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**Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Spursalot said:
Yes.


So what you're saying is spending the time and effort earning your money is the same as having it handed to you on a silver platter?


Righto.
Click to expand...

What? Where did I say that?

Sure, ~20 years ago you could become great through progression. Not anymore. The reason I used Ferdinand's transfer as an example is to prove that inflated fees were around way before Mansour, and even Abramovich. £30m+ for a goalkeeper? (Buffon) Blaming us for modern football is very narrow-minded.
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

SWP29 said:
What? Where did I say that?

Sure, ~20 years ago you could become great through progression. Not anymore. The reason I used Ferdinand's transfer as an example is to prove that inflated fees were around way before Mansour, and even Abramovich. £30m+ for a goalkeeper? (Buffon) Blaming us for modern football is very narrow-minded.
Click to expand...


Yes, inflated fees are perfectly fine.


You seem to be equating money that Man United as a club earnt, with money that the sheik decided to throw at his play thing.

Capitalism. You earn the money, you spend it. This isn't about 'The Modern Game', this is about clubs getting lucky and through no achievement of their own becoming 'successful' as a rich mans biatch.


I don't blame City for modern football, no. But saying they've done things the 'right' way or the 'only' way is complete and utter gonads.
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Arsenal kinda, sorta got success "the right way" not that long ago, I suppose.

Excuse me while I punch myself in the nuts for saying that.
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Isn't the draws for the CL and EL tomorrow and/or Friday?

Predictions anyone?

I've ot some and I go for:

Arsenal vs Malaga or PSG
Manure vs Porto
Bayern or Schalke vs Real Madrid

EL:

Spurs vs Ajax
Chelski vs Atletico Madrid
 
Spursalot said:
Yes, inflated fees are perfectly fine.


You seem to be equating money that Man United as a club earnt, with money that the sheik decided to throw at his play thing.

Capitalism. You earn the money, you spend it. This isn't about 'The Modern Game', this is about clubs getting lucky and through no achievement of their own becoming 'successful' as a rich mans biatch.


I don't blame City for modern football, no. But saying they've done things the 'right' way or the 'only' way is complete and utter gonads.
Click to expand...

I could prove to you that Manchester United 'bought' their way to their first title. I'm sure some of you might remember them spending disproportionately in the late 80s/early 90s. But I won't go into it, I doubt you're that bothered about my opinions on Manchester United.
It never used to be the only way; in an ideal world, capitalism in football does succeed. But it doesn't, hence why there are calls for 'higher powers' (UEFA) to intercept (FFP). As someone in here already acknowledged, that is doomed to fail, meaning teams will have to adjust or fall behind.

One thing's for sure, even if FFP does pass, the rich are only going to get richer, even if you do take Qataris and Emiratis out of the equation.
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

I'm interested. My opinion on United is they hit the jackpot by being in the spotlight when the Premier League started taking off, and they capitalized the most. Similar to Arsenalaswell

If we were more competitive and not such a basket case in the 90's, we'd be sitting much prettier financially.
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

SWP29 said:
I could prove to you that Manchester United 'bought' their way to their first title. I'm sure some of you might remember them spending disproportionately in the late 80s/early 90s. But I won't go into it, I doubt you're that bothered about my opinions on Manchester United.
It never used to be the only way; in an ideal world, capitalism in football does succeed. But it doesn't, hence why there are calls for 'higher powers' (UEFA) to intercept (FFP). As someone in here already acknowledged, that is doomed to fail, meaning teams will have to adjust or fall behind.

One thing's for sure, even if FFP does pass, the rich are only going to get richer, even if you do take Qataris and Emiratis out of the equation.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure United didn't have bottomless pits of money like Sheikh Mansour has.

