**** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Canning Town Bingo Club ****

[90sSpursBook]

I'm not mate, honestly, it at an amusement level now where people clearly don't "want to see" any progress in the team, we need to get 9 new players, manager needs to go, and a bunch of brick that just isn't true (and can be shown to be untrue)

In the middle of our bad run (probably Pool -> Brighton were our worse examples)
- We were slow, bad on the ball, lost our counter attack play of earlier in season
- We didn't keep possession even against brick sides, midfield was being overrun
- We had very few opportunities
- Outside of Kane/Son, no one was scoring (hence the Lucas, Lamela, etc. all suck)
- There were questions about why Bale & Dele weren't getting time

since then (despite the results)

- We move a lot quicker, tempo is better
- We have found our counter attack threat again (Lamela's run yesterday, Lucas goal in Europe, countless times in Everton game)
- We have a lot more possession, even against better sides (West Ham, Everton), not conceding initiative
- Want to count how many opportunities we have had between West Ham, Everton & Europa?
- Lucas, Lamela, Vinicius, Sanchez, Aurier, fudge even PEH have gotten on scoresheet vs. earlier in season
- I'd argue we actually look a threat from corners (fudge knows when last that was a thing)
- All of this with only have Reguilon back yesterday and still missing Aurier and Lo Celso (they make a difference)

Again people will pull out XG stats, touches in the box, points totals compared to Poch/AVB, so lets do it again

- Kane 1:1 with keeper yesterday from Lamela pass, Son shot coming on right foot that went over, Lucas hit from cutback to edge of box, Bale hit against crossbar, Lamela hit the keeper had to make a save, Son ball that ended up hitting inside of far post, Dier hit from edge of box, those are just the ones I remember .. but ohh the XG, we don't know how to attack, none from close range (yes, because opposition sat deep all game due to have benefit of gifted lead)
- Then the comparison to previous managers last x number of games, you think this looks anything like the end of Poch or AVB? I remember those games, we weren't trying, we were losing by 5 goal margins and being torn apart at will (teams would walk through our midfield and defence over and over), that isn't what is happening here.

At the end of the day, it is a results business, and if Jose doesn't turn this around Levy will pull the trigger (again, despite whatever people think re the cost of doing it), but to look at the last 5 games and say nothing is improving, the team is clueless, we don't attack enough is just a narrative

All opinions mate, in 3 years, Spurs will be here, I will be here, we won't be relegated, we may be better, we may be worse, I'm not going to choose to make my life unhappy about it.

A lot to agree with here....over the space of the last 5 games (after the turgid and insipid performances and losses to Brighton, Liverpool and Chelsea) we have at least started to play better and more on the front foot - playing a back 4 with Hojbjerg and Ndombele as a pivot - is definitely a sign of a more progressive approach. I actually enjoyed the game yesterday (as I did with Everton) and ultimately the big calls and the vital spin of the ball didn't go for us yesterday - still think the first goal was a foul on Reggie. If that game plays out 5 times we win twice, draw twice and lose one which is sadly how it turned out.

The net result, however, is that we've lost games to Everton, Emirates Marketing Project and West Ham playing this way so it's not been effective.

 

[SpurMeUp]

in not convinced we have CL team now as our weakest parts drag us down quite a long way
But I do agree with your principles though

Two new CBs and another midfielder, some time to settle, and I think we have a potent team. Mourinho should be able to get one CB pair working. He has to. And he has to put faith in them and elevate them. But that was more Poch's bag than Mourinho.

 

[Raziel]

A lot to agree with here....over the space of the last 5 games (after the turgid and insipid performances and losses to Brighton, Liverpool and Chelsea) we have at least started to play better and more on the front foot - playing a back 4 with Hojbjerg and Ndombele as a pivot - is definitely a sign of a more progressive approach. I actually enjoyed the game yesterday (as I did with Everton) and ultimately the big calls and the vital spin of the ball didn't go for us yesterday - still think the first goal was a foul on Reggie. If that game plays out 5 times we win twice, draw twice and lose one which is sadly how it turned out.

The net result, however, is that we've lost games to Everton, Emirates Marketing Project and West Ham playing this way so it's not been effective.

Well, that's the tough call the manager gets to make knowing his job is on the line

- Does he try to change again?
- Or does he look at the progress, the fact that games like Everton & West Ham, 9 times out of 10 we would/should have won, and persist?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Two new CBs and another midfielder, some time to settle, and I think we have a potent team. Mourinho should be able to get one CB pair working. He has to. And he has to put faith in them and elevate them. But that was more Poch's bag than Mourinho.

