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Old Guard/Bad Eggs - POLL ADDED

Who do you SELL?

  • Aurier

    Votes: 23 33.8%

  • Davies

    Votes: 39 57.4%

  • Sanchez

    Votes: 31 45.6%

  • Dier

    Votes: 55 80.9%

  • Winks

    Votes: 52 76.5%

  • Sissoko

    Votes: 55 80.9%

  • Lamela

    Votes: 20 29.4%

  • Moura

    Votes: 8 11.8%

  • Dele

    Votes: 32 47.1%
  • Total voters
    68
Gazza said:
Wait, the common denominator is the players with the variables being the managers ...
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Had edited my post.

All managers have to deal with players from the previous regime - Redknapp and Poch both had to do so with the sides which failed the managers before them - they succeeded in doing so.

Redknapp took on a side that finished 11th the season previous , won the league cup and had 2 (?) points from 8 games at the start of the season.

Pochettino took over a side that finished 6th the season prior

Mourinho took over a side that finished 4th the season prior and were runners up in the CL, and started the season with 14 points from 12.
 
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billyiddo said:
People are making a mistake conflating Pochs demise with what we are seeing now, with Poch things had grown stale with the CL final team, that can hardly be the case with Jose can it?

An influx of new players and a new manager/coaching team - all managers have to deal with players from the previous regime - Redknapp and Poch both had to do so with the sides which failed the managers before them - they succeeded in doing so
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No mistake at all, most fans i know agreed that the players had downed tools under Pooch which was what got him sacked, now that have done it again. We had 10 players on the pitch last night that were here under Pooch and although it looked like Jose at the start got them playing again they have fallen back to what was happening under Pooch.

I know you have a hard on for Jose but to dismiss what we can all see with our own eyes ( players not giving of their best just like they did towards the end of Pooch) is sad to see.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
So was Poch then?
I mean Poch and Jose are very different
I just think players being here too long is a problem
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Lets get this straight no chairman IMHO is going to have a fire sale, especially in the current climate.
Mourinho or whoever will have to get a tune out some of these players whatever happens.
There will be no quick fix to the current roster.
 
parklane1 said:
No mistake at all, most fans i know agreed that the players had downed tools under Pooch which was what got him sacked, now that have done it again. We had 10 players on the pitch last night that were here under Pooch and although it looked like Jose at the start got them playing again they have fallen back to what was happening under Pooch.

I know you have a hard on for Jose but to dismiss what we can all see with our own eyes ( players not giving of their best just like they did towards the end of Pooch) is sad to see.
Click to expand...

See my post at the top of the page it covers some of this.

Players downing tools is a symptom/reaction to things not working, not the reason itself.

Poch didnt fail because the players stopped playing for him - he failed because things had grown stale over a long time period and he couldn't get them team playing well and had grown stale himself.

If the players have downed tools for Jose and the Brighton game wasnt a one off then there are different reasons at play as to why that has happened .

That's why you are wrong to conflate the two situations.
 
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billyiddo said:
See my post at the top of the page it covers some of this.

Players downing tools is a symptom/reaction to things not working, not the reason itself.

Poch didnt fail because the players stopped playing for him - he failed because things had grown stale over a long time period and he couldn't get them team playing well and had grown stale himself.

If the players have downed tools for Jose and the Brighton game wasnt a one off then there are different reasons at play as to why that has happened which are different to before.

That's why you are wrong to conflate the two situations.
Click to expand...

This is good!
 
parklane1 said:
No mistake at all, most fans i know agreed that the players had downed tools under Pooch which was what got him sacked, now that have done it again. We had 10 players on the pitch last night that were here under Pooch and although it looked like Jose at the start got them playing again they have fallen back to what was happening under Pooch.

I know you have a hard on for Jose but to dismiss what we can all see with our own eyes ( players not giving of their best just like they did towards the end of Pooch) is sad to see.
Click to expand...

I really don't think they downed tools under Poch. There's no player I looked at and thought "he isn't putting it in". There were a lot of factors behind that situation, the lack of transfers, Poch's public utterances, Poch's demeanour, contract situations. They all went to create a bad atmosphere which had an effect on performances. Allied to the fact that they'd played a very high energy game for years which hit them physically and had fallen at the final hurdle repeatedly which must have taken a mental toll.

