Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Raziel]

Toby and Rose were fine today. The problems imo, were with Eriksen and Winks and Dele played out of position.


I can't. Only Poch knows


I don't know if Poch is doing a good job or not because I am not fully aware of what is going on behind the scenes. Are you? But a lot of players have been injured and are coming back, a former star player is playing like a cnut and at least 4 players wanted out in the summer. But someone who does is Daniel Levy, who has not pushed the button yet as he has done on several managers in the past. That suggests to me there is more to this than just what is happening on the pitch.

Poch has credit in the bank because unlike George Graham he has had us finishing top 4 for 4 seasons in a row, finished 2nd and reached a Champions League final. That despite playing away from him for a season and a half and signing noone at all last season. So your comparison with Gorgeous George is rubbish.

Tell me, which manager do you want to come in and replace Poch and explain why he will be better?


The one reason I believe he will turn this around despite the challenges at the moment, is because of the players who, if they stay, injury free could turn our season. The Kanes, the Ndombeles, the Lo Celsos, Son even Alli and Moura as well as the centre backs. So the the most pragmatic and sensible thing for him to do is to rotate them carefully to keep them fit for as long as possible.

Mate, appreciate the response, my answer

- He's not doing a good job, the data backs that up (our form is 14th or worse over a period longer than a full season now)
- The graham comparison matters, because it puts into context how mad this current squad is performing (this team reached a CL final but has form we haven't seen in 18 years)
- Literally any manager would do a better job this season, I genuinely believe that now. Any manager that came in, stopped the over rotation, dropped the under-performing players, went back to the basics and played a model aimed at getting the best out of Kane, Son & Lucas would do better.
- Long term, we would have to think about it, for me, where we are, with Jose & Allegri free, no brainer .. take either of those right now .. whichever one agrees to come first

I do think N'dombele, Lo Celso, (Lamela is we get 30+ games out of him) and perhaps Sessegnon will make a difference, the probable is you need to stay in the fight long enough to be in a position for them to make a difference, in 3 or 4 more weeks there will be nothing left to save ..

Levy should have pulled the trigger in the international break ..

 

[Raziel]

‘If he played the same team as Tuesday and we got smashed, I would give him credit.’

WTF man, you’ve lost it. You’re more keen to prove that your idea of what is or isn’t working is correct than you are to just analyse the situation on its own merits. Taking it the other way, if we won today, but he had picked Rose et al, would you give him no credit? You are so sure that your idea is correct and that he can possibly have any reason to do what he is doing, that you would rather give him credit if we got ‘smashed’, because it would be the thing that you would have done. Crazy.

He is thinking more long term than most understand (as proven by this thread) and he does have access to data that we don’t have. Belittle that all you want but it is true. You can keep going on about loss ratio but I don’t think anyone is saying that these results are good, or that we should be happy. But simply that we see a broader context.

I’ll repeat it. The pattern of the game, because we scored so early, meant we had a lead to protect and defended as such. Dele and Eriksen’s roles were playing deep and they broadly did a good job with the men they had to stick in. Eriksen was often chasing back on Robertson and Dele scarcely had any opportunity to show what he could do in attack because the entire team was deep.

I think we could have, and this is a repeated problem with this current squad, used the ball better in crucial moments. Sissoko had a chance to play Son through for an easy chance. We had many break away attempts where a little more quality and composure would have allowed the team to move up. Son missed an open goal. But broadly speaking, it was a tight game, we kept their dangerous attack largely subdued and despite them having the territory because of the pattern of the game, they needed a penalty to beat us.

When is it enough?

- no wins in 11 away
- 20 losses in our last 44 games
- 11th in the table
- Out the fizzy pop cup

please tell me, when is it enough? can he lose every fudging game? because right now we could be in 15th spot (no fluke, that's our form for the year) if not for GD, we are 4 points from relegation zone.

All you comments about players, rotation, could have taken chances, mate that carries weight is this was a one off .. it's not .. everyone feared this result before the game, and everyone knew this result once they saw the lineup ...

