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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Ok, i'll ask it.

Those who watched the game today will know that most of the team did NOT play (or even travel) to the Europa league game in midweek. So there was no 'European hangover' issue for the players. Those that started should all have been fresh. Ok, we can lose a game unluckily but still see that the players were trying and that there is/was a purpose.

However, by all accounts everything we did today was insipid. Lacking energy and simple things not being done.

My question is why? Why lacking the effort? Why not pressing as had been seen before?

My only real worry about Poch and his methods is whether the pressing game really could be implemented with the players we have, who may be harder to motivate to follow such methods compared to a lower-table outfit like Southampton. However, that worry was more longer-term in the latter part of the season.

Could today simply be that the players are just not buying into the 'pressing game'? Could it be that after recent years that kind of raw physical effort that would be needed just isn't what the players want be doing?
Are we seeing a player revolt already??
 
BrainOfLevy said:
This place is absolutely unbearable after a loss, utter nonsense is spoken.

Apparently the whole team plays rubbish because they didn't like that Kaboul - their new captain - and Chiriches were selected at the back?

The team played at a poor, slow tempo and clearly didn't deserve to win. But people are acting like they are League 2 standard players. They are good players and at the very least should be able to beat West Brom.

Posters are so determined to build their own narratives into what actually happened that they are coming out with some frankly ridiculous assertions. The team today that was picked should have been able to beat West Brom.
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This .. simple fact, **** day at office

no conspiracy theory needed.
 
In the warm up there was a lot of smiling, laughing, not looking all that bothered. Hugo was very serious, as was Dier, but he's the only one I can pick out of the outfield players.

I think they expected an easy turn up and do the job win.

West Brom were so organized, it almost looked like we hadn't practiced shape or defending set pieces.
 
Mumorn said:
He doesnt control the players. he manages them. if they dont do what he wants thats not his fault, he can drag them off, he can drop them and hopefully a few get dropped.
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Assuming you are right, not much different to any other manager then?
 
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glorygloryeze said:
Ok, i'll ask it.

Those who watched the game today will know that most of the team did NOT play (or even travel) to the Europa league game in midweek. So there was no 'European hangover' issue for the players. Those that started should all have been fresh. Ok, we can lose a game unluckily but still see that the players were trying and that there is/was a purpose.

However, by all accounts everything we did today was insipid. Lacking energy and simple things not being done.

My question is why? Why lacking the effort? Why not pressing as had been seen before?

My only real worry about Poch and his methods is whether the pressing game really could be implemented with the players we have, who may be harder to motivate to follow such methods compared to a lower-table outfit like Southampton. However, that worry was more longer-term in the latter part of the season.

Could today simply be that the players are just not buying into the 'pressing game'? Could it be that after recent years that kind of raw physical effort that would be needed just isn't what the players want be doing?
Are we seeing a player revolt already??
Click to expand...

i said that when Poch was appointed.......we dont have the players with that kind of dedicated hard working mentality. There will be the odd game or two where the players put a shift in, but i dont see this group doing it on the consistent basis Poch would demand

honestly, and i said it at the time we were after a new manager, if Levy wanted a manager to get the best out of THIS group of players, he should have appointed DeBoer
 
glorygloryeze said:
Ok, i'll ask it.

Those who watched the game today will know that most of the team did NOT play (or even travel) to the Europa league game in midweek. So there was no 'European hangover' issue for the players. Those that started should all have been fresh. Ok, we can lose a game unluckily but still see that the players were trying and that there is/was a purpose.

However, by all accounts everything we did today was insipid. Lacking energy and simple things not being done.

My question is why? Why lacking the effort? Why not pressing as had been seen before?

My only real worry about Poch and his methods is whether the pressing game really could be implemented with the players we have, who may be harder to motivate to follow such methods compared to a lower-table outfit like Southampton. However, that worry was more longer-term in the latter part of the season.

