** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Forest **

[Baleforce]

Trent is poor defensively, but he more than makes up for it with his attacking play.

The reverse can be equally true.

I'm no expert on the club, but I expect if you ask a dipper what the key moment of the CL final was, they will call out a defensive mistake from a wing back.

 

[Lilbaz]

Liverpool’s full backs regularly chip in with 10+ assists each. Cancelo gets a similar amount for Emirates Marketing Project. I’d be shocked if Royal gets anywhere near that. Perisic could though if he’s first choice regularly.

Emerson and perisic have 1 each this season. Emerson really should have 2 but you can't assist an og. It's only 4 games in, so who knows they could get 10 each at this rate.

 

[Grays_1890]

I think overall we compare quite favourably with our rivals, football happens in two directions, an advantage in attack offset by our advantage in defence, a clean sheet is worth more in the PL than a goal.

We're not relying on one player to score goals, we have 3 regular goal scorers there and Richarlison on the bench.

This original point of the discussion was relative performance of the players against what we have seen from them previously. I think, specific players are performing way below their ability, and the performance against Forest would have been less stressful for us watching were that not the case.

But in comparison to our rivals where say Reese James had 9 assists and 2 goals last year or TAA, Robertson our FBs provide very little, so there is a HUGE over reliance on the front three which means when they have bad games, all players do its overly emphasized because others frankly don't provide in an attacking form.

 

[Baleforce]

They might have a few more if our forwards were splitting runs correctly.

 

[Baleforce]

But in comparison to our rivals where say Reese James had 9 assists and 2 goals last year or TAA, Robertson our FBs provide very little, so there is a HUGE over reliance on the front three which means when they have bad games, all players do its overly emphasized because others frankly don't provide in an attacking form.

as I just said above, what are those players giving up defensively, its all about net gain, it doesn't matter how many you score/assist if you can't be part of a clean sheet

 

[Jurgen the German]

Emerson and perisic have 1 each this season. Emerson really should have 2 but you can't assist an og. It's only 4 games in, so who knows they could get 10 each at this rate.

Yeah I was responding to a post claiming they are comparable to our rivals. Over the course of the season I don’t think Royal’s stats will be but I might be wrong.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The reverse can be equally true.

I'm no expert on the club, but I expect if you ask a dipper what the key moment of the CL final was, they will call out a defensive mistake from a wing back.

I think the overall point still stands that we need more from our wing backs going forward. Perisic should help with that. Royal is good defensively but isn’t good enough going forward, it’s not harsh to say that or to believe that Spence will replace him sooner rather than later and provide more of a threat at RWB.

 

[Baleforce]

I think the overall point still stands that we need more from our wing backs going forward. Perisic should help with that. Royal is good defensively but isn’t good enough going forward, it’s not harsh to say that or to believe that Spence will replace him sooner rather than later and provide more of a threat at RWB.

I think Conte is playing Royal for a reason, I think he's happy with the balance, especially with a more offensive minded player on the left hand side.

We might well get more going forward, but we can't risk less going back.

 

[Grays_1890]

as I just said above, what are those players giving up defensively, its all about net gain, it doesn't matter how many you score/assist if you can't be part of a clean sheet

But over a course of a season those teams will generally score more, concede less and finish higher than us

 

[Grays_1890]

I think Conte is playing Royal for a reason, I think he's happy with the balance, especially with a more offensive minded player on the left hand side.

We might well get more going forward, but we can't risk less going back.

But you are being overly black and white there as the offensive issues with Royal is not that he is too defensive, its that his quality on the ball going forward is poor. Its is possible to have people good in both those areas and not expect him to be gung ho but have better quality on the ball. Thats our issue, not the choice of defense verses attack

 

[Baleforce]

But you are being overly black and white there as the offensive issues with Royal is not that he is too defensive, its that his quality on the ball going forward is poor. Its is possible to have people good in both those areas and not expect him to be gung ho but have better quality on the ball. Thats our issue, not the choice of defense verses attack

Who, who do we have to play there who is as strong in the air and has the same engine to get back quickly.

 

[Baleforce]

But over a course of a season those teams will generally score more, concede less and finish higher than us

It's a complicated game, we don't lag behind just because we are playing a good defender at wing back.

Also, since we've moved to this system, and set on Royal there, we have won more points than anyone else right?

 

[Grays_1890]

Who, who do we have to play there who is as strong in the air and has the same engine to get back quickly.

I said previously we needed to improve in those areas and I expected us to in the market, we have to put up with it for now but its relevant to the point that someone with better quality on the ball contributes more, like Perisic and we are not solely reliable on the front three to do all their own work

 

[Jurgen the German]

Who, who do we have to play there who is as strong in the air and has the same engine to get back quickly.

Spence (hopefully) will be the first choice as he’s highly rated.

 

[Baleforce]

Spence (hopefully) will be the first choice as he’s highly rated.

Offensively yes, and he may well be the answer, but Conte will want to see more from him defensively first I expect.

 

[Grays_1890]

It's a complicated game, we don't lag behind just because we are playing a good defender at wing back.

Also, since we've moved to this system, and set on Royal there, we have won more points than anyone else right?

I used Royal as an example, I said the same about he CM where we 100% need someone better who can link up between the back and the front three, its all relevant to the point that better sides are not just purely reliant on three players for all of their attacking prowess. And I stick to that point, if we look at times toothless in attack, there is more to that than just he front three having an off day

 

[Baleforce]

I said previously we needed to improve in those areas and I expected us to in the market, we have to put up with it for now but its relevant to the point that someone with better quality on the ball contributes more, like Perisic and we are not solely reliable on the front three to do all their own work

Perisic made a couple of defensive mistakes against Forest, stuff to be worked on there too.

 

[Baleforce]

I used Royal as an example, I said the same about he CM where we 100% need someone better who can link up between the back and the front three, its all relevant to the point that better sides are not just purely reliant on three players for all of their attacking prowess. And I stick to that point, if we look at times toothless in attack, there is more to that than just he front three having an off day

Again, I think Bentancur have PEH have been good this year, they win the ball and launch the break quickly, they have done that well, our front three are not short of touches, it's a very different team to where we were a year ago under Nuno.

I'm looking forward to seeing Bissouma involved too, he should be a plug in guy.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Offensively yes, and he may well be the answer, but Conte will want to see more from him defensively first I expect.

20 years ago you would have been right, but the game has moved on and attacking teams tend to dominate the big leagues and European competitions. You need a balance, but full backs need to provide an outlet and be good going forward almost as important as being good on the other side of the ball, maybe even more important than being good defensively.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I used Royal as an example, I said the same about he CM where we 100% need someone better who can link up between the back and the front three, its all relevant to the point that better sides are not just purely reliant on three players for all of their attacking prowess. And I stick to that point, if we look at times toothless in attack, there is more to that than just he front three having an off day

Great post. Quite a few posters oversimplify things when we lose and say the forwards had an off day which may be true, but they can’t always create everything themselves, they need help in that department from the CM’s and the wingbacks.