Nuno Espírito Santo - Sacked

[Bedfordspurs]

I can only think NES thought Kane/Dele closer to each other but i agree, not in that shape and should not have changed midfield. Maybe Gil was too tired to start?

Id say it’s because he hasn’t had much time with Gil to get him where he wants him
He has been with the club about 21 days in total so far
But he was bringing on him on before the red. So IMO that shows he has a plan for him

 

[Kandi1977]

Id say it’s because he hasn’t had much time with Gil to get him where he wants him
He has been with the club about 21 days in total so far
But he was bringing on him on before the red. So IMO that shows he has a plan for him

Think you're right about Gil. He hasn't had the time to coach the flair out of him yet. He needs to get a defensive mindset into him first.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Think you're right about Gil. He hasn't had the time to coach the flair out of him yet. He needs to get a defensive mindset into him first.

Or just understand how he may play in the team
I know your down on him fella
I suggest you watch the Nuno Valencia team to see how he can get his team playing

 

[billyiddo]

Moutinho & Neves might have something to say about Nunos teams only being grafters with no skill flair or creativity

 

[Yiddo]

I don’t see him being here after the end of the season.

 

[Bishop]

My thoughts as well, 1 defeat in four games and the knives are already out for him. I am not happy about our perfomance the same as others but we had a few problems before the game even started no wonder we played crap. Players out of the country, Dier getting injured, Son and Bergwijn unfit. Tanganga getting sent off.

Is Nuno the answer??? who knows but for fudges sake lets give him time before we ( some start) getting on his back.

But its not about this first defeat in the PL. The performances and the approach has been negative leading up to this game. Remember after the Wolves and Watford matches there many on here discussing the problems and a lot of it was fobbed off with "we won." Today we didn't win so those same complaints that were had after those wins were obviously going to surface.

The performance yesterday wasn't surprising, its been coming. This is all very reminiscent of Jose's run last season. Solid defensive performances based on hard work and excessive numbers covering spaces, snatched counters, very little control in games, a glaring lack of creativity and very few goal scoring chances being made. Winning games this way wasn't sustainable last season and it won't be sustainable this season either.

I like Nuno and he was the man I wanted us to appoint after we sacked Poch so theres definitely no agenda or desire for hm to fail on my part. But again just like with Jose there are some obviously holes in the way we setup and if the coach wont address these issues he will come under scrutiny, just as he should.

 

[Bishop]

Moutinho & Neves might have something to say about Nunos teams only being grafters with no skill flair or creativity

Thats nice but they don't play for Spurs and he has had an opportunity to play with more creative players and he has chosen not to (whatever his reasoning justified to you or not). We are paying a midfield of cloggers by choice and frankly we dont have to.

 

[glasgowspur]

Not against City. In that game we clearly had a plan, everyone followed that plan, they believed, and it worked. After that it's been pretty poor. Good results, poor performances.

After the first 10-15 mins we looked good against city.
Wolves we were solid and compact, contained them well and played the game sensibly. It was theur first home game, return of crowds, returning manager, they were always going to be up for it. But we were together, covered each other and matched them.
Watford we looked a bit ropey imv, cohesion wasn't quite there, not the same snap or covering.
Yesterday was awful, for all that there was effort from most it was misplaced, there was a huge hole in the team or an issue with the tactics.
First two games we were at it and fighting for each other, second two games we onky did it in patches.
There's an energy sapper in our team atm, and its either winks or kane.
Winks because he isn't good enough or suited to the tactics, or Kane because he can't be arsed.

 

[Baleforce]

After the first 10-15 mins we looked good against city.
Wolves we were solid and compact, contained them well and played the game sensibly. It was theur first home game, return of crowds, returning manager, they were always going to be up for it. But we were together, covered each other and matched them.
Watford we looked a bit ropey imv, cohesion wasn't quite there, not the same snap or covering.
Yesterday was awful, for all that there was effort from most it was misplaced, there was a huge hole in the team or an issue with the tactics.
First two games we were at it and fighting for each other, second two games we onky did it in patches.
There's an energy sapper in our team atm, and its either winks or kane.
Winks because he isn't good enough or suited to the tactics, or Kane because he can't be arsed.

