**** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Canning Town Bingo Club ****

[billyiddo]

What system suits players who are fundamentally broken
I mean shot of anything that resembles a player worth their merits
You see it with keepers when they start getting the yips they rarely recover
Strikers have these runs and it takes a lucky strike to get them back in form
How do you do that with centre backs and a keeper who are passive and scared
As many have mentioned, how the hell is Rodon not getting a chance I’ll never know. And more so with him not even playing Europa

We need a settled backline first and foremost - different partnerships game to game don't help anyone and will be contributing to the issues. Not only are CBs up in the air but we've seemingly made RB an issue recently too.

It's pick your poison at this stage but Rodon and Alderweireld seems best bet to me - old head with the young player you'd expect to be here in the medium term but I'd be happy with any as long as we just stuck with it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We need a settled backline first and foremost - different partnerships game to game don't help anyone and will be contributing to the issues. Not only are CBs up in the air but we've seemingly made RB an issue recently too.

It's pick your poison at this stage but Rodon and Alderweireld seems best bet to me - old head with the young player you'd expect to be here in the medium term but I'd be happy with any as long as we just stuck with it.

What’s happened to Aurier?

 

[Seedy Ron]

Injured

 

[billyiddo]

What’s happened to Aurier?

Injured but prior to that he seemed to have been in and out of the team?

 

[thfcsteff]

See my point above, the Kane, Son and Moura hits (which all ended in row Z) weren't particularly that hard for them, Kane 1:1 with keeper, Son and Lucas were standard cut back to edge of box shots. Dier's sky was expected and Bale's hit was a really difficult technique that was off by an inch or two.

Not good enough, and the result reflects that, but to me the issue still remains the back

You should listen to the pod tomm, this is an issue we discuss.

I think that our defense is obviously poor, yet the manager insists on not developing our attacking play further than Kane/Son. Makes us easy to defend. And with that, our defense in turn gets battered. That, and not sticking with a partnership/changing all the time, is killing us. I have to wonder if Rodon is ill or something, because he didn't do a whole lot wrong bar the Scouse clanger.

 

[thfcsteff]

XG of 1 says it all.... pathetic!

I think it was .77!!!!!

 

[thfcsteff]

Mate, it's not going anywhere, it's at the point where we got your message, Jose is brick, Lucas is brick, Lamela is brick (and super easy to defend against) and Dele is brilliant

Cool, I'm just amused now ..

Not true. You're aggravated. At least own it ...

 

[awesome dawson]

I think it was .77!!!!!

Here he is chatting XG in the depths of the West Ham thread!

As a Dier Boo Boy/someone who thinks he simply isn't a central defender, at least not at the top end of the Premier League, Jose really has been overly stubborn on his love for the 'immobile mohawk'. Makes you wonder why he hangs so many other more talented players out to dry for one or two minor errors. Has he got some dirt on Jose from his days growing up in Portugal? Maybe he knows who took Madeline.

 

[Raziel]

You should listen to the pod tomm, this is an issue we discuss.

I think that our defense is obviously poor, yet the manager insists on not developing our attacking play further than Kane/Son. Makes us easy to defend. And with that, our defense in turn gets battered. That, and not sticking with a partnership/changing all the time, is killing us. I have to wonder if Rodon is ill or something, because he didn't do a whole lot wrong bar the Scouse clanger.

You see, the issue there is I disagree that you can compensate via more attack, I also disagree that we are easy to defend against (in last few weeks, and I'll explain why). Let's use this game as an example.

- We play something like a 4-2-3-1, with PEH/Ndombele as the 2, Kane up top
- The plan yesterday was clear, we push via Reguilon on left with the midfielder in front of the two (Lamela) pushing through the middle.
- This caused West Ham to overbalance to protecting their right side which more often than not left Tanganga wide open as an outlet/switch of play
- The 3 of PEH, Ndombele & Lamela have been keeping possession and managing tempo much more than the previous options (i.e. Winks/Sissoko)

All of the above worked.

