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OMT - Spurs v West Ham
- Thread starter parklane1
- Start date
nayenezgani
Jimmy Neighbour
I just want Thursday to come around now so I can forget about this brick-show, dumpster fire.
Diamond Lights
Alan Hutton
FFFFFFFOR FUUUUUCKKKKS SAAAAAKE.
yeh, still annoyed.
yeh, still annoyed.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
It’s a great article TBF
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Kandi1977
Garth Crooks
Except Aurier didn't do anything wrong. Never a FK. And certainly not Højbjerg! He was run over by whoever it was! It should have been Højbjerg who got the FK, not the other way around! Two horrible referee decisions.
That said, we're awful at defending set pieces. THAT'S the issue, not the fk's themselves.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Their not debating whether they are free kicks, just how we manage and deal with them
I fully agree their not free kicks at all (I’m Daniel T in the comments on the article)
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
We need to look at ourselves for defending them but I dont think refs even realise their judgement is fundamentally flawed in the scenarios that see these free kicks being awarded.
They draw no distinction between getting tight to your man and limiting the space they have AND the entirely different scenarios of getting way too tight, partially bundling into the back of them and or attempting to play the ball and kicking their legs in the process.
A player going down in the second scenario is a clear foul but increasingly scenario one plays out (with the defender conscious of not wanting to invoke scenario two) and the attacker just lobs themselves on the floor. The refs then give the foul regardless - why do they do this, its not hard to spot. The defender should actually be awarded a free kick and the attacker booked for diving.
Its all very well people like danny murphy calling it as it is but are they telling the refs this? As I said I suspect the refs havent got the first idea that this is going on and that really baffles no end.
Can I email that dermot gallagher guy? Amazing it takes a member of the general public to bring the fudging obvious to their attention.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
Actually, yes he would. But I don't know if that makes any difference from a goalkeeping standpoint.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Their winning free kicks and its a genuine means of attack against what is now a side that deals with open play attacks really really well
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
They were two different games, though. Saudi Sportswashing Machine we were piling on the pressure and missing chance after chance. We just couldn't finish that day.
Spam we scored 3 in quick succession and took our foot off the gas for 75 minutes!
I'd say the Spam game was the worse of the two and were the players let each other down. The Saudi Sportswashing Machine one was just "one of those days."
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
#metoo
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
Someone should start the thread for it so we can move on.
Agree but I cant find dermot gallagher’s email so I can highlight this to him but tbh surely Jose sees these incidents and will highlight it to the referees association. Just wish they would start booking these players that do it (no doubt we have done it too on occasion) and then just like with the grappling in the penalty area it would soon die out.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
The benefit of hindsight yesterday is wonderful but that is a game that we still win 999 times out of 1,000.
The only real issues I have are us visibly dropping our intensity as though the game was over and our lack of the dark arts and time wasting after West Ham had got it back to 3-1 late on. We were certainly not intelligent cnuts in those last 10 minutes, just stupid ones.
I see Aurier and the centre halves getting the blame in some quarters but I don't think they really did anything wrong (bar some dodgy passes from Sanchez). Sanchez's own goal came from some terrible defensive work from a combination of Regulion and Moura, with Moura probably being more at fault, the player should never be able to get in behind that easily when we are defending deep, that is the whole point of defending deep to not let the opposition in behind. The ball that was then put across goal was going to an unmarked West Ham player so probably would've been a goal anyway, Sanchez did the right thing in trying to head that one off for a corner. The free kick that Aurier conceded shouldn't have been given, he didn't really do anything wrong there, just a weak ref seeing a player go over and guessing. Even then we dealt with the ball in OK and also got to the second ball. I'd have liked Winks to have just hoofed it with his first touch there as that would've been game over but it's a split second decision that he has to make and I guess he felt he could come away with the ball. That is where we need to have a bit more savvy really, it's all well and good wanting to retain possession at most points during the game but when there is under a minute to go it isn't worth the risk. Rose did the same thing with us two nil up away to Arsenal on the stroke of half time last season, when hoofing it away would've seen us go in 2-0 up.
For the first goal Sissoko was certainly at fault, both conceding a completely needless free kick when our players are all in a perfect position and then not jumping for the header. I think it is a fine line between being passive and challenging too much, but at 3-0 up we can afford to not get tight and try to ensure that West Ham have to create something properly instead of giving them the opportunity to get their big men in the box. I do think that we are quite weak generally with our defensive headers and I wonder whether we might be better off going zonal with our four best players in this respect instead of ending up with Sissoko, who isn't good in the air, marking one of their biggest threats?
With hindsight the right subs to make at 3-0 were perhaps Davies and Doherty for Son and Bergwijn. Push Regulion and Aurier to right and left wing and instruct that they always have to help the player behind them, but I think Mourinho felt the game was won and was just protecting a few tired legs as opposed to doing anything clever because West Ham were threatening and being realistic West Ham were not actually threatening at that stage of the game. The other thing to have done perhaps was drop Kane deeper into Ndombele's position and to have put Vinicius on up top, partly to also make us stronger defending set plays. However all of those suggestions are with hindsight to try to think of ways to stop three goals very easily stoppable goals, when one could also argue that despite West Ham pushing up high they were not creating anything to worry us.
