediately after the game.

Eh. To be honest, mate, I'm well past the point at which justifying my opinions is an appealing option, given that I take the effort to point out nuances in my stances and praise the people I criticize elsewhere and *still* sometimes end up having my status as a fan questioned when I seemingly transgress against the chosen idols of the group-think that sometimes permeates all football discussion, not just here or in the Spurs community more broadly. It happened for years with Levy when I called for him to back our managers, and it stopped when I happily praised him for finally doing so - now, apparently, it's criticizing Poch that apparently is a transgression upon the sacred cow that we as Spurs fans cannot approach. That whole time, my rationale was simple - I criticize when it's worth criticizing, I praise when it's worth praising. I don't hold back, either way.

No one particularly questioned me when I happily praised the man for being tactically innovative when we went with three-man backline against the Scum, something I honestly didn't expect and was very impressed by. You certainly didn't, mate. And I said then that I'd have praised him for it even if we'd lost.

Now, however, I question his powerlessness in the face of a team that needed his cajoling and encouragement more than ever as they shrank into themselves in the face of a determined Chelsea side, and you come out with this stuff about 'bile' and are seemingly angry that I compared him not only to his direct opponent, but also to our past managers - why that is, I don't know (are they such wretched individuals that Poch cannot possibly be compared to them, or is Poch so gloriously skilled that he's beyond comparison?). Either way, it's pointless to try to defend myself against those sorts of accusations. Not meant as a dig at you alone, mate, and I'm glad you usually enjoy my posts - but honestly, it's not worth the effort it takes to painstakingly explain what ultimately boils down to 'I call it as I see it - good or bad'. With Levy, Poch or anyone else.

For what it's worth, you're the one talking about sacking, not me. If Poch finishes mid-table or lower this season, or indeed fails to make the top four/win a trophy, he'll still have done about on par for me over the course of his tenure. His first season can't be judged because he'd just come in and it wasn't his team, his second season was largely a success only blemished by a late collapse, and if his third is a bad one, it won't wipe out the credit from the second. So, if this season isn't up to scratch, I only expect him to do better in season four of his tenure here.

But I know that either way I'll be accused of either hating the man or not being a real Spurs fan, or whatever. So there's little point in adding disclaimers to my posts all the time stating that 'I think he's doing a fairly good job despite the reservations I have with him' or something, because people will take any criticism the way they want to see it when it approaches their chosen sacred idols. Lord knows, I do when it comes to things I'm passionate about. So I don't even particularly hold it against those people who do anymore. @nayenezgani, love you too, mate.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Just pointing out that the media don't have favourites as much as they have narratives they want to push. Games I watch at home I mostly end up muting the commentary.

True. Which is why it's important to tell them to sod off and grow the siege mentality that Sir Alex once instilled in his United side.

Ok your hurting, i get it but that's a load of bollox.

I'm hurting - I know you are too, we all are. But thanks for the deep insight, fella.

 

[Gazza's free kick]

Outclassed today in the end, they were brick and still won. The managers totally fudged up the champs league this season. We was unbelievably lucky to beat West Ham and he's bought a load of brick in the transfer market this summer. Players knackered 2nd half playing this pressing game. Few more bad results and he's gotta go I'm afraid

 

[Robspur12]

Eh. To be honest, mate, I'm well past the point at which justifying my opinions is an appealing option, given that I take the effort to point out nuances in my stances and praise the people I criticize elsewhere and *still* sometimes end up having my status as a fan questioned when I seemingly transgress against the chosen idols of the group-think that sometimes permeates all football discussion, not just here or in the Spurs community more broadly. It happened for years with Levy when I called for him to back our managers, and it stopped when I happily praised him for finally doing so - now, apparently, it's criticizing Poch that apparently is a transgression upon the sacred cow that we as Spurs fans cannot approach. That whole time, my rationale was simple - I criticize when it's worth criticizing, I praise when it's worth praising. I don't hold back, either way.

No one particularly questioned me when I happily praised the man for being tactically innovative when we went with three-man backline against the Scum, something I honestly didn't expect and was very impressed by. You certainly didn't, mate. And I said then that I'd have praised him for it even if we'd lost.