- The issue was, we conceded a sloppy goal, assisted by the ref & VAR completely ignoring a card level foul on Reguilon in build up play
- That allowed an in from, confident team to sit in and defend for their lives, West Ham had pretty much 30% possession for the entire game

Now lets address your theory directly, i.e. -> lets attack more (again using the game as example)

- 1st Half, Tanganga is wide open outlet but isn't very progressive attacking wise, defensively West Ham get nothing on that side all 1st half
- Manager (taking your advice) decides to put on more attacking option with Doherty, immediately two West Ham players get in the box via the right side and score.
- Now Doherty does do a better job attacking in 2nd half, linking with Bale but we are now two down and West Ham has even more to defend.

The point I agree with, is at what place do Dier/Sanchez just get dropped completely?

I'll answer your other point separately re me

 

[Raziel]

Not true. You're aggravated. At least own it ...

I'm not mate, honestly, it at an amusement level now where people clearly don't "want to see" any progress in the team, we need to get 9 new players, manager needs to go, and a bunch of brick that just isn't true (and can be shown to be untrue)

In the middle of our bad run (probably Pool -> Brighton were our worse examples)
- We were slow, bad on the ball, lost our counter attack play of earlier in season
- We didn't keep possession even against brick sides, midfield was being overrun
- We had very few opportunities
- Outside of Kane/Son, no one was scoring (hence the Lucas, Lamela, etc. all suck)
- There were questions about why Bale & Dele weren't getting time

since then (despite the results)

- We move a lot quicker, tempo is better
- We have found our counter attack threat again (Lamela's run yesterday, Lucas goal in Europe, countless times in Everton game)
- We have a lot more possession, even against better sides (West Ham, Everton), not conceding initiative
- Want to count how many opportunities we have had between West Ham, Everton & Europa?
- Lucas, Lamela, Vinicius, Sanchez, Aurier, fudge even PEH have gotten on scoresheet vs. earlier in season
- I'd argue we actually look a threat from corners (fudge knows when last that was a thing)
- All of this with only have Reguilon back yesterday and still missing Aurier and Lo Celso (they make a difference)

Again people will pull out XG stats, touches in the box, points totals compared to Poch/AVB, so lets do it again

- Kane 1:1 with keeper yesterday from Lamela pass, Son shot coming on right foot that went over, Lucas hit from cutback to edge of box, Bale hit against crossbar, Lamela hit the keeper had to make a save, Son ball that ended up hitting inside of far post, Dier hit from edge of box, those are just the ones I remember .. but ohh the XG, we don't know how to attack, none from close range (yes, because opposition sat deep all game due to have benefit of gifted lead)
- Then the comparison to previous managers last x number of games, you think this looks anything like the end of Poch or AVB? I remember those games, we weren't trying, we were losing by 5 goal margins and being torn apart at will (teams would walk through our midfield and defence over and over), that isn't what is happening here.

At the end of the day, it is a results business, and if Jose doesn't turn this around Levy will pull the trigger (again, despite whatever people think re the cost of doing it), but to look at the last 5 games and say nothing is improving, the team is clueless, we don't attack enough is just a narrative

All opinions mate, in 3 years, Spurs will be here, I will be here, we won't be relegated, we may be better, we may be worse, I'm not going to choose to make my life unhappy about it.

 

[elltrev]

I'm not mate, honestly, it at an amusement level now where people clearly don't "want to see" any progress in the team, we need to get 9 new players, manager needs to go, and a bunch of brick that just isn't true (and can be shown to be untrue)

In the middle of our bad run (probably Pool -> Brighton were our worse examples)
- We were slow, bad on the ball, lost our counter attack play of earlier in season
- We didn't keep possession even against brick sides, midfield was being overrun
- We had very few opportunities
- Outside of Kane/Son, no one was scoring (hence the Lucas, Lamela, etc. all suck)
- There were questions about why Bale & Dele weren't getting time

since then (despite the results)

- We move a lot quicker, tempo is better
- We have found our counter attack threat again (Lamela's run yesterday, Lucas goal in Europe, countless times in Everton game)
- We have a lot more possession, even against better sides (West Ham, Everton), not conceding initiative
- Want to count how many opportunities we have had between West Ham, Everton & Europa?
- Lucas, Lamela, Vinicius, Sanchez, Aurier, fudge even PEH have gotten on scoresheet vs. earlier in season
- I'd argue we actually look a threat from corners (fudge knows when last that was a thing)
- All of this with only have Reguilon back yesterday and still missing Aurier and Lo Celso (they make a difference)