It does seem to me though that we lack a dominant arial presence in our penalty area at the moment, this gives teams a good chance against us in games in which they can be second best.... We have lost 5 points now to Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and West Ham because you can throw a ball into the centre of our penalty area and have a decent chance of an unopposed header. Perhaps Rodon is a player that can help us fix that, but I worry that is a lot of expectation to put on a player who has only played at Championship level so far.
Still, I saw a lot of good things in that game and feel we're close to doing very well. Some of our attacking combinations at the moment are fantastic, we just still need to get more savvy with our game management, I am actually surprised that Mourinho hasn't sorted this already as it was the first thing I expected he would improve.
The only real issues I have are us visibly dropping our intensity as though the game was over and our lack of the dark arts and time wasting after West Ham had got it back to 3-1 late on. We were certainly not intelligent cnuts in those last 10 minutes, just stupid ones.
I see Aurier and the centre halves getting the blame in some quarters but I don't think they really did anything wrong (bar some dodgy passes from Sanchez). Sanchez's own goal came from some terrible defensive work from a combination of Regulion and Moura, with Moura probably being more at fault, the player should never be able to get in behind that easily when we are defending deep, that is the whole point of defending deep to not let the opposition in behind. The ball that was then put across goal was going to an unmarked West Ham player so probably would've been a goal anyway, Sanchez did the right thing in trying to head that one off for a corner. The free kick that Aurier conceded shouldn't have been given, he didn't really do anything wrong there, just a weak ref seeing a player go over and guessing. Even then we dealt with the ball in OK and also got to the second ball. I'd have liked Winks to have just hoofed it with his first touch there as that would've been game over but it's a split second decision that he has to make and I guess he felt he could come away with the ball. That is where we need to have a bit more savvy really, it's all well and good wanting to retain possession at most points during the game but when there is under a minute to go it isn't worth the risk. Rose did the same thing with us two nil up away to Arsenal on the stroke of half time last season, when hoofing it away would've seen us go in 2-0 up.
For the first goal Sissoko was certainly at fault, both conceding a completely needless free kick when our players are all in a perfect position and then not jumping for the header. I think it is a fine line between being passive and challenging too much, but at 3-0 up we can afford to not get tight and try to ensure that West Ham have to create something properly instead of giving them the opportunity to get their big men in the box. I do think that we are quite weak generally with our defensive headers and I wonder whether we might be better off going zonal with our four best players in this respect instead of ending up with Sissoko, who isn't good in the air, marking one of their biggest threats?
With hindsight the right subs to make at 3-0 were perhaps Davies and Doherty for Son and Bergwijn. Push Regulion and Aurier to right and left wing and instruct that they always have to help the player behind them, but I think Mourinho felt the game was won and was just protecting a few tired legs as opposed to doing anything clever because West Ham were threatening and being realistic West Ham were not actually threatening at that stage of the game. The other thing to have done perhaps was drop Kane deeper into Ndombele's position and to have put Vinicius on up top, partly to also make us stronger defending set plays. However all of those suggestions are with hindsight to try to think of ways to stop three goals very easily stoppable goals, when one could also argue that despite West Ham pushing up high they were not creating anything to worry us.
It does seem to me though that we lack a dominant arial presence in our penalty area at the moment, this gives teams a good chance against us in games in which they can be second best.... We have lost 5 points now to Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and West Ham because you can throw a ball into the centre of our penalty area and have a decent chance of an unopposed header. Perhaps Rodon is a player that can help us fix that, but I worry that is a lot of expectation to put on a player who has only played at Championship level so far.
Still, I saw a lot of good things in that game and feel we're close to doing very well. Some of our attacking combinations at the moment are fantastic, we just still need to get more savvy with our game management, I am actually surprised that Mourinho hasn't sorted this already as it was the first thing I expected he would improve.
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
It angers me how long this has been happening for though with seemingly no change.
I can remember one in the 4-4 with the goons about 10 years ago where huddlestone was getting tight to van persie, who then just stuffed his arse into huddlestone and then lobbed himself on the floor.
claming ref just like yesterday immediately and instinctively blew his whistle without any thought whatsoever - goon bastards scored from the resulting free kick too.......
I can remember one in the 4-4 with the goons about 10 years ago where huddlestone was getting tight to van persie, who then just stuffed his arse into huddlestone and then lobbed himself on the floor.
claming ref just like yesterday immediately and instinctively blew his whistle without any thought whatsoever - goon bastards scored from the resulting free kick too.......
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
I wonder if we haven’t seen it yet as we still have a relatively new team in essence
We have recruited a lot of new fresh blood that needs bedding in
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
Very good post. I'm usually the first one to criticise Aurier but I thought he was fantastic for 80 mins yesterday and no worse than the others when we started to come apart. The spacegoating of Sanchez is wrong too. Whatever his limitations, the own goal was unlucky. He had to do something or, as you note, it would have been a goal anyway. The real fault was the two lads defending the left side of our box. That was pathetic from them and I hope Jose is replaying it to the squad today.
I'm puzzled by our defending because I never thought I'd see a Mourinho team do what we did yesterday. Towards the end of last season, I thought we looked solid in most games after Sheffield United. For set pieces, we always seemed to have someone in the right place. This season, we've leaked a lot of stupid goals from set pieces and look dodgy time and again. I just don't understand what's changed because this is basic defending.