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Next Spurs manager mega-thread

who would it be?

  • Jose Mourinho

    Votes: 110 48.0%
  • Guus Hiddink

    Votes: 29 12.7%
  • Louis Van Gaal

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • David Moyes

    Votes: 20 8.7%
  • Brendan Rodgers

    Votes: 40 17.5%
  • Alan Pardew

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Tim Owl Face Sherwood

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Fabio Capello

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Seb Bassong

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Sandra Redknapp

    Votes: 15 6.6%

  • Total voters
    229
Isn't that what Ancelotti tried to do? And before him Grant and Scolari? Little bit of this, little bit of that?

I may be wrong but in my opinion you can't include Grant, Hiddink or Scolari in that list of managers who tried to change things bit by bit, Grant because he totally relied on the old guard, (Terry, Lampard etc) and I can't see that he actually tried to change anything at all, despite the fact that he talked about changing the style of play and mentality, I can't remember any impact on how the team played that reflected the changes that he talked about.

Hiddink because he was only there on a short term basis and did not try to reinvent the wheel because he knew that he was not there for the long haul, and Scolari because he tried to change too much too soon, which is why he ended up coming a cropper.

I agree that Ancelotti was trying to make incremental changes, but in the end he got screwed over by Abramovich IMO, for example in the sacking of Wilkins which diminished his authority within the club.
 
I know he's accused of 'short-termism' and only sticking around for a year or two at most ...but he's pretty much won the league wherever he's gone...

TBH, I THINK I could handle us winning the league 'just for one year'... even if he did fudge off to man Utd the moment Fergie retires!!
 
I know he's accused of 'short-termism' and only sticking around for a year or two at most ...but he's pretty much won the league wherever he's gone...

TBH, I THINK I could handle us winning the league 'just for one year'... even if he did fudge off to man Utd the moment Fergie retires!!
Yeah, I'm sure we'd find some way to cope :D
 
I may be wrong but in my opinion you can't include Grant, Hiddink or Scolari in that list of managers who tried to change things bit by bit, Grant because he totally relied on the old guard, (Terry, Lampard etc) and I can't see that he actually tried to change anything at all, despite the fact that he talked about changing the style of play and mentality, I can't remember any impact on how the team played that reflected the changes that he talked about.

Hiddink because he was only there on a short term basis and did not try to reinvent the wheel because he knew that he was not there for the long haul, and Scolari because he tried to change too much too soon, which is why he ended up coming a cropper.

I agree that Ancelotti was trying to make incremental changes, but in the end he got screwed over by Abramovich IMO, for example in the sacking of Wilkins which diminished his authority within the club.

The point is - somewhere down the line it makes sense to give someone the time, resources and trust to carry out a meaningful transformation/transition instead of always pulling the trigger after 2 consectuive defeats and a draw, bring in someone new and repeat the process 9 months later. Look at the 2 most successful clubs in the last 20 years - is it any confidence they've also had 2 of the longest serving managers?
 
I absolutely agree on that point, although happily Abramovich has been happy to ignore what is basically common sense (backed up by decades of examples of how constant chopping and changing is counterproductive.) I'm not so sure that AVB is the right man for them to achieve this though, and much as I brought into the hype over the Summer, his performance this season does give legitimate grounds for concern regarding some potential discrepancies between the hype and the reality as to just how good a manager AVB really is.
 
The point is - somewhere down the line it makes sense to give someone the time, resources and trust to carry out a meaningful transformation/transition instead of always pulling the trigger after 2 consectuive defeats and a draw, bring in someone new and repeat the process 9 months later. Look at the 2 most successful clubs in the last 20 years - is it any confidence they've also had 2 of the longest serving managers?

I always wonder why people seem to think that a long term manager = success when in reality it is completely the other way round... i.e. success = a long term manager.
 
I always wonder why people seem to think that a long term manager = success when in reality it is completely the other way round... i.e. success = a long term manager.

What examples do you have from the Prem (other than Mourinho) where a short-term manager has achieved great success?
 