Again people will pull out XG stats, touches in the box, points totals compared to Poch/AVB, so lets do it again

- Kane 1:1 with keeper yesterday from Lamela pass, Son shot coming on right foot that went over, Lucas hit from cutback to edge of box, Bale hit against crossbar, Lamela hit the keeper had to make a save, Son ball that ended up hitting inside of far post, Dier hit from edge of box, those are just the ones I remember .. but ohh the XG, we don't know how to attack, none from close range (yes, because opposition sat deep all game due to have benefit of gifted lead)
- Then the comparison to previous managers last x number of games, you think this looks anything like the end of Poch or AVB? I remember those games, we weren't trying, we were losing by 5 goal margins and being torn apart at will (teams would walk through our midfield and defence over and over), that isn't what is happening here.

At the end of the day, it is a results business, and if Jose doesn't turn this around Levy will pull the trigger (again, despite whatever people think re the cost of doing it), but to look at the last 5 games and say nothing is improving, the team is clueless, we don't attack enough is just a narrative

All opinions mate, in 3 years, Spurs will be here, I will be here, we won't be relegated, we may be better, we may be worse, I'm not going to choose to make my life unhappy about it.

I agree we’re looking much better in recent games than vs Liverpool / Brighton / Chelsea.

I still think you’re overrating the chances we created yesterday though. E.g. ‘Kane 1:1 with keeper’ - you mean this?!



Don’t think you can call that a 1:1 with keeper by any definition, and the vast majority of times that shot isn’t going to be a goal (I’d argue even from Harry’s boot!)

 

[billyiddo]

The last 5 games we supposedly look better in possession/attack wise include games against West Brom, West Ham and Everton - three teams that play a low block counter and invite you up the pitch - we looked threatening v Everton as we actually created a lot of good chances not just including the goals and i think most people were impressed (at least with that end of the pitch) but yesterday was just a team peppering the goal without actually creating anything of note - West Ham were happy with that and it was an easy 3 points. No great shame with that as they are the form team atm.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I'm not the one being childish mate, a child expects to win every contest and is devastated by loss, a grown man retains hope but knows worthy efforts may go unrewarded.

I will leave you alone because as I said earlier, your message is clear, your happiness will come when Jose is gone ..

I think that depends who he is replaced with.... I’m not too confident there with our chairman in charge. I suppose he could luck out on a second choice again as he did with Pochettino?

 

[glasgowspur]

I'm not mate, honestly, it at an amusement level now where people clearly don't "want to see" any progress in the team, we need to get 9 new players, manager needs to go, and a bunch of brick that just isn't true (and can be shown to be untrue)

In the middle of our bad run (probably Pool -> Brighton were our worse examples)
- We were slow, bad on the ball, lost our counter attack play of earlier in season
- We didn't keep possession even against brick sides, midfield was being overrun
- We had very few opportunities
- Outside of Kane/Son, no one was scoring (hence the Lucas, Lamela, etc. all suck)
- There were questions about why Bale & Dele weren't getting time

since then (despite the results)

- We move a lot quicker, tempo is better
- We have found our counter attack threat again (Lamela's run yesterday, Lucas goal in Europe, countless times in Everton game)
- We have a lot more possession, even against better sides (West Ham, Everton), not conceding initiative
- Want to count how many opportunities we have had between West Ham, Everton & Europa?
- Lucas, Lamela, Vinicius, Sanchez, Aurier, fudge even PEH have gotten on scoresheet vs. earlier in season
- I'd argue we actually look a threat from corners (fudge knows when last that was a thing)
- All of this with only have Reguilon back yesterday and still missing Aurier and Lo Celso (they make a difference)

Again people will pull out XG stats, touches in the box, points totals compared to Poch/AVB, so lets do it again

- Kane 1:1 with keeper yesterday from Lamela pass, Son shot coming on right foot that went over, Lucas hit from cutback to edge of box, Bale hit against crossbar, Lamela hit the keeper had to make a save, Son ball that ended up hitting inside of far post, Dier hit from edge of box, those are just the ones I remember .. but ohh the XG, we don't know how to attack, none from close range (yes, because opposition sat deep all game due to have benefit of gifted lead)
- Then the comparison to previous managers last x number of games, you think this looks anything like the end of Poch or AVB? I remember those games, we weren't trying, we were losing by 5 goal margins and being torn apart at will (teams would walk through our midfield and defence over and over), that isn't what is happening here.

