Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[DTA]

I don't understand at all why those games can't be accurately described as inconsistency. Several, if not all, of the 3 teams immediately ahead of us have had similar problems.

I agree that a attitude change is necessary. I think Poch has been well aware of that and is working on it. Take the end of this season as an example. The doom-sayers were predicting us to not win another game, perhaps finish in 8th place etc. The players had "obviously given up" etc... The players though hadn't given up or stopped playing, fought back and put in two good performances in the last two games of the season.

Perfectly described as inconsistent to me. And good signs that the mentality is improving.

Is it not also possible that after the cup final) part from the last two teams (and Liverpool, I think), everybody else played in a way that neutralized pouches system. I would argue that it's equally important that a way is found to counter this.

5th place and a cup final is good, no doubt about it, but it does in a way give a false sense of achievement as we had an easy cup run and Liverpool self ddestructed.

It makes an ok first season look like a good one.... But as in life small margins make all the difference.

 

[DTA]

Oh and city, which was a good performance but not good result.

 

[Robspur12]

Is it not also possible that after the cup final) part from the last two teams (and Liverpool, I think), everybody else played in a way that neutralized pouches system. I would argue that it's equally important that a way is found to counter this.

5th place and a cup final is good, no doubt about it, but it does in a way give a false sense of achievement as we had an easy cup run and Liverpool self ddestructed.

It makes an ok first season look like a good one.... But as in life small margins make all the difference.

Imo there is no such thing as an "easy" cup run. Spurs fans need to get away from belittling that achieve ment. Yes on paper the teams appeared easier, but at that point we were still playing far flung teams in the Europa League (having already played in the qualifiers iirc) so it was about managing the teams resources. teams. No other manager coped as well as he did imo. Especially as it was his first season. Also earlier on in the season he had taken a more pragmatic approach to systems eg against Arsenal at the effeminates. My personal view was he should have played dembele more.We are more solid in the middle of the park when he plays.

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

All teams have games that they throw away, self implode, have a terrible run.. etc etc.
Each of these teams have coaches /managers. Their fans will probably be looking at Poch, and seeing the summary : 5th place and a League Cup Final.
Some of our fans, will have looked at some of the teams' managers and pine for a Martinez, Rodgers or not so long ago, Lambert.
It's naval gazing within your own team..and scrutinising things to the 'n' th degree...grass always greener etc. I admit, I've done it previously..and probably recently but when you start to think of replacements and then look in detail at the amount of bad games , tactical decisions or results they have, it puts things in perspective.

 

[Jimmy-g]

We need him to stay we badly need continuity, however we are predictable and lacking in variation, we only play one way and with a bit of patience from the opposition are very beatable, the final against Chelsea done it for me, we were their patsies, "To Dare Is To Do" that's gone out the window even in a final.

 

[Raziel]

We need him to stay we badly need continuity, however we are predictable and lacking in variation, we only play one way and with a bit of patience from the opposition are very beatable, the final against Chelsea done it for me, we were their patsies, "To Dare Is To Do" that's gone out the window even in a final.

Jesus mate, Mourinho is the master of neutralizing opposition, it's what has made him one of the world's best managers, he did it to the best Barca team, he's done it to everyone.

Given his style, and a superior squad (+WC players), to say we were their patsies is flimflam .. fact is, we handed him his ass so bad in the league, he had two options

a. Try to come at us and return the favor, outplay us, beat us badly and regain pride
b. Nullify the brick out of us, play the percentage game and win on counter/set piece

The fact that he chose option B to me says far more than our performances ever will.

Re changing the play, we have to go along the lines that Poch barely had 8 players that suited his system, how do you change? Look at the preseason game today, the pace/movement/pressing the younger players provided are probably more indicative of what we can expect.

 

[Jimmy-g]

We have been a top six team for a few years before Poch came so he has maintained our position we also have tried to play the ball forward quicker in the last couple of months, next season with HIS players will be his test, as for Chelsea I would have gone 4-4-2 at half time to give them something different to think about.

 

[DTA]

Imo there is no such thing as an "easy" cup run. Spurs fans need to get away from belittling that achieve ment. Yes on paper the teams appeared easier, but at that point we were still playing far flung teams in the Europa League (having already played in the qualifiers iirc) so it was about managing the teams resources. teams. No other manager coped as well as he did imo. Especially as it was his first season. Also earlier on in the season he had taken a more pragmatic approach to systems eg against Arsenal at the effeminates. My personal view was he should have played dembele more.We are more solid in the middle of the park when he plays.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not belittling a cup final, but it is only a final rather than a cup. so in actuality we talking about the games before the final, of which, we had a very easy run..... your right though those teams still have to be beaten, and for that we and pouch should get some credit..... But at the same it's not like we beat arsenal, man u and city to get there and therefore I'm reserved on Praise.