 

[Finney Is Back]

I actually think we may well go on a decent run now.

 

[Mikey10]

Look at the game when Lucas, Lo Celso and N'dombele were on and answer why the fudge weren't they on 20 minutes earlier and how the fudge Dele ended the game on pitch, please fudging tell me.

Because Poch is in panic mode, is making poor decisions, and the old weaknesses (inability to make the right substitutions being foremost amongst them) have resurfaced?

Has he gone yet?

I’ve a terrible feeling he’ll still be here at season’s end.

EDDIE HOWE

...is not the answer to any question which presently concerns our club. Allegri, Simeone, or even Jose or Rafa, however, might be.

 

[Mikey10]

Witch hunt ... the intelligence or lack of is sad.

I like logical rational thoughts but some really are exposing themselves for throwing their toys out ... almost wanting Poch to fail to say "See i ntold you ..."

If you like ‘logical rational thoughts’ then please see below.

When is it enough?

- no wins in 11 away
- 20 losses in our last 44 games
- 11th in the table
- Out the fizzy pop cup

please tell me, when is it enough? can he lose every fudging game? because right now we could be in 15th spot (no fluke, that's our form for the year) if not for GD, we are 4 points from relegation zone.

All you comments about players, rotation, could have taken chances, mate that carries weight is this was a one off .. it's not .. everyone feared this result before the game, and everyone knew this result once they saw the lineup ...

 

[Raziel]

‘If he played the same team as Tuesday and we got smashed, I would give him credit.’

WTF man, you’ve lost it. You’re more keen to prove that your idea of what is or isn’t working is correct than you are to just analyse the situation on its own merits. Taking it the other way, if we won today, but he had picked Rose et al, would you give him no credit? You are so sure that your idea is correct and that he can possibly have any reason to do what he is doing, that you would rather give him credit if we got ‘smashed’, because it would be the thing that you would have done. Crazy.

.

To answer this piece

- Playing the same side would have rewarded good performance, would allowed us to take some momentum/good feeling in this game. The old adage of not changing a winning side
- Instead we went back to a formula that hasn't worked in 10 months and has actually been getting worse for 3 full seasons now

If we won today, it would have been a smash and grab based on how he setup, is that our ambition now?

And again .. dead horse .. if he had done the same brick he did today, but made 1 or 2 changes at HT and got all 3 subs on by 70 minutes, kudos to him .. instead he did nothing

I'm sorry, I can't see the "grand plan" and the vision that he only has that equates to "doing nothing until behind, and bring on 2 subs against a high tempo team in the 83+ minutes" making any fudging sense whatsoever ..

 

[nayenezgani]

Because Poch is in panic mode, is making poor decisions, and the old weaknesses (inability to make the right substitutions being foremost amongst them) have resurfaced?



I’ve a terrible feeling he’ll still be here at season’s end.

...is not the answer to any question which presently concerns our club. Allegri, Simeone, or even Jose or Rafa, however, might be.

Benitez?! Jesus titty-fudging christ, I've heard it all now.

 

[Finney Is Back]

To answer this piece

- Playing the same side would have rewarded good performance, would allowed us to take some momentum/good feeling in this game. The old adage of not changing a winning side
- Instead we went back to a formula that hasn't worked in 10 months and has actually been getting worse for 3 full seasons now

If we won today, it would have been a smash and grab based on how he setup, is that our ambition now?

And again .. dead horse .. if he had done the same brick he did today, but made 1 or 2 changes at HT and got all 3 subs on by 70 minutes, kudos to him .. instead he did nothing

I'm sorry, I can't see the "grand plan" and the vision that he only has that equates to "doing nothing until behind, and bring on 2 subs against a high tempo team in the 83+ minutes" making any fudging sense whatsoever ..

One of the changes was forced on him (Lamela being out injured) although even then I am puzzled as to why he didn't just straight swap him for either Lo Celso, or if for some reason he doesn't think Lo Celso is ready yet and he really wanted to get Winks/Eriksen in the team then for one of them (although I don't think we should be playing either at the moment as they both make us a lot weaker).

