North Korea..

[DubaiSpur]

Sorry mate, hope you didn't take that as a dig, definitely wasn't my intention!

I'd like to get more involved with this thread but out and about at the moment. Would be interesting to hear other viewpoints.

No no, I appreciated the intentions! I`m just reminding everyone that I`m a civilian poster on a forum, nothing more, so I may be entirely wrong. Not exactly one of the Joint Chiefs of Staff here Thanks for the heads up, apologies if I seemed bristly or anything.

 

[NickTB]

This is one thread in random I'd like to see remain relatively un-randomised. I think it's a very interesting subject that could have repercussions for us all

 

[Hootnow]

North Korea has no way of getting their nukes over to the USA, certainly no reliable methods. So all of this still seems to be posturing, both inside to his people and generals and outside to help get some sanctions lifted/ the US to give them some more food aid.

As DubaiSpur has pointed out, the North Korea military doesn't really match up to South Korea anymore, let alone the USA's. In any war, they'd lose. The problem is the horrific amount of artillery they have pointed right at Seoul seems to be enough to level it to the ground. South Korea and the US would eventually win a war but that is a huge price to pay.

China aren't going to get involved on North Korea's side, especially not if they use non-conventional weapons on South Korea/ US bases. They've got too much to lose and nothing to gain from intervening on Un's side.

 

[Superhudd]

Am I the only one actually wanting the US to drop 2 or 3 nukes on them.. serves them right for coming to the table and going all in with a king high.

 

[Hootnow]

Am I the only one actually wanting the US to drop 2 or 3 nukes on them.. serves them right for coming to the table and going all in with a king high.

I'm sure theres quite a few muricans who would very much like that but considering that nukes do not differentiate between civilians and the military and the man issuing these threats runs the most totalitarian state in the world, wanting America to drop the nukes first is a little strange for me.

If north Korea managed to find some way of dropping a nuke in Alaska or the west coast, its probably safe to assume north Korea wouldn't be there 24 hours later.

 

[parklane1]

I think it's all western propaganda to proceed an inevitable US invasion

Sounds about right.

 

[Superhudd]

I'm sure theres quite a few muricans who would very much like that but considering that nukes do not differentiate between civilians and the military and the man issuing these threats runs the most totalitarian state in the world, wanting America to drop the nukes first is a little strange for me.

If north Korea managed to find some way of dropping a nuke in Alaska or the west coast, its probably safe to assume north Korea wouldn't be there 24 hours later.

I would want them to show there hand first obviously.. but something inside me secretly wishes that they flatten the place.

Its bad of me to say but I love watching news channels at war time. Find it fascinating. Ever since the first Iraq invasion and glued to the screen watching Scuds fly into Israel, but the Patriot missle coming to the rescue. Was compelling stuff. With cameras on drones the TV pictures will be almost like playing a computer game.

 

[Notmegov]

I would want them to show there hand first obviously.. but something inside me secretly wishes that they flatten the place.

Its bad of me to say but I love watching news channels at war time. Find it fascinating. Ever since the first Iraq invasion and glued to the screen watching Scuds fly into Israel, but the Patriot missle coming to the rescue. Was compelling stuff. With cameras on drones the TV pictures will be almost like playing a computer game.

 

[Superhudd]

I find it educating. Especially when Sky News brings in the experts. Tim Marshall is IMO the best out there and they also had a weapons expert who wore glasses but name escapes me, was the editor of a War Weapons magazine. You can learn so much when a war happens.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Can't the artillery NK have pointed at Seoul be neutralized by stealth bombers or something? I'm no war expert, but it sounds like a doable job. Bomb those thingys and throw one bomb in the middle of that stadium, where they seemingly keep every single soldier on parade at all times, and you're golden.

I reckon the people of NK deserve to have their tyrant leaders thrown and locked away.

 

[NickTB]

Looks like things are escalating

 

[Hootnow]

I would want them to show there hand first obviously.. but something inside me secretly wishes that they flatten the place.

Its bad of me to say but I love watching news channels at war time. Find it fascinating. Ever since the first Iraq invasion and glued to the screen watching Scuds fly into Israel, but the Patriot missle coming to the rescue. Was compelling stuff. With cameras on drones the TV pictures will be almost like playing a computer game.

You wish they'd flatten the place?

There's nothing fascinating about war, its a brutal business. I've been in a civil war Superhudd and war isn't interesting and it isn't like a computer game.

Obviously I would never wish harm on anyone, my past experiences have pushed me almost to pacifism but I do sometimes wonder if people in the West could experience what war, whether civil or waged by an advanced Western military machine, felt like on their home turf even for just one day, whether they'd be so willing to talk about raining down terror on other places or feel so detached about the possibility of millions of innocent people dying for the actions of a totalitarian state they have no control over whatsoever.

I'm going to say no.

I still don't think North Korea are going to do anything. Any kind of war now would lead to the end of the regime, so for them to initiate it, even if they could level Seoul or hit a US base if they're lucky initially, makes no sense whatsoever.

Still, I did find this bit by Jon Stewart quite funny

[video=youtube;-zu3rlYKrlk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zu3rlYKrlk[/video]


And finally, Cameron came out with this yesterday:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nology-for-nuclear-strike-against-the-UK.html

Now, I guess its possible that they have some new intelligence about North Korean Missiles. But considering that all the best estimates say that a North Korean missile could, if they're lucky, just about reach Alaska, I doubt it. What is more likely is that he's just using this as a bit of a shameless justification for upgrading trident. Or he's preparing the nation for war. Who knows. Bit of a strange thing to say considering North Korea have never mentioned us.