What examples do you have from the Prem (other than Mourinho) where a short-term manager has achieved great success?

ancelloti
hiddink
vialli
gullit

all at chelsea for short periods, all won trophies, vialli's haul was incredible given the length of his tenure

not that i'm in 100% agreement with the original point but they instantly sprung to mind, you could also have hodgson at fulham assuming success is relative to stature
 
Vialli was a glorified captain who also did the team sheet. They had a good team at the time

Hiddink and Gullit each won a cup - hardly the grand success, wouldn't you say. Plus the former was essentally a caretaker at the time
 
Vialli was a glorified captain who also did the team sheet. They had a good team at the time

Hiddink and Gullit each won a cup - hardly the grand success, wouldn't you say. Plus the former was essentally a caretaker at the time
Doesn't that go against the argument of needing a long term manager? If all you need is a squad of really good players that will win trophies with even a "glorified captain" in charge of them, why do you need a long term manager? As long as you have quality players, just drop anyone in, they'll win anyway.

Hiddink did really well imo too. His record in the league was P13 W11 D1 L1. Even with 13 wins from 13 it wouldn't have been enough to catch Man Utd. Plus they were unlucky to go out in the CL semi against Barca (last min goal, dodgy ref) and he won the FA Cup. Not too shabby.
 
What examples do you have from the Prem (other than Mourinho) where a short-term manager has achieved great success?

I think you're misunderstanding his point.

His point (to me) seems to be that long term managers are long term managers because they have been successful, not that long term managers are successful because they have been given the job for a long term.
 
I have sympathy for AvB, basically being the fall guy because of others inadequences, from ageing players, to poor scouting, poor youth development to poor management right at the top.
 
So if a manager doesn't produce in the first season - he's out?

If he produces in the first season but fails the next - he's out?

Which on is it?

Fergie took years to get going but they stood next to him. Wenger was hardly the messiah in his first season. Point is - AVB can prove to be very successful for them given the time, trust and resources. He most certainly woudn't if sacked after 10 months

A long term manager brings stability, balance and long-term goals to aspire towards. Why didn't he stick with Ancelotti after one year of 'failure'?
 
I think you're misunderstanding his point.

His point (to me) seems to be that long term managers are long term managers because they have been successful, not that long term managers are successful because they have been given the job for a long term.

That much I understood but Ancelotti was succesful and removed so that doesn't fit the pattern surely? (In Chelsea's case of course)
 
So if a manager doesn't produce in the first season - he's out?

If he produces in the first season but fails the next - he's out?

Which on is it?

Fergie took years to get going but they stood next to him. Wenger was hardly the messiah in his first season. Point is - AVB can prove to be very successful for them given the time, trust and resources. He most certainly woudn't if sacked after 10 months

A long term manager brings stability, balance and long-term goals to aspire towards. Why didn't he stick with Ancelotti after one year of 'failure'?

Well, in Chelsea that seems to be the case, and in many other clubs as well.

But you asked "What examples do you have from the Prem (other than Mourinho) where a short-term manager has achieved great success?" To me that makes about as much sense as asking "What examples of strikers do you have that are scoring tons of goals, but only get a few games". There are examples, like Berbatov perhaps, but they are few and far between because most strikers that score a lot of goals get a lot of games. Similarly to managers that get success get many years in their jobs.

You give the example of Ferguson, who was reportedly on the brink of getting sacked before he delivered results. What about the previous manager? What if Manu had kept him instead? Thinking that short term thinking of firing this guy and giving the job to Ferguson wouldn't be the right way to do it. Their old manager would have given them stability, balance and long-term goals to aspire towards.

This isn't a discussion about why Abramovich does what he does.
 
He's definitely coming back to England judging by his quotes in the papers today. Talks about how much his family loves England and so on.

He said he wants to build a team into something great. Surely the Spurs job ticks all the boxes for him. Arsenal are still a bigger club than us, it would be a real achievement if Mourinho could make us equal to them again.
 
The point is - somewhere down the line it makes sense to give someone the time, resources and trust to carry out a meaningful transformation/transition instead of always pulling the trigger after 2 consectuive defeats and a draw, bring in someone new and repeat the process 9 months later. Look at the 2 most successful clubs in the last 20 years - is it any confidence they've also had 2 of the longest serving managers?