Eriksen was the one I'd be closest to describing as downing tools and even at that, in most games he was trying but it just wasn't coming off.
 
billyiddo said:
See my post at the top of the page it covers some of this.

Players downing tools is a symptom/reaction to things not working, not the reason itself.

Poch didnt fail because the players stopped playing for him - he failed because things had grown stale over a long time period and he couldn't get them team playing well and had grown stale himself.

If the players have downed tools for Jose and the Brighton game wasnt a one off then there are different reasons at play as to why that has happened.

That's why you are wrong to conflate the two situations.
Click to expand...

Just let me get this right are you saying that players who have stopped playing for a manager are not the major problem???? Sorry mate but IF that is what you are saying you are 100% wrong. Players are supposed to be Pros and getting payed to do a job and they should ALWAYS give their all, i can understand there MAY be one or two in any job that may not but we have several here at the moment and they also did it for a previous manger.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I really don't think they downed tools under Poch. There's no player I looked at and thought "he isn't putting it in". There were a lot of factors behind that situation, the lack of transfers, Poch's public utterances, Poch's demeanour, contract situations. They all went to create a bad atmosphere which had an effect on performances. Allied to the fact that they'd played a very high energy game for years which hit them physically and had fallen at the final hurdle repeatedly which must have taken a mental toll.

Eriksen was the one I'd be closest to describing as downing tools and even at that, in most games he was trying but it just wasn't coming off.
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Poch’s big problem was he needed a cup win to spice them up!
 
parklane1 said:
Just let me get this right are you saying that players who have stopped playing for a manager are not the major problem???? Sorry mate but IF that is what you are saying you are 400% wrong. Players are supposed to be Pros and getting payed to do a job and they should ALWAYS give their all, i can understand there MAY be one or two in any job that may not but we have several here at the moment and they also did it for a previous manger.
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Im saying there are different reasons why each manager 'lost the players'

Jose eventually lost the players at Chelsea and United too - as do most managers who end up getting sacked - is what it is.

Which players are you pointing the finger at btw?
 
billyiddo said:
Im saying there are different reasons why each manager 'lost the players'

Jose eventually lost the players at Chelsea and United too - as do most managers who end up getting sacked - is what it is.

Which players are you pointing the finger at btw?
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You are right it is what it is, so you are now trying to tell me that the same players who downed tools under Pooch are now downing tools under Jose but for different reasons. Seriouslyo_O
 
parklane1 said:
You are right it is what it is, so you are now trying to tell me that the same players who downed tools under Pooch are now downing tools under Jose but for different reasons. Seriouslyo_O
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Well yeah it's a pretty simple point mate.

Why do you think the players downed tools with Poch?
 
I honestly don't think it's a case of downing tools in the way people use that phrase. It infers the players just don't give a f**k and have made a conscious effort not to try. Good managers create an environment that gets the best out of players. I've heard Poch and Jose both talk about creating a good feeling amongst the squad to do this. If the manager is creating an environment that is resulting in bad feeling, that will impact on performances. I think that's what we are seeing with Jose.
 
billyiddo said:
Well yeah it's a pretty simple point mate.

Why do you think the players downed tools with Poch?
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Well i see you started this tread saying you had left certain players out of the team you wrote " My first XI minus some of the problem players" so i guess you could say you the same ones you choose.

As for the " simple point" i guess you have a better hindsight the me if you are convinced you can for sure say they are different reasons.
 
parklane1 said:
Well i see you started this tread saying you had left certain players out of the team you wrote " My first XI minus some of the problem players" so i guess you could say you the same ones you choose.

As for the " simple point" i guess you have a better hindsight the me if you are convinced you can for sure say they are different reasons.
Click to expand...

Ok mate great thanks for your input
 
StephenH said:
Lets get this straight no chairman IMHO is going to have a fire sale, especially in the current climate.
Mourinho or whoever will have to get a tune out some of these players whatever happens.
There will be no quick fix to the current roster.
Click to expand...
We don’t need a fire sale
We just need rid of some dead wood
 
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