I agree that the right signings in the right areas will make all the difference
And there very doable
We don’t need best in class players. We need capable players. My only worry is the brain drain on new signings if we have any legacy “mind set” issues

 

[90sSpursBook]

Well, that's the tough call the manager gets to make knowing his job is on the line

- Does he try to change again?
- Or does he look at the progress, the fact that games like Everton & West Ham, 9 times out of 10 we would/should have won, and persist?

I guess you have to look to balance out the games earlier in the season that we won with perhaps an equal element of luck about them - Man C particulalry springs to mind but judging luck is subjective at best. I think, overall, my conclusion is that we were never as good as the league table suggested in November but equally we're not quite as bad as it currently indicates.

 

[90sSpursBook]

Few general points from me re yesterday game:

1. Their first goal is a foul on Reggie. Soucek goes right through him - to quote Mourinho 'it's a modern foul' - Reggie does not act like an 'intelligent clam' he gets straight up and immediately ensures that by being in a position to defend VAR will take no interest. If he stays down and our players make a big fuss of of it VAR at least has to seriously consider it and look on a frame by frame replay which surely results in a foul. (of course had we defended the cross properly this isn't an issue!)

2. A goal that early changes the dynamic of the game - it means its very difficult to work out what either team's game plan was. I thought it took us 20 minutes to establish any sort of pattern of play which is disappointing.

3. West Ham were effective by shutting off Ndombele; they knew he was our tactic of progressing through midfield and managed to negate him meaning we had to play directly into Kane and Son.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Tbh we let too many easy balls into the box from wide areas imv.
I know reggie got taken out so that isn't a great example but look at the space bowen has to cross from. We don't seem to be able to press or we get out numbered and the free man sends in a cross.
We do not work as a unit.

Regi getting taken out didn’t actually impact anything (although a foul should’ve been given). It is Son who has been horribly lazy here and neglected his job.

 

[glasgowspur]

Regi getting taken out didn’t actually impact anything (although a foul should’ve been given). It is Son who has been horribly lazy here and neglected his job.

Reggie getting taken out makes that picture look worse than it is, if he wasn't taken out less there's less space. But it's happening even with a full complement of players.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Reggie getting taken out makes that picture look worse than it is, if he wasn't taken out less there's less space. But it's happening even with a full complement of players.

He would’ve been nowhere near Bowen.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

How brick must Rondon be, to not get a game in the centre of our defence?

 

[parklane1]

I guess you have to look to balance out the games earlier in the season that we won with perhaps an equal element of luck about them - Man C particulalry springs to mind but judging luck is subjective at best. I think, overall, my conclusion is that we were never as good as the league table suggested in November but equally we're not quite as bad as it currently indicates.

One of the most sensible things that has been posted among the ( mostly)hysteria since the game finished.

 

[Raziel]

Regi getting taken out didn’t actually impact anything (although a foul should’ve been given). It is Son who has been horribly lazy here and neglected his job.

Watch the video, Reguilon gets wiped out, several of our players hesitate expecting the foul call, it's that half a second that allows us to be badly positioned to respond to game continuing.

You could argue if they should have hesitated, but to say it didn't impact anything isn't quite true.

 

[90291Spur]

Watch the video, Reguilon gets wiped out, several of our players hesitate expecting the foul call, it's that half a second that allows us to be badly positioned to respond to game continuing.

You could argue if they should have hesitated, but to say it didn't impact anything isn't quite true.

I love PEH, but I noticed him looking around and pointing (he wasn't the only one who didn't perform perfectly at that point). The PEH from earlier in the season (the PEH that hadn't played so many minutes, so frequently), more likely would have been on to closing down the player with the ball.

 

[Raziel]

I love PEH, but I noticed him looking around and pointing (he wasn't the only one who didn't perform perfectly at that point). The PEH from earlier in the season (the PEH that hadn't played so many minutes, so frequently), more likely would have been on to closing down the player with the ball.

I think PEH has played too many games

But as I said, a few players either appealed, or pointed, were in someway distracted by the pure blatancy of the Reguilon wipeout

 

[90sSpursBook]

They either needed to stop completely or harrang the referee and assistant and implore that the foul is given...and then go ballistic when it wasn't or need to completely ignore the incident and defend the situation. Critically they did neither and whilst there are then other factors will result in the goal being scored this first phase affects the next three.
As a referee (at a very rudimentary amateur level!) I know we should never be impacted by players reactions but that there was barely no reaction whatsoever will surely have helped VAR that there was nothing worth looking at. I'm sure had the onfield Referee (who I thought was very poor yesterday) had been made to look at a frame by frame replay he'd have been tempted to awarding a foul.
Like I say the moment Reggie gets back to his feet and is nominally in a position to defend the cross VAR loses any interest in the incident and it doesn't affect the goal being scored. He stays on the ground and there's a case.

 

[Baleforce]

Isn’t VAR supposed to review every goal scoring phase?