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

BEN LAMBERT

 

[Jurgen the German]

Have barely skimmed through the last few pages. I’d be very keen to hear @BrainOfLevy’s thoughts on:

Why Ndombele didn’t start?
Why he left Eriksen on for so long when he contributed less than nothing and doesn’t want to be here?
Why Vertonghen didn’t start?
Why he left it until 60 minutes before making a sub when we were getting outplayed for the majority of it?
Why are his subs STILL so underwhelming?

I’m not at the stage where I want Poch to go but I must admit I am struggling to see why anyone has faith that he can A) improve on his deficiencies e.g. subs, in game management etc

B) Win trophies. There is no evidence so far that he can take us the next step and and win something. Too many occasions in big games we either don’t turn up or freeze or he makes completely nonsensical tactical decisions.

You never know what team he is going to select from one game to the next. We could win 8-0 and he would probably change the back four entirely and leave out someone who scored a hat trick.

 

[Robspur12]

I actually think we may well go on a decent run now.

Some positives from this week, Sanchez is looking as imperious as two seasons ago. Son is still Son. Kane is scoring. The defence looks better and we attack with purpose and intelligence through Ndombele. Lo Celso is looking good in his cameos. Sessegnon could be back soon. Teams will not be as good as Liverpool every week.

 

[Mikey10]

Benitez?! Jesus titty-fudging christ, I've heard it all now.

He occasionally wins things. Poch doesn’t. And he’s been used to working within a tight budget at Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

Let’s be honest, he can’t do much worse than our league form over the last 10 months - and our football has been s.h.i.t.e too, so he can’t drag that down a level.

These players need someone they can believe might drag them over the line. It ain’t Poch - he’s failed to do it too many times now. And he’s doing a very good impression of a man who no longer knows which direction he’s headed in.

Rafa is a pragmatist; he’d get points out of games that Poch isn’t getting anymore.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Have barely skimmed through the last few pages. I’d be very keen to hear @BrainOfLevy’s thoughts on:

Why Ndombele didn’t start?
Why he left Eriksen on for so long when he contributed less than nothing and doesn’t want to be here?
Why Vertonghen didn’t start?
Why he left it until 60 minutes before making a sub when we were getting outplayed for the majority of it?
Why are his subs STILL so underwhelming?

A) Ndombele's fitness is pretty poor, tbh. I can see why he's used the way he is, because he's routinely puffing at 60'. He played the full game against Red Star, so he wasn't going to start today, as much as I had hoped for otherwise.
B) No idea. I think he's genuinely trying to keep Eriksen et al happy for reasons best known to himself - maybe loyalty, maybe he just wants to get to January before pulling the trigger on all the utterly useless wasters in the squad. Of whom, sadly, Eriksen is now 100% a part.
C) Started against Red Star, played the whole game. Same reason as Ndombele above - unlike Ndombele, he seems to have actively lost fitness, but the end result is the same - he needs managing.
D) Poch has been utterly crap (probably the very worst in the league) at substitutions for five straight years, it will never change.
E) See above.

I’m not at the stage where I want Poch to go but I must admit I am struggling to see why anyone has faith that he can A) improve on his deficiencies e.g. subs, in game management etc

B) Win trophies. There is no evidence so far that he can take us the next step and and win something. Too many occasions in big games we either don’t turn up or freeze or he makes completely nonsensical tactical decisions.

You never know what team he is going to select from one game to the next. We could win 8-0 and he would probably change the back four entirely and leave out someone who scored a hat trick.