United have always been a massive club, and they have made lots and lots of money because of it, same goes for Arsenal too. Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea fans will always cite Spurs spending money in the 60s, or Forrest spending a million pounds on Trevor Francis, but they were basically the only signings those clubs made that season, whereas as you reload and spend hundreds of mlllions every season, except for the last transfer window.
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20770678

Zenit St Petersburg fans want black and gay players excluded
A Zenit St Petersburg supporters' group has called for non-white and gay players to be excluded from the team.

The Russian champions' largest fans' group, Landscrona, said in an open-letter that black players are "forced down Zenit's throat".

They added that gay players are "unworthy of our great city".

Dietmar Beiersdorfer, Zenit director of sports, said players were selected "without any limitation regarding origin, religion or skin colour".

Zenit were the only top-flight Russian team without a black player until this summer.

They signed Brazilian striker Hulk and Belgian midfielder Axel Witsel for £64m.

Continue reading the main story
“Zenit has proven through its work that the club understands what tolerance is”

Luciano Spalletti

Zenit St Petersburg head coach

French midfielder Yann M'Vila reportedly turned down a move to the club in August as a result of racist abuse.

Nikolai Grammatikov, the secretary of the union of football players and coaches in Russia, believes players can send an important message to the country's football authorities by refusing to join Russian clubs.

"The best way of acting against this is when the players that are invited to come to Russia, the black players especially, say 'Sorry I would love to come as it is probably an interesting Championship, but the Federation has to do something because I am not going there because of the racists,'" he said.

"This is the strongest message the players could make now to the football authorities."

Zenit's Italian head coach, Luciano Spalletti described the supporters' call as "stupidity", saying "tolerance for me is most of all the ability to understand and accept differences".

He added: "I can personally assure you that I will do everything I can to help those who seek to explain to people what tolerance is, and the need to respect other cultures and traditions.

"I think that Zenit has proven through its work that the club understands what tolerance is, and what it means to have tolerant behaviour. The team has gathered players from different countries and ethnic groups who work together to achieve a common goal."

The fans' manifesto read: "The absence of black Zenit players is just an important tradition that underlines the team's identity and nothing more."

Black players in the Russian league have been the target of monkey chants and Anzhi Makhachkala's Christopher Samba had bananas thrown at him by fans. Zenit St Petersburg were fined by the Russian Football Union after one of their fans offered Roberto Carlos of Anzhi a banana before a match between the two sides in March 2011.

Samba said Zenit fans "live in a different century" and admitted he was not surprised by their demands.

Zenit are currently third in the Russian Premier League behind leaders CSKA Moscow and Anzhi. They will play in this season's Europa League after finishing third in Champions League Group C.



Scummy ****s, absolutely fudging pathetic. And of course no major repurcussions will occur.
 
They were definitely very lucky in the way they hit their golden period just as English football went global. They will call it opportunism, luck was a definite larger element however. But as I said, they spent a lot more than all the other clubs at the time, similarly to how we have done. In the years before the introduction of the Premiership format, they bought the best talent from the competition like Bruce, Pallister, Robson, Irwin, Hughes and Cantona (which was a complete coup, admittedly. What were Leeds thinking?).
The 20 years since then are, as they say, "history".


The next poster said that they have always been a massive club. As long as the last 54 years count as "always", then yeah. It isn't a coincidence that they grew much larger since the Munich Disaster (RIP). They used it as a marketing tool, and played off sympathy to create a fanbase. There is a picture somewhere from 2008, when they put up a big canvas with a lovely message, telling us to never forget, or something along those lines. Except when you look closer, you can see that all around the sides said poster are company logos. They actually got companies to sponsor the 50th anniversary of the disaster!
The way Man United handled it was nothing short of immoral, and the equivalent of emotional gamesmanship/exploitation. They completely cut off funding to the victim's families, which was negotiated when the players signed the contracts. I'm talking about accommodation and things like that. They did their best to kick the families out of their homes, as the players did not live there anymore. In fact, they didn't quite know where the players were. They were in no rush to fly the bodies back for a proper family funeral. A journalist called Frank Swift was on the plane, and he was also an ex-goalkeeper for us. We're still waiting for them to fly him to us so we can give him a memorial service.