 

[Superhudd]

You wish they'd flatten the place?

There's nothing fascinating about war, its a brutal business. I've been in a civil war Superhudd and war isn't interesting and it isn't like a computer game.

Obviously I would never wish harm on anyone, my past experiences have pushed me almost to pacifism but I do sometimes wonder if people in the West could experience what war, whether civil or waged by an advanced Western military machine, felt like on their home turf even for just one day, whether they'd be so willing to talk about raining down terror on other places or feel so detached about the possibility of millions of innocent people dying for the actions of a totalitarian state they have no control over whatsoever.

Well, anyone old enough to remember will know that in the 70s, 80s and 90s many Londoners grew up with the fear of the IRA. So quite a few of us have had some experience of what you speak off, granted not on the scale of a full scale war, but it was on our doorsteps every single day.

I don't think I said War is not a brutal business. Of course its brutal. I also think you will find that anyone over the age of 30 would have stories told, passed down from grandparents about the 2nd world war. My grandfather drove a tank through France and Poland and I even have the map he used to drive it showing the exact route he took. Many a story has been told to me about that journey, and I can assure you I know what war brings.

With 24hr news coverage War has become almost entertainment, does not mean for any second that those viewing do not on a emotional level know that lives are being lost. War is tragic.

 

[Hootnow]

Well, anyone old enough to remember will know that in the 70s, 80s and 90s many Londoners grew up with the fear of the IRA. So quite a few of us have had some experience of what you speak off, granted not on the scale of a full scale war, but it was on our doorsteps every single day.

I don't think I said War is not a brutal business. Of course its brutal. I also think you will find that anyone over the age of 30 would have stories told, passed down from grandparents about the 2nd world war. My grandfather drove a tank through France and Poland and I even have the map he used to drive it showing the exact route he took. Many a story has been told to me about that journey, and I can assure you I know what war brings.

With 24hr news coverage War has become almost entertainment, does not mean for any second that those viewing do not on a emotional level know that lives are being lost. War is tragic.

With all due respect, and as tragic as the troubles were, I don't think there is any comparison at all between a conflict that killed 125 civilians in England over 20-30 years and a conflict where an advanced military force has come in and bombed the brick out of your country or where a civil war has ravaged your country or in unfortunate cases, both. Here, there are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of deaths, as well as millions of refugees. And life does not go on.

Again though, your grandparent telling you the story is not at all the same as living through it. And depending on where your grandparent was from, his experiences of the war would have been difficult. Was he British? In which case, despite the Nazi bombing and fear, there was no Nazi invasion and occupation. Or was he French, Czech, Russian etc?

That is my point. It is entertainment because people have no idea what it is like to live through something like that. Show this news to an Iraqi or a Vietnamese and suddenly you'll find that perhaps they're not so entertained.

And tbh, I don't agree with your last point, I think most people have built up such a distance between themselves and people from other countries and the media/governments do such a good job of dehumanising 'the other' that people don't care too much. Of course people know that lives are being lost, they'd have to be braindead to not know. The question is whether they care or whether they'd be as supportive/ apathetic if they had ever had to live through something similar. I doubt the neo-cons would have been as willing to do what they did, or the American public so willing to support, if any of them could even imagine something similar happening to the US or if they'd had to live through it themselves.

 

[Superhudd]

And with due respect, I did say so.

 

[Superhudd]

Again though, your grandparent telling you the story is not at all the same as living through it. And depending on where your grandparent was from, his experiences of the war would have been difficult. Was he British? In which case, despite the Nazi bombing and fear, there was no Nazi invasion and occupation. Or was he French, Czech, Russian etc?

One of his main experiences was when his tank was hit by a shell. Killed 2 of his crew and thankfully for himself he only lost two fingers, Tank destroyed, and luckily avoided capture.

Although I have learned of experience, its probably nothing like being there. Still doesn't mean I don't respect those that have gone through it.

 

[Modric THFC]

The whole thing is a complete non story.

Young new insecure leader of a country wants is trying to impress his subjects by sabre-rattling.
US Defence department struggling to secure military budget it wants amid a huge recession is jumping all over it hyping it up.
Cameron now has a justification on how he can afford to pay billions for trident.
The TV news executives are wetting themselves about the idea having a new war to show.

Nothing will happen, but the military will get extra funding.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Cameron's excuse is truly laughable. Nuclear missiles notwithstanding, I struggle to see a North Korean armored division sailing 5500 miles and staging an amphibious landing in Budleigh Salterton.

As for the nukes NK possesses, unless our interception plan is to shoot our own nukes at their incoming ones, I fail to see what Trident will do to them.

 

[Baleforce]

Cameron's excuse is truly laughable. Nuclear missiles notwithstanding, I struggle to see a North Korean armored division sailing 5500 miles and staging an amphibious landing in Budleigh Salterton.

As for the nukes NK possesses, unless our interception plan is to shoot our own nukes at their incoming ones, I fail to see what Trident will do to them.

The whole point of trident is that no one dares nuke us because we have subs hiding all over the globe ready to retaliate.

 

[parklane1]

The whole point of trident is that no one dares nuke us because we have subs hiding all over the globe ready to retaliate.

Really?, i thought it was all about spending shedloads of money so prats like Cameron can say my dingdong is bigger then yours.