Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[LCLC]

Big few days for poch and I have to say I have some mild concerns. Happy for people to call me a complete macaron but here goes.

Hopefully our start to the season has been a result of a disruptive pre season and a few stale performances based around a lack of fitness and form from key players. However there are some real hallmarks to AVBs last season thus far.

So far we have had 3 dull performances characterised by stale and static play, odd substitutions and certain players being banished from the squad, awaiting to be sold it seems. On the face of it, we can easily go back to my initial assessment that we haven't got going yet.....

However I feel that unless levy pulls some signings out in the next 3 days we could be in for a tough season potentially. Poch seemingly wants Mason, chadli, son gone with the others and we will lose some very good squad options and goals and end product. It looks like wimmer could be out in the cold and you cannot deny that there could be some tensions in and around the squad. If levy can't get any high level replacements in to actually improve the squad then we look very thin indeed. With CL football and the way we folded last year, we could be struggling if we do go into the season with a small squad and some useful players sold or isolated without improving on them.

It might be good that poch is being ruthless but it is likely that he will be left short by levy as I can't see us paying a proper fee to get a first choice target at this stage. I am a massive fan of our youth but I do not think that onomah (playing as a right/left forward) will carry us through in the prem or CL yet so if anything it looks like we might have weakened the squad going into our biggest season in 6 years.

With Mitchell leaving and other members of staff following there are signs of potential unrest within the club. With previously important squad players being marginalised as well, we need to get a few quality players in to give us impetus, otherwise we might struggle. The fact poch is coming out and saying the type of player we want is a departure from before and bringing on youth on sat over son could have been a message upstairs me thinks.

I could be looking into things a little too much but there are undeniably potential warning signs that might become a reality based on the next few days. I am 100% behind poch but his actions over the last fewweeks mean we are playing with a fire a little bit unless levy gets a move on. We need pace and genuine quality to come in and the question is whether levy is prepared to shell out in order to get it.

 

[glasgowspur]

Big few days for poch and I have to say I have some mild concerns. Happy for people to call me a complete macaron but here goes.

Hopefully our start to the season has been a result of a disruptive pre season and a few stale performances based around a lack of fitness and form from key players. However there are some real hallmarks to AVBs last season thus far.

So far we have had 3 dull performances characterised by stale and static play, odd substitutions and certain players being banished from the squad, awaiting to be sold it seems. On the face of it, we can easily go back to my initial assessment that we haven't got going yet.....

However I feel that unless levy pulls some signings out in the next 3 days we could be in for a tough season potentially. Poch seemingly wants Mason, chadli, son gone with the others and we will lose some very good squad options and goals and end product. It looks like wimmer could be out in the cold and you cannot deny that there could be some tensions in and around the squad. If levy can't get any high level replacements in to actually improve the squad then we look very thin indeed. With CL football and the way we folded last year, we could be struggling if we do go into the season with a small squad and some useful players sold or isolated without improving on them.

It might be good that poch is being ruthless but it is likely that he will be left short by levy as I can't see us paying a proper fee to get a first choice target at this stage. I am a massive fan of our youth but I do not think that onomah (playing as a right/left forward) will carry us through in the prem or CL yet so if anything it looks like we might have weakened the squad going into our biggest season in 6 years.

With Mitchell leaving and other members of staff following there are signs of potential unrest within the club. With previously important squad players being marginalised as well, we need to get a few quality players in to give us impetus, otherwise we might struggle. The fact poch is coming out and saying the type of player we want is a departure from before and bringing on youth on sat over son could have been a message upstairs me thinks.

I could be looking into things a little too much but there are undeniably potential warning signs that might become a reality based on the next few days. I am 100% behind poch but his actions over the last fewweeks mean we are playing with a fire a little bit unless levy gets a move on. We need pace and genuine quality to come in and the question is whether levy is prepared to shell out in order to get it.

Has wimmer not just signed an extension and out with muscle injury?

I can understand the nervousness, it wouldn't take much from here for things to go wrong.
Poch is a long term project though and I think we over achieved last season, so if we suffer this year for longer term success then I'm fine with that.

 

[metalgear]

I think Poch confirmed pre match that Wimmer was available but not selected. I don't recall seeing Vert's much involved in pre season matches too.

I am of the same view with lclc... And suspect something is amiss. We will never find out as Levy has probably a gag order on Mitchell. But Poch sounded disappointed at his departure.


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[tynesidespur]

I dont think Poch has banished Chadli/Mason from the squad. I think something is going on upstairs with bids being accepted or final stages of negotiations. As such the window is the most disruptive element at the start of the season as you end up with a halfway house with not having strengthened and current squad players left out until moves are completed. Until we find an acceptable way to navigate the games pre deadline we are always going to be playing catch up.
Poch seemed happy with these lads in pre-season and I think he would keep them if adequate replacements weren't found.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I think the only thing that is 'amiss' is that some of our non-first 11 are/were at a at point in their careers where they want or need some assurances around game time which Poch is not able to give them. Hence Pritchard wanting to move on, Bentaleb allegedly giving Poch an ultimatum to play him or he'd ask his agent to look at options and Mason chatting with Poch and realising that whilst in Poch's plans, those plans could not guarantee him a starting spot. I think this situation is probably par for the course at many clubs. The only difference here is that perhaps we have a manager who is less forgiving towards those unwilling to buy into his philosophy of 'you are here to train, getting picked to play is something else'.