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm not mate, honestly, it at an amusement level now where people clearly don't "want to see" any progress in the team, we need to get 9 new players, manager needs to go, and a bunch of brick that just isn't true (and can be shown to be untrue)

In the middle of our bad run (probably Pool -> Brighton were our worse examples)
- We were slow, bad on the ball, lost our counter attack play of earlier in season
- We didn't keep possession even against brick sides, midfield was being overrun
- We had very few opportunities
- Outside of Kane/Son, no one was scoring (hence the Lucas, Lamela, etc. all suck)
- There were questions about why Bale & Dele weren't getting time

since then (despite the results)

- We move a lot quicker, tempo is better
- We have found our counter attack threat again (Lamela's run yesterday, Lucas goal in Europe, countless times in Everton game)
- We have a lot more possession, even against better sides (West Ham, Everton), not conceding initiative
- Want to count how many opportunities we have had between West Ham, Everton & Europa?
- Lucas, Lamela, Vinicius, Sanchez, Aurier, fudge even PEH have gotten on scoresheet vs. earlier in season
- I'd argue we actually look a threat from corners (fudge knows when last that was a thing)
- All of this with only have Reguilon back yesterday and still missing Aurier and Lo Celso (they make a difference)

Again people will pull out XG stats, touches in the box, points totals compared to Poch/AVB, so lets do it again

- Kane 1:1 with keeper yesterday from Lamela pass, Son shot coming on right foot that went over, Lucas hit from cutback to edge of box, Bale hit against crossbar, Lamela hit the keeper had to make a save, Son ball that ended up hitting inside of far post, Dier hit from edge of box, those are just the ones I remember .. but ohh the XG, we don't know how to attack, none from close range (yes, because opposition sat deep all game due to have benefit of gifted lead)
- Then the comparison to previous managers last x number of games, you think this looks anything like the end of Poch or AVB? I remember those games, we weren't trying, we were losing by 5 goal margins and being torn apart at will (teams would walk through our midfield and defence over and over), that isn't what is happening here.

At the end of the day, it is a results business, and if Jose doesn't turn this around Levy will pull the trigger (again, despite whatever people think re the cost of doing it), but to look at the last 5 games and say nothing is improving, the team is clueless, we don't attack enough is just a narrative

All opinions mate, in 3 years, Spurs will be here, I will be here, we won't be relegated, we may be better, we may be worse, I'm not going to choose to make my life unhappy about it.

Appreciate the longer response, I'll just reply to the bold-face.

1 &2) You did say it is a results-driven business. Progress is relative I suppose. The progress in these games has been the slow realization from our Pragmatist In Chief that we are a better side going forward with the ball than sitting off without it. Obviously this is a challenge for Mourino as it is not what he has built his reputation on. In that sense, expecting David Bowie when you have Coldplay is a bit silly, but Chris Martin has the chops to do a blinding version of "Heroes" and as such, I'd be hoping Jose sees that we're better as Starmen not clocks!

3) Yes, I feel the same. Life has dealt some madness to everyone, and for some of us deeper issues yet, so this is all what it is. I remain grateful to them all that we have them right now, it is a public service IMO and a damn important one!

 

[thfcsteff]

Here he is chatting XG in the depths of the West Ham thread!

As a Dier Boo Boy/someone who thinks he simply isn't a central defender, at least not at the top end of the Premier League, Jose really has been overly stubborn on his love for the 'immobile mohawk'. Makes you wonder why he hangs so many other more talented players out to dry for one or two minor errors. Has he got some dirt on Jose from his days growing up in Portugal? Maybe he knows who took Madeline.

You know me. Statto to the end!!!!!

 

[thfcsteff]

Tbh we let too many easy balls into the box from wide areas imv.
I know reggie got taken out so that isn't a great example but look at the space bowen has to cross from. We don't seem to be able to press or we get out numbered and the free man sends in a cross.
We do not work as a unit.

Switched off in so many areas.

 

[glasgowspur]

Appreciate the longer response, I'll just reply to the bold-face.

1 &2) You did say it is a results-driven business. Progress is relative I suppose. The progress in these games has been the slow realization from our Pragmatist In Chief that we are a better side going forward with the ball than sitting off without it. Obviously this is a challenge for Mourino as it is not what he has built his reputation on. In that sense, expecting David Bowie when you have Coldplay is a bit silly, but Chris Martin has the chops to do a blinding version of "Heroes" and as such, I'd be hoping Jose sees that we're better as Starmen not clocks!

3) Yes, I feel the same. Life has dealt some madness to everyone, and for some of us deeper issues yet, so this is all what it is. I remain grateful to them all that we have them right now, it is a public service IMO and a damn important one!

You sir, are dead to me.