I think its the latter, in the first three games the front 3 were offering an out ball all of the time, it was easy for us to get out, we didn’t have that yesterday, Kane was just hanging around by the cb’s, rarely dropped deep, rarely moved wide.

 

[DubSpur]

I don’t think we had those players today to play that system

One change was needed, Winks for Gil and we're into a 4231. Again, we've the players for a 4231 and not a 433 unless we have Ndombele or Lo Celso in the middle 3 to move the ball forward.
The switch to a 4231 should've happened at half time when it was obvious the 433 wasn't working.

 

[billyiddo]

Thats nice but they don't play for Spurs and he has had an opportunity to play with more creative players and he has chosen not to (whatever his reasoning justified to you or not). We are paying a midfield of cloggers by choice and frankly we dont have to.

The point was to refute the idea that NES is that way inclined, I'm sure you can see the benefit of looking at a 3 year spell rather than a 4 game spell?

Ndombele is our only creative midfielder and he has issues that are well documented. I'm not sure Lo Celso is any more a creative outlet than he is a grafter from what we have seen of him - so who are these creative players that we're overlooking?

 

[glasgowspur]

I think its the latter, in the first three games the front 3 were offering an out ball all of the time, it was easy for us to get out, we didn’t have that yesterday, Kane was just hanging around by the cb’s, rarely dropped deep, rarely moved wide.

I haven't seen the England games (shock horror) but the narrative on here about England players refusing to pass to him, the brick he has come out with lately and his lazt two games for us makes me wonder if he has turned into a class A bellend.

 

[djp82]

The point was to refute the idea that NES is that way inclined, I'm sure you can see the benefit of looking at a 3 year spell rather than a 4 game spell?

Ndombele is our only creative midfielder and he has issues that are well documented. I'm not sure Lo Celso is any more a creative outlet than he is a grafter from what we have seen of him - so who are these creative players that we're overlooking?

I hope Gil can play there he looks to pass and comfortable on the ball so may be able to do a job.

Tanguy as you pointed out is the only other creative player. Wish he could sort himself out he could be a world beater.

 

[braineclipse]

I think it was about goals
Gil is t know for scoring them, and dele is
Beyond son and Kane we lack that 10 goal or more player and dele has done that before
Issue of course is that someone if CM needs to instigate attacks

I really hope it wasn't about goals, because we never looked like scoring.

We quite literally couldn't have created less in terms of shots in that first half. And I fail to see how that was a surprise.

If it was just about trying to keep Palace at bay hoping that at could try to make something happen in the last 30 minutes through subs I guess fair enough. Not what I would heve wanted, but fair enough.

 

[Raziel]

I haven't seen the England games (shock horror) but the narrative on here about England players refusing to pass to him, the brick he has come out with lately and his lazt two games for us makes me wonder if he has turned into a class A bellend.

Or, maybe fudging Southgate has played him for 3 games in a week, he's had no preseason, and if you watched the Poland game, they kicked the lumps out of him.

Similarly everyone screaming for Gil, the guy has been playing as Captain for his national U21's and had a really bad knock as well (his coach had to comment on it post game)

We were down 6 players, with a couple other doubtful and a few on international hangover playing against a side fully rested, at home for the first time with crowd in almost 2 seasons? (we saw vs. Wolves, those first games really pump teams up)

Absolute brick performance, bad day at the office, etc. but lets not pretend we had our first 11 out there.

 

[Baleforce]

Or, maybe fudging Southgate has played him for 3 games in a week, he's had no preseason, and if you watched the Poland game, they kicked the lumps out of him.

Similarly everyone screaming for Gil, the guy has been playing as Captain for his national U21's and had a really bad knock as well (his coach had to comment on it post game)

We were down 6 players, with a couple other doubtful and a few on international hangover playing against a side fully rested, at home for the first time with crowd in almost 2 seasons? (we saw vs. Wolves, those first games really pump teams up)

Absolute brick performance, bad day at the office, etc. but lets not pretend we had our first 11 out there.