As for McKenna now leaving, who knows. Maybe he can't get on with Poch. Maybe he has simply had a better offer., a better challenge.
I will only start to get concerned if McDermott were to suddenly up sticks.

 

[Modric THFC]

There's going to be more transfers out than in the next few days and people aren't going to be happy.
You just have to accept that if a player wants to leave, Poch doesn't want him training with the rest of the squad.
That's how he successfully man manages the group. If a player doesn't have 100% the right attitude or isn't committed to the club then they are gone before their attitude upsets the culture in the rest of the group.
I would not be surprised to 6 fringe players go in next few days.

 

[Raziel]

There's going to be more transfers out than in the next few days and people aren't going to be happy.
You just have to accept that if a player wants to leave, Poch doesn't want him training with the rest of the squad.
That's how he successfully man manages the group. If a player doesn't have 100% the right attitude or isn't committed to the club then they are gone before their attitude upsets the culture in the rest of the group.
I would not be surprised to 6 fringe players go in next few days.

That's fine, but the concern about squad depth is legitimate.

My one real concern about the Poch/Levy's strategy is the lack of experience/age/calming in the squad. Having Vorm to cover for Lloris is great, what other position do we have either experienced cover or an experienced head to come in and close/manage a game out?

I love the fact that Alli, Rose, Dier, Lamela take no brick, and give as good as they get ... but a calm head could also help (and avoid last year's Cheat$ki scenario, which argueably cost us 2nd if not title).

Basically back four, midfield, strikers, every time we go to the bench it's less experience (and less proven quality). In my opinion, huge case to be made for buying a couple of 30+ players, especially quality ones who can influence squad, calm games, help guide youngsters.

 

[glasgowspur]

That's fine, but the concern about squad depth is legitimate.

My one real concern about the Poch/Levy's strategy is the lack of experience/age/calming in the squad. Having Vorm to cover for Lloris is great, what other position do we have either experienced cover or an experienced head to come in and close/manage a game out?

I love the fact that Alli, Rose, Dier, Lamela take no brick, and give as good as they get ... but a calm head could also help (and avoid last year's Cheat$ki scenario, which argueably cost us 2nd if not title).

Basically back four, midfield, strikers, every time we go to the bench it's less experience (and less proven quality). In my opinion, huge case to be made for buying a couple of 30+ players, especially quality ones who can influence squad, calm games, help guide youngsters.

But if we had better proven quality on the bench Poch would get slated for them not being on the pitch!
That's a nonsense argument, there's probably only 5 or 6 clubs in the world who have a bench as strong as the first 11. The clue is in the FIRST.
Our only real weakness is cover for dembelle and eriksen.

 

[SpurMeUp]

With 2 player coming in, we will feel a whole lot calmer. The French guy is probably done. Then we'll add Coric or Isco - if so a bit of a coup. Then maybe one more if we can get it over the line. IF we can sign 2, and it is a big if, we'll have a far stronger bench this season - Janssen, Son, Wanyama, +2 covering/ rotating with the first team. And some space for youth players - Winks etc.

We really don't have that much more space. Two quality additions would be perfect.

 

[Raziel]

But if we had better proven quality on the bench Poch would get slated for them not being on the pitch!
That's a nonsense argument, there's probably only 5 or 6 clubs in the world who have a bench as strong as the first 11. The clue is in the FIRST.
Our only real weakness is cover for dembelle and eriksen.

You can have either

- Young talent with expected higher ceiling on bench or experienced head (proven higher at prime but on the back end of career), we have neither.
- Winks, Onamah, CCV, Carroll, list goes on. Do you think anyone of them will be better than any of our current midfield and front line?
- You can also have a different type of player on bench (e.g. pace/width)

The only youth player we have that is potentially the next big thing is Edwards (and he is probably a full year away from contention).

I don't expect a City/RM/Cheat$ki type bench, but Pool game was concerning .. nothing on bench to help with change/calm or alter game.

 

[Modric THFC]

That's fine, but the concern about squad depth is legitimate.

My one real concern about the Poch/Levy's strategy is the lack of experience/age/calming in the squad. Having Vorm to cover for Lloris is great, what other position do we have either experienced cover or an experienced head to come in and close/manage a game out?

I love the fact that Alli, Rose, Dier, Lamela take no brick, and give as good as they get ... but a calm head could also help (and avoid last year's Cheat$ki scenario, which argueably cost us 2nd if not title).

Basically back four, midfield, strikers, every time we go to the bench it's less experience (and less proven quality). In my opinion, huge case to be made for buying a couple of 30+ players, especially quality ones who can influence squad, calm games, help guide youngsters.

Yes the concern about squad depth is legitimate but that is what you get with Pochettino.
He prefers a small squad. Because it's much easier to man manage.

Its one of the downsides of Poch. Its one of the things he has taken from Bielsa. He loved a small squad too.