Reading back on this post makes me realise I look ridiculously bitter, and it resembles the ramblings of a madman hellbent on conspiracy theories. But a little digging under the surface at Old Trafford creates cracks. All of this is online if you look hard enough, I tried my hardest not to exaggerate. They are a filthy club. I don't mind other clubs criticising the money we spent. But when a club as rotten as theirs tries to claim the moral high-ground, it just frustrates and angers me. They have a lot of closets with a lot of skeletons.
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Every club does when you scratch the surface, except Spurs of course. \o/
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

SWP29 said:
They were definitely very lucky in the way they hit their golden period just as English football went global. They will call it opportunism, luck was a definite larger element however. But as I said, they spent a lot more than all the other clubs at the time, similarly to how we have done. In the years before the introduction of the Premiership format, they bought the best talent from the competition like Bruce, Pallister, Robson, Irwin, Hughes and Cantona (which was a complete coup, admittedly. What were Leeds thinking?).
The 20 years since then are, as they say, "history".


The next poster said that they have always been a massive club. As long as the last 54 years count as "always", then yeah. It isn't a coincidence that they grew much larger since the Munich Disaster (RIP). They used it as a marketing tool, and played off sympathy to create a fanbase. There is a picture somewhere from 2008, when they put up a big canvas with a lovely message, telling us to never forget, or something along those lines. Except when you look closer, you can see that all around the sides said poster are company logos. They actually got companies to sponsor the 50th anniversary of the disaster!
The way Man United handled it was nothing short of immoral, and the equivalent of emotional gamesmanship/exploitation. They completely cut off funding to the victim's families, which was negotiated when the players signed the contracts. I'm talking about accommodation and things like that. They did their best to kick the families out of their homes, as the players did not live there anymore. In fact, they didn't quite know where the players were. They were in no rush to fly the bodies back for a proper family funeral. A journalist called Frank Swift was on the plane, and he was also an ex-goalkeeper for us. We're still waiting for them to fly him to us so we can give him a memorial service.


Reading back on this post makes me realise I look ridiculously bitter, and it resembles the ramblings of a madman hellbent on conspiracy theories. But a little digging under the surface at Old Trafford creates cracks. All of this is online if you look hard enough, I tried my hardest not to exaggerate. They are a filthy club. I don't mind other clubs criticising the money we spent. But when a club as rotten as theirs tries to claim the moral high-ground, it just frustrates and angers me. They have a lot of closets with a lot of skeletons.
Click to expand...

I don't follow United enough to judge them on whether they have milked it in regards to Munich. No doubt they gained sympathy and their fanbase grew exponentially after it happened. You being a Emirates Marketing Project fan means you are likely to notice that sort of thing, just like we would if it were Arsenal.

I'm not saying teams haven't always spent big and Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea were the first teams to do it, but no team in any other era could blow everyone else out of the water when it comes to transfer fees and wages like your club can. It has usually been the big clubs that have had money and spent money. You were around 9th in the league before Sheikh Mansour rolled up.

Yeah they were lucky they started to dominate English football just as the big money came flooding into our game from Sky, but the same thing happened to Arsenal too. It's fortunate for them, but that's just the way it is.

I don't like the way Fergie intimidates referees or the fact that they get the majority of decisions. I also don't care for most of their fans, but under Fergie, they've always tried to play attacking football.
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

AuroRaman said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20770678

Zenit St Petersburg fans want black and gay players excluded
A Zenit St Petersburg supporters' group has called for non-white and gay players to be excluded from the team.

The Russian champions' largest fans' group, Landscrona, said in an open-letter that black players are "forced down Zenit's throat".

They added that gay players are "unworthy of our great city".