Could today simply be that the players are just not buying into the 'pressing game'? Could it be that after recent years that kind of raw physical effort that would be needed just isn't what the players want be doing?
Are we seeing a player revolt already??
Click to expand...

We've seen the same with just about every other manager at the club that I can remember. Some days it just doesn't work for whatever reason. This is not new. This is also not something that only happens to us.

In hindsight this was likely to happen sooner or later. Poch would have to be a miracle worker to not have this happen to him sooner or later.

I've long thought there's something off about the mentality at the club, this kind of showing is a symptom of that I think. Not a symptom of something wrong with our new manager. Point being that this isn't something that all of a sudden started under him.

indianspur said:
i said that when Poch was appointed.......we dont have the players with that kind of dedicated hard working mentality. There will be the odd game or two where the players put a shift in, but i dont see this group doing it on the consistent basis Poch would demand

honestly, and i said it at the time we were after a new manager, if Levy wanted a manager to get the best out of THIS group of players, he should have appointed DeBoer
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Even if this was true, and I'm not sure it is, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

I would rather see us change out every player that doesn't have the right mentality than placate them for a slight short term boost.

We're looking to compete with several teams with significantly bigger budgets. I think a great way of doing this is the Simeone at Atletico or Klopp at Dortmund route. Seems to me that Poch is trying to do something similar. I'm willing to wait and would rather see him drop a handful of players that have been at the club for a long time and use his own signings or youngsters until we have a group of players actually willing to do the job.

I would fear placating the not so dedicated players a lot more, because I think that's at least as destined to fail sooner or later. Because sooner or later that lack of dedication would cost us.
 
Raziel said:
This .. simple fact, **** day at office

no conspiracy theory needed.
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Spot on. Every club in this league will lose a game that they should win at a canter at some stage this season.

I liked it a few weeks ago when people recognised that it would take a little while for the new players and manager to bed in.
 
We didn't strengthen the squad sufficiently in the window. Having two HG spots unfilled was a big mistake. Whether that's Poch's or ENIC's fault I know not, probably a bit of both. But add say Welbeck and Lescott to our current squad and we'd have been much better equipped to deal with the domestic and European programme.

It may be that Poch's tactics, selection skill, etc aren't up to scratch, I know not. I certainly haven't seen much of the intense pressing game that many 'experts' promised us under Poch.

For me it's 99% about results, how a manager achieves them, that's up to them, it just ought to be better than Poch has given us so far. HOWEVER, we're still in all the Cups and I'd happily take midtable and a trophy this season.
 
milo said:
Spot on. Every club in this league will lose a game that they should win at a canter at some stage this season.
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Should we be winning this at a canter? West Brom are a well organised and dangerous team. One you need to prepare for carefully.
We obviously didn't.
Poch is on a steep learning curve.
 
I don't think the issue is about the quality of the opposition. Against QPR and Sunderland we were at them from the start, pressing high up, winning the ball, attacking with power and pace. The QPR game was won within 15 mins, Sunderland were very lucky not to be similarly tonked.

Against both Liverpool and WBA we just didn't get at them, didn't press the high line, didn't damage them. It is about us in all four of these games, what we did right and what we have failed to do.
 
Yermiyahu said:
So please enlighten us, and explain away that pathetic excuse for a performance today.
Click to expand...

It was clearly the slow tempo, not in keeping with anything Poch has said he wants from any of his teams. Why that is happening more at home? I don't know, perhaps the fear of making mistakes in front of the home crowd.

I've thought the atmosphere was a lot better this season, everyone seems to be on the same page and the pressure seems to have been reduced. The QPR performance also suggested our squad has turned the corner on that score. But perhaps they are afraid of playing at a quick tempo and making mistakes due to the crowd.

Or maybe it is the slightly narrower pitch. I honestly have no idea. But I highly doubt it is something weird like the whole team not playing well because Kaboul and Chiriches, two perfectly capable defenders and perfectly capable of beating West Brom, were selected.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Ok, i'll ask it.