 

[indianspur]

Yes the concern about squad depth is legitimate but that is what you get with Pochettino.
He prefers a small squad. Because it's much easier to man manage.

Its one of the downsides of Poch. Its one of the things he has taken from Bielsa. He loved a small squad too.

thats why just like Bielsa's teams we probably wont win anything or truly compete at the top table consistently. Its flawed thinking

 

[glasgowspur]

You can have either

- Young talent with expected higher ceiling on bench or experienced head (proven higher at prime but on the back end of career), we have neither.
- Winks, Onamah, CCV, Carroll, list goes on. Do you think anyone of them will be better than any of our current midfield and front line?
- You can also have a different type of player on bench (e.g. pace/width)

The only youth player we have that is potentially the next big thing is Edwards (and he is probably a full year away from contention).

I don't expect a City/RM/Cheat$ki type bench, but Pool game was concerning .. nothing on bench to help with change/calm or alter game.

the bench is always weaker, that's how it should be. I didn't see the whole bench on Saturday but the central midfield area is where as I said we are weak and we can only hope that is what we are working on before the window shuts.
Wimmer, Davies, trippier, son, janssen are all adequate stand ins for the other areas.
Factor in the flexibility in those 5 plus dembelle when he's back I don't see the panic.

 

[AdamB]

Yes the concern about squad depth is legitimate but that is what you get with Pochettino.
He prefers a small squad. Because it's much easier to man manage.

Its one of the downsides of Poch. Its one of the things he has taken from Bielsa. He loved a small squad too.

We dont really have a small squad. In terms of experienced players we have:
- 2 * GK
- 2 * RB
- 2 * LB
- 3 * CB
- 2 * DM
- 1 * AM
- 5 for the three positions behind the CF
- 2 * CF
-...then we have a bunch of kids (CCV, HW, JO, ME, etc)

(this assumes Nkoudou comes in and Mason + Carroll leave)

So the glaring gap is cover for Dembele and perhaps cover for TA, though Dier can provide that. I dont see that we have a small squad at all

 

[Raziel]

We dont really have a small squad. In terms of experienced players we have:
- 2 * GK
- 2 * RB
- 2 * LB
- 3 * CB
- 2 * DM
- 1 * AM
- 5 for the three positions behind the CF
- 2 * CF
-...then we have a bunch of kids (CCV, HW, JO, ME, etc)

(this assumes Nkoudou comes in and Mason + Carroll leave)

So the glaring gap is cover for Dembele and perhaps cover for TA, though Dier can provide that. I dont see that we have a small squad at all

Put names behind that (instead of numbers) and you see the flaws

GK - Lloris/Vorm/McGee, if Lloris gets injured for 2+months, are you comfortable if Vorm needs to be replaced for any reason?
RB/LB = fair cover
CB - CCV was on the bench Saturday, someone with zero senior games to his name
DM - ok ..
AM - no cover for Eriksen/Lamela
CF - Bench again on Sunday was Onamah

Bench on Sunday was Winks, McGee, Onamah, CCV, Davies, Janssen, Son

 

[milo]

thats why just like Bielsa's teams we probably wont win anything or truly compete at the top table consistently. Its flawed thinking

We haven't won anything with a bloated squad in the past either. Maybe it is time for us to cut a manager some slack and see if their methods work.

 

[glasgowspur]

Put names behind that (instead of numbers) and you see the flaws

GK - Lloris/Vorm/McGee, if Lloris gets injured for 2+months, are you comfortable if Vorm needs to be replaced for any reason?
RB/LB = fair cover
CB - CCV was on the bench Saturday, someone with zero senior games to his name
DM - ok ..
AM - no cover for Eriksen/Lamela
CF - Bench again on Sunday was Onamah

Bench on Sunday was Winks, McGee, Onamah, CCV, Davies, Janssen, Son

Davies, Dier and wanyama can all play CB.

 

[milo]

You can have either

- Young talent with expected higher ceiling on bench or experienced head (proven higher at prime but on the back end of career), we have neither.
- Winks, Onamah, CCV, Carroll, list goes on. Do you think anyone of them will be better than any of our current midfield and front line?
- You can also have a different type of player on bench (e.g. pace/width)

The only youth player we have that is potentially the next big thing is Edwards (and he is probably a full year away from contention).

I don't expect a City/RM/Cheat$ki type bench, but Pool game was concerning .. nothing on bench to help with change/calm or alter game.

I think that Winks could go on to be better than our first team starters in his position and certainly has the ability to be better than the back up players that he is replacing.

 

[Raziel]

I think that Winks could go on to be better than our first team starters in his position and certainly has the ability to be better than the back up players that he is replacing.

Really? better than Carroll/Mason = ok, better than Eriksen? = a long way away from even being in the conversation

 

[milo]

Really? better than Carroll/Mason = ok, better than Eriksen? = a long way away from even being in the conversation

As Mason and Bentaleb are off/have gone, Winks target for this season has to be to surpass them. Longer term, he should look to be challenging Dier, Wanyama and Dembele. He has the ability, whether he can make it is another matter.