Now, however, I question his powerlessness in the face of a team that needed his cajoling and encouragement more than ever as they shrank into themselves in the face of a determined Chelsea side, and you come out with this stuff about 'bile' and are seemingly angry that I compared him not only to his direct opponent, but also to our past managers - why that is, I don't know (are they such wretched individuals that Poch cannot possibly be compared to them, or is Poch so gloriously skilled that he's beyond comparison?). Either way, it's pointless to try to defend myself against those sorts of accusations. Not meant as a dig at you alone, mate, and I'm glad you usually enjoy my posts - but honestly, it's not worth the effort it takes to painstakingly explain what ultimately boils down to 'I call it as I see it - good or bad'. With Levy, Poch or anyone else.

For what it's worth, you're the one talking about sacking, not me. If Poch finishes mid-table or lower this season, or indeed fails to make the top four/win a trophy, he'll still have done about on par for me over the course of his tenure. His first season can't be judged because he'd just come in and it wasn't his team, his second season was largely a success only blemished by a late collapse, and if his third is a bad one, it won't wipe out the credit from the second. So, if this season isn't up to scratch, I only expect him to do better in season four of his tenure here.

But I know that either way I'll be accused of either hating the man or not being a real Spurs fan, or whatever. So there's little point in adding disclaimers to my posts all the time stating that 'I think he's doing a fairly good job despite the reservations I have with him' or something, because people will take any criticism the way they want to see it when it approaches their chosen sacred idols. Lord knows, I do when it comes to things I'm passionate about. So I don't even particularly hold it against those people who do anymore. @nayenezgani, love you too, mate.

Dubai my apologies mate I wouldn't question that you are a Spurs fan and a passionate fan at that. As I said I love reading your posts and I think you are often not far off the mark with your critiques. Neither do I have anything a fair and balanced criticism of Poch. But your post was not balanced, nor nuanced just a spiteful rant and as I said you are so much better than that.

 

[diego_maradona]

I'm confident. Wouldn't be surprised to see us win a quite a few on the spin now. We were good today for the most part. Keep the faith

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm confident. Wouldn't be surprised to see us win a quite a few on the spin now. We were good today for the most part. Keep the faith

I thought we played well and agree

We were missing a lot of players, playing after a brick midweek result and played a lot of good football

We need to simplify it sometimes (especially Alli) and Poch needs to sort out whatever is going on with eriksen that means he can't be subbed

 

[DubaiSpur]

Dubai my apologies mate I wouldn't question that you are a Spurs fan and a passionate fan at that. As I said I love reading your posts and I think you are often not far off the mark with your critiques. Neither do I have anything a fair and balanced criticism of Poch. But your post was not balanced, nor nuanced just a rant and as I said you are so much better than that.

I know, mate - I don't hold anything against you. Deep down, we're all Spurs fans, and I've lost count of the number of times I've agreed with people who I've viciously disagreed with in more heated times - and the same's happened more times than I can count in the other direction. We're all at our most heated at times like these, and I hold no rancor either way after a long time spent arguing with fellow fans both in person and online. I only wish people wouldn't throw about that whole 'you're not a true fan' thing with such abandon, because it could really hurt people who feel like they're being ostracised for holding different views.

But my post made some essential points that I'm still not convinced aren't broadly true. We needed a bit of fight from the touchline, which was largely absent. Previous managers have broken hoodoos that have dogged us for years, namely at the Emirates and Old Trafford, and haven't gotten the credit they deserve for it - Poch hasn't managed it yet, at Stamford Bridge in particular, and it's important to note now how much of an achievement those previous banishments were. For a man who speaks of passion as being everything in football, it isn't sufficient to get away with 'we were the better team' when we clearly weren't, and were outfought in the second half - that's a motivation/energy issue. And, finally, every manager makes gambles - Poch made a gamble on CL progression, and it backfired on him horribly. It's not anathema to the idea of him being a good manager to point it out - it was a mistake, a horrible one, and cannot be rushed over when the accounting's done at the end of the season, especially given that he's had backing our previous managers haven't had.