I think that, if you look at 5th and a cup final in issolation it will look like a good/very good first season. But that doesn't tell the whole story, I think that pouch has had an ok first season (some highs, some lows) and I look forward to seeing what he can do next season.

 

[Bullet]

Look at the preseason game today, the pace/movement/pressing the younger players provided are probably more indicative of what we can expect.

Is there any way of looking at that? PM me please.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Is there any way of looking at that? PM me please.

 

[DTA]

 

[braineclipse]

Is it not also possible that after the cup final) part from the last two teams (and Liverpool, I think), everybody else played in a way that neutralized pouches system. I would argue that it's equally important that a way is found to counter this.

5th place and a cup final is good, no doubt about it, but it does in a way give a false sense of achievement as we had an easy cup run and Liverpool self ddestructed.

It makes an ok first season look like a good one.... But as in life small margins make all the difference.

It's possible, but I don't think it's very likely. If that was the case how inept was Martinez to let us play his team off the park in that fist half if "everybody" just figured out how to neutralize Pochettino's system?

I expected inconsistency, particularly when we had to rely on that number of young players in our first team with little real competition for places/cover. We got inconsistency. I see no reasons to draw conclusions based on the expected inconsistency other than the fact that we were inconsistent.

Would you similarly be saying if we got 7th only a small number of points behind 5th that it gave a false sense of failure?

 

[DTA]

It's possible, but I don't think it's very likely. If that was the case how inept was Martinez to let us play his team off the park in that fist half if "everybody" just figured out how to neutralize Pochettino's system?

I expected inconsistency, particularly when we had to rely on that number of young players in our first team with little real competition for places/cover. We got inconsistency. I see no reasons to draw conclusions based on the expected inconsistency other than the fact that we were inconsistent.

Would you similarly be saying if we got 7th only a small number of points behind 5th that it gave a false sense of failure?

I think martinez has a way of getting his team to play and that he Like pouch doesn't make major adjustments based on opposition (they obviously make some adjustments, but not major ones on the whole imho).

As for if we finished 7th my appraisal would pretty much be the same, pouch has done ok, and should be given another season before being judged, if I'm being totally honest however klopp would tempt me, but completely understand why I would be in the minority with that view.

 

[Papercut]

@DTA; would it be unfair to give him another season to settle his 'culture' at the club and tie in the youth with the first teamers? If we are looking at the bigger picture, I honestly feel 2 seasons at least for a manager. We aren't in the same ballpark and City, Chelsea and co, we need to sew the seeds and be successful organically - we cannot expect a hear and now quick-fix (we cannot afford to). This is perhaps why Poch didn't seem to want Europa?

 

[Armchair Expert]

why do you call him 'pouch' ?

 

[billyiddo]

Arsenal and City away seemed like pretty major adjustments to our style of play if you ask me.

 

[DTA]

@DTA; would it be unfair to give him another season to settle his 'culture' at the club and tie in the youth with the first teamers? If we are looking at the bigger picture, I honestly feel 2 seasons at least for a manager. We aren't in the same ballpark and City, Chelsea and co, we need to sew the seeds and be successful organically - we cannot expect a hear and now quick-fix (we cannot afford to). This is perhaps why Poch didn't seem to want Europa?

It depends I think if he had a track record of success then what you are saying would be correct, poch doesn't. I think he has done ok, and hope that next season we should strongly challenge for 4th, and see some improvements in consistency and adaptability, if we have a season such as this one then I wouldn't necessarily want to get rid, but I would explore options to upgrade. As many on here explore options to upgrade good but not great players. why is it that we are told that managers need time, but players are brick after half a season?

 

[DTA]

why do you call him 'pouch' ?

Until I read your post, I honestly thought his name was spelt with a u, and that pouch was a cool abbreviation (as I'm dyslexic and have no chance of actually spelling his name correctly consistantly) but will make an effort to drop the u from now on..... Although I kind of like pouch (I love dogs, so it was no insult)

 

[DTA]

Arsenal and City away seemed like pretty major adjustments to our style of play if you ask me.

I would agree but that's 2 out of 38 in the leagueandalmost 60 overall, that's why I said, 'on the whole'

 

[Bullet]

Until I read your post, I honestly thought his name was spelt with a u, and that pouch was a cool abbreviation (as I'm dyslexic and have no chance of actually spelling his name correctly consistantly) but will make an effort to drop the u from now on..... Although I kind of like pouch (I love dogs, so it was no insult)

Pooch is dogs
Pouch is ...er... a pouch
Poch is an Argie coach