At the end of the day, it is a results business, and if Jose doesn't turn this around Levy will pull the trigger (again, despite whatever people think re the cost of doing it), but to look at the last 5 games and say nothing is improving, the team is clueless, we don't attack enough is just a narrative

All opinions mate, in 3 years, Spurs will be here, I will be here, we won't be relegated, we may be better, we may be worse, I'm not going to choose to make my life unhappy about it.

I'll start by saying I don't know what the answer is, sometimes I'm not even sure what the question is.
We do not seem to be playing as a team, or even acting like a united squad. It's all very disjointed, fractured even and it has been going on for a good while.
The Jan / Eriksen thing and trippers comment when he left all look like pointers to a deeper issue imho.
These players aren't pulling together and not playing for each other. I don't see any trust in each other.
I keep seeing the "individual mistakes" being thrown out there, there was three players in position to stop the first goal yesterday, that's not an individual mistake.
The punt through the middle that left sanchez on his own after running half the length of the pitch isn't an individual mistake, that's a mistake by the whole defence, a defence that don't care.
Peh has been our stand out player this season, yet now when his form has dropped I don't see anyone supporting him, putting an arm around him and trying to help him out.
I don't follow social media but from what I've seen the dynamic between Dier and dele, one of our strongest, has disappeared.
Something is broken in that squad.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I'm not mate, honestly, it at an amusement level now where people clearly don't "want to see" any progress in the team, we need to get 9 new players, manager needs to go, and a bunch of brick that just isn't true (and can be shown to be untrue)

In the middle of our bad run (probably Pool -> Brighton were our worse examples)
- We were slow, bad on the ball, lost our counter attack play of earlier in season
- We didn't keep possession even against brick sides, midfield was being overrun
- We had very few opportunities
- Outside of Kane/Son, no one was scoring (hence the Lucas, Lamela, etc. all suck)
- There were questions about why Bale & Dele weren't getting time

since then (despite the results)

- We move a lot quicker, tempo is better
- We have found our counter attack threat again (Lamela's run yesterday, Lucas goal in Europe, countless times in Everton game)
- We have a lot more possession, even against better sides (West Ham, Everton), not conceding initiative
- Want to count how many opportunities we have had between West Ham, Everton & Europa?
- Lucas, Lamela, Vinicius, Sanchez, Aurier, fudge even PEH have gotten on scoresheet vs. earlier in season
- I'd argue we actually look a threat from corners (fudge knows when last that was a thing)
- All of this with only have Reguilon back yesterday and still missing Aurier and Lo Celso (they make a difference)

Again people will pull out XG stats, touches in the box, points totals compared to Poch/AVB, so lets do it again

- Kane 1:1 with keeper yesterday from Lamela pass, Son shot coming on right foot that went over, Lucas hit from cutback to edge of box, Bale hit against crossbar, Lamela hit the keeper had to make a save, Son ball that ended up hitting inside of far post, Dier hit from edge of box, those are just the ones I remember .. but ohh the XG, we don't know how to attack, none from close range (yes, because opposition sat deep all game due to have benefit of gifted lead)
- Then the comparison to previous managers last x number of games, you think this looks anything like the end of Poch or AVB? I remember those games, we weren't trying, we were losing by 5 goal margins and being torn apart at will (teams would walk through our midfield and defence over and over), that isn't what is happening here.

At the end of the day, it is a results business, and if Jose doesn't turn this around Levy will pull the trigger (again, despite whatever people think re the cost of doing it), but to look at the last 5 games and say nothing is improving, the team is clueless, we don't attack enough is just a narrative

All opinions mate, in 3 years, Spurs will be here, I will be here, we won't be relegated, we may be better, we may be worse, I'm not going to choose to make my life unhappy about it.