You're welcome to refute those points, if you'd like - I'm always interested in giving due attention to what others have to say here, and discussing it at length accordingly. Of course, posts like @glasgowspur 's aren't exactly useful in that regard, but you take the highs with the lows. I'll add that the only exception to my general acceptance of posts questioning my assertions is when someone directly lobs accusations at me without bothering to read or address any of the points I make - that's when I lose patience with braindead ars*wipes like that, although thankfully they're usually very rare here.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

@dubaispurs I get where your coming from but for me today that was a great performance let down by some errors

Chelsea fans coming out where crowing like they were amazing yet I thought they were outplayed for 70 mins and had a spell after their first goal that won them the game. People will say that's how win the league, but we will see

One things for sure today we played the way we should be playing and it worked even missing so many players. Play like that in most games and we will be turning over a lot more wins.

 

[Robspur12]

I know, mate - I don't hold anything against you. Deep down, we're all Spurs fans, and I've lost count of the number of times I've agreed with people who I've viciously disagreed with in more heated times - and the same's happened more times than I can count in the other direction. We're all at our most heated at times like these, and I hold no rancor either way after a long time spent arguing with fellow fans both in person and online. I only wish people wouldn't throw about that whole 'you're not a true fan' thing with such abandon, because it could really hurt people who feel like they're being ostracised for holding different views.

But my post made some essential points that I'm still not convinced aren't broadly true. We needed a bit of fight from the touchline, which was largely absent. Previous managers have broken hoodoos that have dogged us for years, namely at the Emirates and Old Trafford, and haven't gotten the credit they deserve for it - Poch hasn't managed it yet, at Stamford Bridge in particular, and it's important to note now how much of an achievement those previous banishments were. For a man who speaks of passion as being everything in football, it isn't sufficient to get away with 'we were the better team' when we clearly weren't, and were outfought in the second half - that's a motivation/energy issue. And, finally, every manager makes gambles - Poch made a gamble on CL progression, and it backfired on him horribly. It's not anathema to the idea of him being a good manager to point it out - it was a mistake, a horrible one, and cannot be rushed over when the accounting's done at the end of the season, especially given that he's had backing our previous managers haven't had.

You're welcome to refute those points, if you'd like - I'm always interested in giving due attention to what others have to say here, and discussing it at length accordingly. Of course, posts like @glasgowspur 's aren't exactly useful in that regard, but you take the highs with the lows.

I don't believe today was the day to be breaking hoodoos your expectation level was too high. Chelsea are bang in form and had few injuries while the opposite was true for us. The last game at the bridge was the one we should have won. However we were more controlled this time we all saw what happened when we showed "passion" last time around at the bridge.

We missed Danny Rose's drive down the left. Dembele had a poor game today and was unable to carry the fight to them like he usually does. Dier's form has gone through the floor. I felt Poch made a mistake to take off Son and Alli. Perhaps I would have subbed Dembele for George-Kevin put Alli along side wanyama.

But actually it was one moment of magic by Pedro (dier should have been tighter) and a bit of luck that saw us lose this game. Do I think that Poch jumping up and down on the bye line like Conte would have made a difference? Absolutely not.

 

[StephenH]

In the first half. In the first half, I agree. I cannot agree with the second half being described as an improvement in any way, shape or form. It undid all the good work of the first half, and I'm struggling to understand how Poch could let that happen.

I'm fine with moving on, but I hope people don't whitewash what happened here, and over the past week. Poch tried to be clever and rotate against Monaco. He failed there. He came to the Bridge having prioritised this game, and the players no doubt wanted to get revenge for last season. After a good first half, he failed again to stem the tide, and lost both the unbeaten run and any pretense of ending our run at the Bridge in a limp, spineless second half.

He *failed*. He will probably learn from this set of mistakes and self-delusions, but he failed here, and we shouldn't rush to forget it at the end of the season. It's fine to forget quickly and ascribe a lot of losses to extraneous reasons when the manager's working with a squad he doesn't want/like, or when he hasn't been backed. I don't think he has those excuses anymore.

And if people are uncomfortable with the level of scrutiny I'm advocating, why? It's what AVB and Harry were put under, and both those coaches had less backing than Poch has now received.