I doubt that many would disagree with that.

But that takes us back to Crab's original point. You would happily give AVB the time but you wouldn't afford the likes of Lambert and Rogers the same latitude.

AVB is still unproven anywhere other than at Porto. And he is especially unproven in English football by comparison to the likes of Rogers and Lambert. I confess that the interviews I see and read of AVB wouldn't fill me with confidence in his man management skills if he was Spurs' manager. Comes across as chippy and naive. He lacks the gravitas that great leaders possess.

Less logically, he also has, to my ears at least, an incredibly annoying voice.
 
I doubt that many would disagree with that.

But that takes us back to Crab's original point. You would happily give AVB the time but you wouldn't afford the likes of Lambert and Rogers the same latitude.

AVB is still unproven anywhere other than at Porto. And he is especially unproven in English football by comparison to the likes of Rogers and Lambert. I confess that the interviews I see and read of AVB wouldn't fill me with confidence in his man management skills if he was Spurs' manager. Comes across as chippy and naive. He lacks the gravitas that great leaders possess.

Less logically, he also has, to my ears at least, an incredibly annoying voice.

I agree with this. He doesn't seem to command any respect from the Chelsea players, they don't like him either from the sounds of it. He's trying to change the way Chelsea play i.e. play more attractive football, but he's completely forgotten about the other end. He doesn't have a clue when it comes to the defensive side, look how high up the pitch they were when Arsenal beat them at the Bridge earlier in the season! If it was a choice between Rodgers and AVB, I'd pick Rodgers.
 
I agree with this. He doesn't seem to command any respect from the Chelsea players, they don't like him either from the sounds of it. He's trying to change the way Chelsea play i.e. play more attractive football, but he's completely forgotten about the other end. He doesn't have a clue when it comes to the defensive side, look how high up the pitch they were when Arsenal beat them at the Bridge earlier in the season! If it was a choice between Rodgers and AVB, I'd pick Rodgers.

I think AVB has obviously made mistakes and they have been highlighted given the coverage of his club and league itself. However, He has found himself at a club that has been in need of, certainly for the last 3 windows, a bit of an overhaul of playing style and personnel.

Chelsea have employed a rigid system of 433 since 2004 where Drogba has been the fulcrum. They have payed a British record for Fernando Torres who is really supposed to be the no.1 forward at the club and future yet the system that the whole squad have been used is not one that supports Torres playing style.

Normally you would say well the club shouldn't adapt, the player should but alot of the players who have been part of that rigid system are coming to an end now and more work should have been done gradually to phase some of those players out like Ferriera, Mikel, Kalou which had it been done before AVB's arrival, would have allowed him to purchase players for the squad more suited to a flexible way of playing as opposed to the players from the old guard who clearly only feel comfortable playing the one system.

Then there is the transfer fee. You cannot spend ?ú50m on a forward and then dismiss him as a flop without trying everything to make him and the team a success. If hye was a ?ú5m signing then maybe you would cut your losses but the Torres deal has to be made to work, at least to an extent over the coming seasons.

He has also had to contend with the trio of personalities -Terry, Lampard and Drogba who obviously wield far too much influence on everything from formation to what teabags are used at the training ground. All in all, what he is being tasked to do is a pretty substantial job and is picking up the pieces from previous regimes that have failed to deal with the squad turnover for a number of reasons from bad purchases to having a manager wrongly removed from his post causing a job to be half finished.

I personally wouldn't want AVB at spurs but I do believe he would do a decent job here purely because it is much less of a job outside the standard issues of managing a big club by comparison to the numerous issues at Chelsea.

I would want Mourinho because it would give us the wow factor, a chance of recruiting players who will play for Mourinho because of who he is, a point that isn't going to be considered by many players with Redknapp. He will also get players really feeling the club and make them believe they are priveleged to be here. All in my opinion of course but I simply feel if we have a chance of getting him then we must go for it.
 
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I have a funny feeling the 5 that have said no to Mourinho (no wonder we get laughed at) actually want Brendan Rogers instead lol, I'm right arent I ?
 
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