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O/T The England Thread
- Thread starter Spursalot
- Start date
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Laughable!
We are at best, the 6th or 7th best team in Europe. And I would put us below Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay are the very least from South America.
We are at best, the 6th or 7th best team in Europe. And I would put us below Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay are the very least from South America.
paxtonwolf
Tony Marchi
No way on this earth are we the 4th best team in the World [-X
Klinsmania
Bobby Zamora
THese rankings are a joke. They don't reflect performances, just results. We got dingdonged in recent matches by Italy, Spain and France, but because we didn't lose any of them (at least not in normal time) then we earn ranking points, yet anyone watching the games would have seen that we are way inferior. I think all four of the Euros semi finalists are better than us, as are France, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil and arguably some other teams in Europe, such as Denmark and Sweden. They are in my view at least on a par with us.
F10
Ryan Nelsen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_football_rating
This is more acurate, but I still think England is rated too high..
This is more acurate, but I still think England is rated too high..
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
England will be up to 3rd in August when they're updated
http://www.football-rankings.info/2012/07/fifa-ranking-august-2012-preview.html
http://www.football-rankings.info/2012/07/fifa-ranking-august-2012-preview.html
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Probably add Croatia to the mix to judging by their performances at the Euros.
linnet_spur
Pascal Chimbonda
A ranking system based on performances not results would be terrible. Sport, all of life, isn't about how you perform, it's about the results. You sound like Wenger with comments like that
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Except he would do the rankings based on possession.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Gary Neville
Neville: England are a top-eight team, that's it
Coach calls for realism and insists Hodgson's work can be built upon
Roy Hodgson's coach Gary Neville has said the notion that England must always beat nations such as Italy is "arrogant" and "disrespectful" to such opposition and that a major dose of realism is required to dispel the expectation that the national team have to go close to winning every tournament they play in.
In his first newspaper interview since Hodgson's side lost on penalties to Cesare Prandelli's team in Kiev 22 days ago, Neville told The Independent that those who had rounded on England for their possession levels in the tournament were ignoring the standard of the opposition. "I never saw an England team in the last 40 years that kept possession against teams like France, Italy, Brazil, Spain and Argentina," Neville said. "Wake up everybody!"
Though the possession level in the quarter-final was 36 per cent, Neville said Hodgson's instructions to the players had been to show ambition. "We didn't go out there and say: 'You know what we're going to do today? We're going to give the ball away and sit back for 80 minutes and defend.' That's not the intention or what we tried to do. It was 'stay on the ball, be on the ball, pass the ball'."
Neville, who was appointed to Hodgson's coaching staff on a four-year contract in May, said: "There's always something you can do. I played for England for a lot of years and wanted to keep the ball better, wanted to be more successful, wanted a winning team – all those things. But it's disrespectful to other nations and arrogant to just dismiss them and talk about 'oh, we are England, we talk about ourselves'. We have to see ourselves in the light of Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Germany, Argentina, Brazil. In terms of tournaments and measuring ourselves, the measure of an England team this last 10 or 12 years has been mainly around quarter-finals. It tells you where we are at. We are in the top eight teams in the world. That's fact."
Neville said the idea of England playing in the technical way demonstrated by Spain overlooked the fact that the country is still emerging from a style of football engrained in players in the 1970s and 1980s. He acknowledged that members of the England side who lost on penalties to Italy would say they could have "played better individually in that game" and accepted that criticism was to be expected. "You always have the inquests the week after," Neville said. "People try and change the world. What are we doing wrong? What should we be doing? Let's make everybody [Lionel] Messi. Let's make everybody Xavi. Let's make everybody [Andrea] Pirlo. It happens."
But in an argument which reflects one made by Liverpool's Jamie Carragher a few years ago, Neville called for realism. "The fact that we're getting into tournaments and knocking on the door, that there was a good spirit in the camp and everyone was behind the manager – let's build on that now and move forwards and do better. The idea that you can change English football and the way a kid kicks a ball when he's three years of age, that's a 20- or 30-year project, that's not for the current England manager. That's a project for the people who design the game. We have our culture and the way that we are. The idea that we want suddenly to be all Xavis, Pirlos and Messis – it's unrealistic. It's not achievable. It's about realism and honesty and doing the best that you can and trying to do the best that you can."
England's tournament has led many observers to pinpoint the lack of first-team experience in a Premier League packed with overseas stars as a problem. "In a perfect world you are going to have more English players playing in the Premier League, but how is the England manager going to change that?" Neville countered. "It's very difficult. All you can do is look at the players you have and try to mould them."
=D>
Neville: England are a top-eight team, that's it
Coach calls for realism and insists Hodgson's work can be built upon
Roy Hodgson's coach Gary Neville has said the notion that England must always beat nations such as Italy is "arrogant" and "disrespectful" to such opposition and that a major dose of realism is required to dispel the expectation that the national team have to go close to winning every tournament they play in.
In his first newspaper interview since Hodgson's side lost on penalties to Cesare Prandelli's team in Kiev 22 days ago, Neville told The Independent that those who had rounded on England for their possession levels in the tournament were ignoring the standard of the opposition. "I never saw an England team in the last 40 years that kept possession against teams like France, Italy, Brazil, Spain and Argentina," Neville said. "Wake up everybody!"
Though the possession level in the quarter-final was 36 per cent, Neville said Hodgson's instructions to the players had been to show ambition. "We didn't go out there and say: 'You know what we're going to do today? We're going to give the ball away and sit back for 80 minutes and defend.' That's not the intention or what we tried to do. It was 'stay on the ball, be on the ball, pass the ball'."