What the majority of people are truly fed up is changing managers.
We will always be under the cosh when playing the richer clubs with their greater financial muscle.
Look at the far greater qualities thier bench had.

We gave it a good go especially in the first half. Week off now to get some squad rest and and physical healing.

Chin up.

 

[DubaiSpur]

@dubaispurs I get where your coming from but for me today that was a great performance let down by some errors

Chelsea fans coming out where crowing like they were amazing yet I thought they were outplayed for 70 mins and had a spell after their first goal that won them the game. People will say that's how win the league, but we will see

One things for sure today we played the way we should be playing and it worked even missing so many players. Play like that in most games and we will be turning over a lot more wins.

For the first half, I agree. We outplayed them, outfought them, outpressed them - it was exactly what I wanted to see.

Second half, right from the get go, they did the same to us. It was black and white in terms of the difference - I was honestly gobsmacked. Chelsea deserved the point at least, probably all three if we're accounting for the fact that they equalised while we were on top (which shouldn't have happened) and then used their own period of dominance to take the lead, a lead we couldn't pull back.

I don't like seeing us being outfought. Least of all by the team that, by rights, we should be utterly smashing, breaking bones and looking fierce about it after what they did last season. We went down like limp rags in the second half, and Poch stood there and watched it happen. That's not on, Poch.

We go back to the absolute basics now - play like we did in the first half, and have Toby back to give Wimmer/Dier/Verts a *brain* to help out with their otherwise shaky as hell defending. That will solve a lot of our issues.

But it won't hide the fact that this major test (of two games in quick succession against Monaco and Chelsea) is one Poch failed. In the future, I expect much, much better from him. And, to be honest, I expected better from him than to claim that we were the better side, because we really weren't. To his credit, he said straight up that he'd take the criticism he is going to receive for his rotation against Monaco, because it didn't work and that's how football operates. Good on him for recognisin that. But if he really believes that we were the better side, he's refusing to see what happened in that second half.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

For the first half, I agree. We outplayed them, outfought them, outpressed them - it was exactly what I wanted to see.

Second half, right from the get go, they did the same to us. It was black and white in terms of the difference - I was honestly gobsmacked. Chelsea deserved the point at least, probably all three if we're accounting for the fact that they equalised while we were on top (which shouldn't have happened) and then used their own period of dominance to take the lead, a lead we couldn't pull back.

I don't like seeing us being outfought. Least of all by the team that, by rights, we should be utterly smashing, breaking bones and looking fierce about it after what they did last season. We went down like limp rags in the second half, and Poch stood there and watched it happen. That's not on, Poch.

We go back to the absolute basics now - play like we did in the first half, and have Toby back to give Wimmer/Dier/Verts a *brain* to help out with their otherwise shaky as hell defending. That will solve a lot of our issues.

But it won't hide the fact that this major test (of two games in quick succession against Monaco and Chelsea) is one Poch failed. In the future, I expect much, much better from him. And, to be honest, I expected better from him than to claim that we were the better side, because we really weren't. To his credit, he said straight up that he'd take the criticism he is going to receive for his rotation against Monaco, because it didn't work and that's how football operates. Good on him for recognisin that. But if he really believes that we were the better side, he's refusing to see what happened in that second half.

I didn't think we were outfought but I was sat in the upper tier so my view may be different

I thought we probed but looked tired in the second half. I thought erisken was woeful and needs an absolute rocket. What needs to be done for him to be subbed

I thought their second goal came as they were doing the right things buy after that they didn't hit the target once

 

[DubaiSpur]

I don't believe today was the day to be breaking hoodoos your expectation level was too high. Chelsea are bang in form and had few injuries while the opposite was true for us. The last game at the bridge was the one we should have won. However we were more controlled this time we all saw what happened when we showed "passion" last time around at the bridge.

We missed Danny Rose's drive down the left. Dembele had a poor game today and was unable to carry the fight to them like he usually does. Dier's form has gone through the floor. I felt Poch made a mistake to take off Son and Alli. Perhaps I would have subbed Dembele for George-Kevin put Alli along side wanyama.