That Kane ‘one on one’ from the Lamela pass yesterday wasn’t a particularly good chance, it wasn’t even a 1 on 1, I would say a 1 in 10 sort of chance at best. Same for the other chances as well, snatched shots under pressure. Our best chance though wouldn’t have registered on XG at all as we didn’t get a shot away at all. When Kane was wide right and had Dele and Son free in the box that should’ve been a goal, Kane delayed too long and then played a poor ball, that should’ve been the equalizer.

I do agree that we have been better this last few games (and certainly much better to watch). We do look a very poorly coached team however with our players being unsure who they are supposed to be picking up when the opposition attack.

I reserve judgement on whether us looking better is the result of a change in tactics or simply that in those games that we looked better we have played teams that sit back, let you have the ball and try to counter attack. It might not be until the Arsenal game that we find out either way.

I like that Jose has finally realised we need a more creative player in there alongside Hojbjerg. I think with Aurier back (hopefully soon) we’ll look a lot better balanced on the right hand side. I wonder whether it will actually be Lo Celso that plays alongside Hojbjerg when he comes back with Ndombele moved further forward again (I say this as I think he is by far the most creative player we have in the squad and having him there would be a huge step up in this respect from the more limited players like Lamela, Moura or Bergwijn who Jose has preferred over Dele).

I really do worry that Jose hasn’t played Rodin. It was weird to stick him in against Mane, Firminho and Sarah against Liverpool (where I thought he actually did well) but then not to play against anybody else since? It’s almost as though he wanted him to fail so he could say ‘I told you he wasn’t ready’. How bad must he be in training to be considered behind our Laurel and Hardy duo of Eric and Dave?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'll start by saying I don't know what the answer is, sometimes I'm not even sure what the question is.
We do not seem to be playing as a team, or even acting like a united squad. It's all very disjointed, fractured even and it has been going on for a good while.
The Jan / Eriksen thing and trippers comment when he left all look like pointers to a deeper issue imho.
These players aren't pulling together and not playing for each other. I don't see any trust in each other.
I keep seeing the "individual mistakes" being thrown out there, there was three players in position to stop the first goal yesterday, that's not an individual mistake.
The punt through the middle that left sanchez on his own after running half the length of the pitch isn't an individual mistake, that's a mistake by the whole defence, a defence that don't care.
Peh has been our stand out player this season, yet now when his form has dropped I don't see anyone supporting him, putting an arm around him and trying to help him out.
I don't follow social media but from what I've seen the dynamic between Dier and dele, one of our strongest, has disappeared.
Something is broken in that squad.

the photos highlight who could have done more just from the 8 outfield players for that first goal

 

[glasgowspur]

View attachment 11106 View attachment 11107

the photos highlight who could have done more just from the 8 outfield players for that first goal

Tbh we let too many easy balls into the box from wide areas imv.
I know reggie got taken out so that isn't a great example but look at the space bowen has to cross from. We don't seem to be able to press or we get out numbered and the free man sends in a cross.
We do not work as a unit.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Tbh we let too many easy balls into the box from wide areas imv.
I know reggie got taken out so that isn't a great example but look at the space bowen has to cross from. We don't seem to be able to press or we get out numbered and the free man sends in a cross.
We do not work as a unit.

Yep it’s a broken team
It’s a combination of coaching issues (players either are getting poorly coached or won’t take it in) and incompetent players

 

[SpurMeUp]

Yep it’s a broken team
It’s a combination of coaching issues (players either are getting poorly coached or won’t take it in) and incompetent players

I think a big big part of it is a consistent team and shape. Then not having a secure backline really undermines the side. You need a defensive foundation and CBs you trust. We have a CL team with CBs who are often playing at Championship level.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think a big big part of it is a consistent team and shape. Then not having a secure backline really undermines the side. You need a defensive foundation and CBs you trust. We have a CL team with CBs who are often playing at Championship level.

in not convinced we have CL team now as our weakest parts drag us down quite a long way
But I do agree with your principles though