Dietmar Beiersdorfer, Zenit director of sports, said players were selected "without any limitation regarding origin, religion or skin colour".

Zenit were the only top-flight Russian team without a black player until this summer.

They signed Brazilian striker Hulk and Belgian midfielder Axel Witsel for £64m.

Continue reading the main story
“Zenit has proven through its work that the club understands what tolerance is”

Luciano Spalletti

Zenit St Petersburg head coach

French midfielder Yann M'Vila reportedly turned down a move to the club in August as a result of racist abuse.

Nikolai Grammatikov, the secretary of the union of football players and coaches in Russia, believes players can send an important message to the country's football authorities by refusing to join Russian clubs.

"The best way of acting against this is when the players that are invited to come to Russia, the black players especially, say 'Sorry I would love to come as it is probably an interesting Championship, but the Federation has to do something because I am not going there because of the racists,'" he said.

"This is the strongest message the players could make now to the football authorities."

Zenit's Italian head coach, Luciano Spalletti described the supporters' call as "stupidity", saying "tolerance for me is most of all the ability to understand and accept differences".

He added: "I can personally assure you that I will do everything I can to help those who seek to explain to people what tolerance is, and the need to respect other cultures and traditions.

"I think that Zenit has proven through its work that the club understands what tolerance is, and what it means to have tolerant behaviour. The team has gathered players from different countries and ethnic groups who work together to achieve a common goal."

The fans' manifesto read: "The absence of black Zenit players is just an important tradition that underlines the team's identity and nothing more."

Black players in the Russian league have been the target of monkey chants and Anzhi Makhachkala's Christopher Samba had bananas thrown at him by fans. Zenit St Petersburg were fined by the Russian Football Union after one of their fans offered Roberto Carlos of Anzhi a banana before a match between the two sides in March 2011.

Samba said Zenit fans "live in a different century" and admitted he was not surprised by their demands.

Zenit are currently third in the Russian Premier League behind leaders CSKA Moscow and Anzhi. They will play in this season's Europa League after finishing third in Champions League Group C.



Scummy ****s, absolutely fudging pathetic. And of course no major repurcussions will occur.
Click to expand...

Repurcussions? No, they will probably be awarded another World Cup.
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Mumorn said:
ibfhx47wrTO84F.gif


:ross:
Click to expand...

...not to mention the young buck yelling 'theo theo'...tossers!!!! but funny ones!
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

When we won the double, we were probably the biggest spending club in the country certainly one of them, when we retained the FA Cup and nearly won the treble the next year, we were the most expensive team in the country. It's no surprise our period of greatest success came when we were one of the top spenders. It can be said we 'bought' the double and our subsequent trophies in 60-63. All our world class/big name players were bought in imports, most of them like Jones, Mackay, Blanchflower, Greaves very expensive, often record-breaking transfers.

It's true the way we 'bought' the title wasn't as extreme as the way Chelsea and City have done so now, but nevertheless we were often criticised in the 60s and 70s for buying our way to success. We didn't produce one superstar homegrown player for twenty years from the late 50s to the late 70s when Hoddle finally broke through, though Perryman Collins and Beal were really good players and all 'homegrown' AFAIK, Perryman of course being a true legend. We had another potential superstar in Souness but lost him for various reasons.

During the 50+ years I've been supporting Spurs we've been heavily reliant on buying in talent, often to the detriment of our own youngsters, Souness being the biggest and most hurtful example. (Souness Hoddle and Ardilles in midfield, probably wouldn't have happened, but what a prospect)

My guess would be in the last 55 years or so that I've been following football, Man U, Liverpool, Everton, City, West Ham, Arsenal and Chelsea have all produced as many or more top class players than us.
 
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Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

[video=youtube;eBrJ4wRoYDY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eBrJ4wRoYDY[/video]
 
Re: **Official Other Teams & Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Barcelona manager Tito Vilanova in recession from his tumour and has fallen ill. Get well soon!
 
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