Those who watched the game today will know that most of the team did NOT play (or even travel) to the Europa league game in midweek. So there was no 'European hangover' issue for the players. Those that started should all have been fresh. Ok, we can lose a game unluckily but still see that the players were trying and that there is/was a purpose.

However, by all accounts everything we did today was insipid. Lacking energy and simple things not being done.

My question is why? Why lacking the effort? Why not pressing as had been seen before?

My only real worry about Poch and his methods is whether the pressing game really could be implemented with the players we have, who may be harder to motivate to follow such methods compared to a lower-table outfit like Southampton. However, that worry was more longer-term in the latter part of the season.

Could today simply be that the players are just not buying into the 'pressing game'? Could it be that after recent years that kind of raw physical effort that would be needed just isn't what the players want be doing?
Are we seeing a player revolt already??
Click to expand...

Why should this be the case though? Bigger clubs than us in Dortmund and Athletico have done the same recently with great results. Is there really such an appalling attitude at the club?

I find this difficult to believe as we have these stories of player revolts every couple of seasons when a bad performance in two goes in and due to the high turnover of players, it is usually different groups of players.

If there are problems with their mentality, they need to be moved on really. Can't be having players with that kind of attitude.


Why do our fans have such little patience (this bit isn't to you specifically).
 
Hootnow said:
Why should this be the case though? Bigger clubs than us in Dortmund and Athletico have done the same recently with great results. Is there really such an appalling attitude at the club?

I find this difficult to believe as we have these stories of player revolts every couple of seasons when a bad performance in two goes in and due to the high turnover of players, it is usually different groups of players.

If there are problems with their mentality, they need to be moved on really. Can't be having players with that kind of attitude.


Why do our fans have such little patience (this bit isn't to you specifically).
Click to expand...

Exactly. This board was pretty much universally of the opinion that this season we need to get behind whoever was given the job, the players and the Club in general, take the good with the bad with the view that its a marathon not a sprint and things will be for the greater good in time. One bad performance (OK 2, with the Liverpool game as well) and people are looking to blame Poch, the players, Levy, ENIC, anyone they can think of really.

How about striking it off as one of the 'bad days' that almost everyone said we would have to expect with a new manager trying to bed in a new system.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
Exactly. This board was pretty much universally of the opinion that this season we need to get behind whoever was given the job, the players and the Club in general, take the good with the bad with the view that its a marathon not a sprint and things will be for the greater good in time. One bad performance (OK 2, with the Liverpool game as well) and people are looking to blame Poch, the players, Levy, ENIC, anyone they can think of really.

How about striking it off as one of the 'bad days' that almost everyone said we would have to expect with a new manager trying to bed in a new system.
Click to expand...

I dont think this is one of those situations, yesterdays performance was more than just a bedding in of a new system. I think it was more - do they players give a ****? are the players good enough? is the squad capable?
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
Exactly. This board was pretty much universally of the opinion that this season we need to get behind whoever was given the job, the players and the Club in general, take the good with the bad with the view that its a marathon not a sprint and things will be for the greater good in time. One bad performance (OK 2, with the Liverpool game as well) and people are looking to blame Poch, the players, Levy, ENIC, anyone they can think of really.

How about striking it off as one of the 'bad days' that almost everyone said we would have to expect with a new manager trying to bed in a new system.
Click to expand...


people talk patience but rarely do they seem capable of displaying any.

Arsenal Southampton and City are our next 3 games, unfortunately i can already envisage the first Pochettino out calls shortly after
 
DHSF said:
I dont think this is one of those situations, yesterdays performance was more than just a bedding in of a new system. I think it was more - do they players give a ****? are the players good enough? is the squad capable?
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Again all questions that we said would need to be answered with time. On top of that, there's not much we can do until January if they aren't.
 
billyiddo said:
people talk patience but rarely do they seem capable of displaying any.

Arsenal Southampton and City are our next 3 games, unfortunately i can already envisage the first Pochettino out calls shortly after
Click to expand...

Same here and then the never ending Tottenham Hotspur cycle will start again.
 
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