Neville, who was appointed to Hodgson's coaching staff on a four-year contract in May, said: "There's always something you can do. I played for England for a lot of years and wanted to keep the ball better, wanted to be more successful, wanted a winning team – all those things. But it's disrespectful to other nations and arrogant to just dismiss them and talk about 'oh, we are England, we talk about ourselves'. We have to see ourselves in the light of Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Germany, Argentina, Brazil. In terms of tournaments and measuring ourselves, the measure of an England team this last 10 or 12 years has been mainly around quarter-finals. It tells you where we are at. We are in the top eight teams in the world. That's fact."
Neville said the idea of England playing in the technical way demonstrated by Spain overlooked the fact that the country is still emerging from a style of football engrained in players in the 1970s and 1980s. He acknowledged that members of the England side who lost on penalties to Italy would say they could have "played better individually in that game" and accepted that criticism was to be expected. "You always have the inquests the week after," Neville said. "People try and change the world. What are we doing wrong? What should we be doing? Let's make everybody [Lionel] Messi. Let's make everybody Xavi. Let's make everybody [Andrea] Pirlo. It happens."
But in an argument which reflects one made by Liverpool's Jamie Carragher a few years ago, Neville called for realism. "The fact that we're getting into tournaments and knocking on the door, that there was a good spirit in the camp and everyone was behind the manager – let's build on that now and move forwards and do better. The idea that you can change English football and the way a kid kicks a ball when he's three years of age, that's a 20- or 30-year project, that's not for the current England manager. That's a project for the people who design the game. We have our culture and the way that we are. The idea that we want suddenly to be all Xavis, Pirlos and Messis – it's unrealistic. It's not achievable. It's about realism and honesty and doing the best that you can and trying to do the best that you can."
England's tournament has led many observers to pinpoint the lack of first-team experience in a Premier League packed with overseas stars as a problem. "In a perfect world you are going to have more English players playing in the Premier League, but how is the England manager going to change that?" Neville countered. "It's very difficult. All you can do is look at the players you have and try to mould them."
=D>
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
It's actually so worrying that it seemed like the intention was to keep the ball better. If the gameplan was to sit back, soak up pressure and hit them direct, we can say fair enough, it almost worked and we almost snuck into the semis.
But the fact that we actually wanted to keep the ball and were just so bad at doing it...wow.
But the fact that we actually wanted to keep the ball and were just so bad at doing it...wow.
In hindsight we werent actually that bad at the euros. compared to the world cup in 2010 i couldnt bear to think about how bad we were for several months, that was just horrible. at least at euro 2012 we looked like we gave a brick. will be interesting to see where hodgson and england go from here, because it wont be that long until the world cup qualifiers.
metalgear
Luka Modric
While its true England doesn't have a lot of talent, Neville still gives Hodgson too much credit. His team selection, tactics...all dubious. All too clear when he was too afraid to attack France. The team was working hard but mostly out of the fear of losing, rather than seeking a glorious win.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
I don't think they every had any intention of passing the ball. There were no decent passers of the ball selected in the squad. Where were Leon Britton, Michael Carrick and Danny Murphy?
imo England should stick to what they're best at.
play a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1 and hoof it at every chance.
England should look at Stoke's model of play just as Spain models Barca.
it worked for Chelsea, why shouldn't it work for England? and we all know the strength of England's team isn't in the tippy tappy brand of football Spain or the Netherlands play. So why try to be something your not?
Something like:
----------------------- Carroll -----------------------
------------ Rooney ----------- Walcott -------------
------ Rodwell ------ Wheelchair ------ Jones --------
Baines ------ Lescott -------- Smalling ---- Walker
------------------------ Hart -------------------------
with Carroll as a target man to hoof to, Walcott and Rooney would have a field day running onto balls knocked on by Carroll (if Carroll's up for it). 2 holding/defensive midfielders in Rodwell and Phil Jones, Wheelchair running box to box, a solid back 4, and one of the best keepers in the world. It may not be pretty, but hoofing it just might take England from 8 to 1.
play a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1 and hoof it at every chance.
England should look at Stoke's model of play just as Spain models Barca.
it worked for Chelsea, why shouldn't it work for England? and we all know the strength of England's team isn't in the tippy tappy brand of football Spain or the Netherlands play. So why try to be something your not?
Something like:
----------------------- Carroll -----------------------
------------ Rooney ----------- Walcott -------------
------ Rodwell ------ Wheelchair ------ Jones --------
Baines ------ Lescott -------- Smalling ---- Walker
------------------------ Hart -------------------------
with Carroll as a target man to hoof to, Walcott and Rooney would have a field day running onto balls knocked on by Carroll (if Carroll's up for it). 2 holding/defensive midfielders in Rodwell and Phil Jones, Wheelchair running box to box, a solid back 4, and one of the best keepers in the world. It may not be pretty, but hoofing it just might take England from 8 to 1.
Hodgson is brick, totally agree with metalhear, bad team selection, bad tactics, no balls.
The one obvious opportunity for England was to play with pace (require better team selection), while a lot of teams in the Euros may have been better technically, it was (imo at least) noticeable how many teams where quite slow, and playing a pacy/physical game (that is what the PL is to me, not hoof) might have had a better chance at further success.
The one obvious opportunity for England was to play with pace (require better team selection), while a lot of teams in the Euros may have been better technically, it was (imo at least) noticeable how many teams where quite slow, and playing a pacy/physical game (that is what the PL is to me, not hoof) might have had a better chance at further success.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
He has up there with Xavi and Iniesta when it comes to his passing stats. But he doesn't play for one of the glamour clubs so it's nigh on impossible for him to get a look in.
Bullet
Andy Thompson
Or play 6-0-4
6 defenders who sit deeeep and win it back then hoooooof it to the top 4, all of whom are big lumps.