But actually it was one moment of magic by Pedro (dier should have been tighter) and a bit of luck that saw us lose this game. Do I think that Poch jumping up and down on the bye line like Conte would have made a difference? Absolutely wrong.

Dier's form, as I said, is down to not having Toby around - I honestly don't blame him or Verts for the goals we're now shipping in abundance (six in our last three), because they simply do not have the heads necessary to defend when Toby isn't around. It's a deficiency that can't be addressed. Son going off, I actually agreed with - why Winks was on in his place though, I don't know, because the logical swap would be N'Koudou for Son.

I didn't expect us to break hoodoos - I pointed out that we have them, that THFC as a club is prone to them more than other clubs. That remains true to my mind - mentally, there is something up with this club, something I can't quite explain but which lurks like a miasma over the players and the staff, whomever they may be. But, having said that, this was the best opportunity of breaking the one at Stamford Bridge, because I figured a) we'd be itching for revenge, b) Chelsea would underestimate us, and c) Poch would have the luxury of the players he rested in the limp defeat to Monaco being available for this one. Either way, I wouldn't have minded how we ended up had we only fought from minute 1 to minute 90.

And I didn't see that, which makes me sad - I saw it for the first 45, and it made me really happy, and then it disappeared from then on. It wasn't just Pedro's goal and Moses being given the freedom of the City of London to stick his goal away - it was the fact that they won every 50-50 and header from the minute the second half started until the moment it finished.

And I do think Poch jumping around would have made a difference. Looking at Conte and Klopp (who also does it), they're not stupid - they do it for a reason. And they do it despite having squads and players far older, more mentally strong and experienced than ours. What, is Poch too good to do what Conte does? It's just one of those shots that irked me - Conte gesticulating like mad, pumping up the crowd, looking *invested* even at 2-1 up, while Poch looked on, cheeks puffed out, arms folded, watching silently as the ball was sent into our half with unceasing regularity.

What the majority of people are truly fed up is changing managers.
We will always be under the cosh when playing the richer clubs with their greater financial muscle.
Look at the far greater qualities thier bench had.

We gave it a good go especially in the first half. Week off now to get some squad rest and and physical healing.

Chin up.

Sure. Don't change the manager, I'm somewhat tired of that too. We'd do well to recognise, however, that he is far from perfect, and it's really okay to say it imo. If he underperforms this season, I don't really care - I'd still expect him to be here for the entirety of next season as well, since he has 'credit' from last season and we need to give him as much time as possible. Maybe even keep him on if he underperforms next season as well, because we'll need a stable hand while the stadium transition is underway.

But he isn't perfect, and he makes mistakes - this week was a big one. We did it give it a good go in the first half, but I can't really understand why that all went to sh*t in the second half despite our rotation and what should have been a desire for revenge against the plastic cowardly Nazi c*nts.

Edit:

I didn't think we were outfought but I was sat in the upper tier so my view may be different

I thought we probed but looked tired in the second half. I thought erisken was woeful and needs an absolute rocket. What needs to be done for him to be subbed

I thought their second goal came as they were doing the right things buy after that they didn't hit the target once

Well, I can think of about eight instances where we lost headers we were expected to win, to the point where the commentators picked up on it - I also was astonished at how often we'd lose the 50-50, and how often they glided past our challenges; challenges that, in the first half, we were snapping into with real vigor and tenacity.

They didn't hit the target, but they opened us up quite often, only to sky it at the end or send it wide (I can remember Costa's free header from the cross by Alonso, Willian sky-ing it after the cut-back, and Oscar's breakway). In each case, our challenges and pressing grew more and more ineffectual.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The played on the counter after their second goal and had some shots I agree but this soanmed them highs and wide

They then sat 8 men behind the and asked us to break them down. It's why I didn't get the winks sub and we needed an attacked on

They won their fair share of headers I agree but they hardly made a tackle. When they win the ball it was invariably as a result of a move breaking down or from a corner as were awful at them

They didn't play 3-4-3 either they okayed 5-3-2 for most if that ahem as the were over back when we played well and then sat back after the lead.