Yeah, look at the bench, we had about 14 fully fit senior players, the shape was dictated by that, the only other formation option (assuming we started players in positions they were experienced in) would have been Davies or Rodon coming in for Winks/Alli and starting with a back 5.

Football manager isn’t football, but if you looked at the roles map for our starting 11 yesterday, they were all green.

 

[braineclipse]

Although we were abject and similar issues that we had under Mourinho persist, 9 times out of 10 we’d get at least a point from Palace away playing that setup. With a patched up side you can see why we were simply trying not to lose. Moss was the wild card but we offered very little.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

I think 9 out of 10 overstates what is otherwise a solid enough point. Yeah, we probably keep a clean sheet in that game with a decent frequency.

Dier, Rodon and Tanganga (up to the red card) defended well. Davies got the arm position wrong (or "wrong" enough to concede a penalty), otherwise was fine until that.

Did the Palace centre backs play well? Yeah, they did in a way, you could have had peak Alderweireld and Vertonghen playing for them and they couldn't have done better defensively. Not because the Palace lads are that good, but because they weren't tested.

Are Ward and Mitchell better than Reguilon and Emerson defensively? I'm not so sure, but in that game they were not tested at all really. Emerson and Reguilon were tested repeatedly.

You keep conceding possession in decent areas and keep asking your defenders to defend well again and again bad things will eventually happen.

Do that while not testing the opposition defenders much at all you're not going to get at least a draw 9 out of 10 times.

 

[braineclipse]

The point was to refute the idea that NES is that way inclined, I'm sure you can see the benefit of looking at a 3 year spell rather than a 4 game spell?

Ndombele is our only creative midfielder and he has issues that are well documented. I'm not sure Lo Celso is any more a creative outlet than he is a grafter from what we have seen of him - so who are these creative players that we're overlooking?

I agree with that general point. I'm rather certain we're not anywhere near where he wants us to be.

This particular game he had some options at least. Alli in midfield. Alli left in a front three instead of as a #10.

I think we will develop our play, Nuno definitely deserves time and the circumstances were really difficult in this game. Performances like this one though, that has to be the rare exception.

To quote Harry Brooks on twitter:
---
No idea what happened.

All I’ll say is if a Skipp, Hojbjerg, Dele midfield is unbalanced then a Skipp, Hojbjerg, Winks midfield might be the most unbalanced I’ve seen.

When I saw that midfield, not a chance Spurs were winning.
---

I don't think he had to send out the most unbalanced midfield ever seen. That's on Nuno, it's hopefully not something we'll see again any time soon or ever.

 

[glasgowspur]

Or, maybe fudging Southgate has played him for 3 games in a week, he's had no preseason, and if you watched the Poland game, they kicked the lumps out of him.

Similarly everyone screaming for Gil, the guy has been playing as Captain for his national U21's and had a really bad knock as well (his coach had to comment on it post game)

We were down 6 players, with a couple other doubtful and a few on international hangover playing against a side fully rested, at home for the first time with crowd in almost 2 seasons? (we saw vs. Wolves, those first games really pump teams up)

Absolute brick performance, bad day at the office, etc. but lets not pretend we had our first 11 out there.

I don't watxh international football, but the narrative of England players not passing to kane has been going on longer than the last three games.
Hes captain and with all the circumstances you mentioned above he can't say to Southgate to let him sit out against Andorra?
In a group England are walking.
I don't think we were as bad as the score makes it appear. As a spectacle it was awful, but not all games are silky football, up to moss getting involved that game could have went either way. In fact Tanganga stays on i think we win that.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

One change was needed, Winks for Gil and we're into a 4231. Again, we've the players for a 4231 and not a 433 unless we have Ndombele or Lo Celso in the middle 3 to move the ball forward.
The switch to a 4231 should've happened at half time when it was obvious the 433 wasn't working.

He was making the switch before the red
The red changed that