He showed faith in us when we weren't a club worth showing faith in, at least relative to the kinds of suitors he had at the time. It might turn out that he was a limited manager this whole time, but he deserves the time to show that, or prove otherwise. We owe him that much for the years he's given us.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Sequence of games since 4-0 win vs Palace at home:

- throw away a 2 goal lead vs Olympiacos
- lose away vs Leicester having had the lead
- lose on penalties vs Colchester in the Carabao cup
- Win at home vs Soton, with a man disadvantage for most of the game
- Lose 7-2 at home vs Bayern, the biggest home loss in Europe ever for us and any English team
- lose 3-0 away vs Brighton, and it could have been another Bayern scoreline
- draw 1-1 at home to bottom club Watford, and only because they can't finidh fot toffee and bcause their goalkeeper has a late howler
- win 5-0 home vs Red Star, good attacking performance and clean sheet without playing 3 key underperformers, 2 not even on the bench
- lose 2-1 away to Liverpool, having taken the lead after 40 seconds but having played 3 of those who were left out the previous game, and who many said had become 'bad apples' and were 'letting down the manager'...

Can anyone look at the above and tell me what about the sequence shows that the team, or Poch himself, are improving rather than going backwards.

 

[Pirate55]

Or is it: that you have a Davies returning from injury, a Dier coming off almost a year straight of injury and illness, and a Lamela that is seemingly one knock away from a few months out. Not to mention Sessegnon joining with hamstring problems.

The idea that it’s so easy to bomb these players out too soon is getting really tiresome. If he does it too soon, it renders them useless to us in our squad. It puts a lot of pressure on players that need to be eased back in and it takes away any reasonable back up, because you can’t bomb senior players and then ask to rely on them when you’ve done it.

He is absolutely a leader that is pragmatic and sees the bigger picture. The fact that he very obviously would like these guys to be sold and yet still plays them suggests to me he’s got some strategic thought behind his decision making, and he isn’t overly guided by emotion or personal preference. I quite like that about him.

The guy is stubborn as they come. He doesn’t adhere to his own principles. He is tactically naive. Most of the players he has bought haven’t improved us one iota. He has ruined some good players in Wanyama, Dier, Rose, Sanchez and Trippier to name a few.

His in game management is poor. He leaves subs too late. He doesn’t learn from his mistakes. He writes books which undermine. He allows a fly on the wall documentary at a critical time. He seemingly can’t motivate players. And last but not least he is not a winner and can’t install a winning mentality.

Unless he can prove me wrong in the next month, I think we would be better off with a new voice in the dressing room.

 

[Nigeyman]

Sequence of games since 4-0 win vs Palace at home:

- throw away a 2 goal lead vs Olympiacos
- lose away vs Leicester having had the lead
- lose on penalties vs Colchester in the Carabao cup
- Win at home vs Soton, with a man disadvantage for most of the game
- Lose 7-2 at home vs Bayern, the biggest home loss in Europe ever for us and any English team
- lose 3-0 away vs Brighton, and it could have been another Bayern scoreline
- draw 1-1 at home to bottom club Watford, and only because they can't finidh fot toffee and bcause their goalkeeper has a late howler
- win 5-0 home vs Red Star, good attacking performance and clean sheet without playing 3 key underperformers, 2 not even on the bench
- lose 2-1 away to Liverpool, having taken the lead after 40 seconds but having played 3 of those who were left out the previous game, and who many said had become 'bad apples' and were 'letting down the manager'...

Can anyone look at the above and tell me what about the sequence shows that the team, or Poch himself, are improving rather than going backwards.

Mate, we’re in a world of brick in all areas.

There’s loads I could say, but others have and continue to do it for me.

who’d a thunked that a few months ago?

I just wanna feel that buzz for this club and optimism that anything is possible, yet I cannot under the present regime... perhaps it’s better the devil you know, I would say Poch isn’t of sound mind with everything that’s gone on, hence he’s making some duff choices, that I accept can happen to any of us. I always want to believe we can win a trophy but with Poch I can’t, none of this makes me a happy bunny.

but time is a great healer and I hope we can start moving forwards again positively in time.

 

[Nigeyman]

Benitez?! Jesus titty-fudging christ, I've heard it all now.

Are you sure you’ve heard it all???

Not sure you have as a matter of FACT



How about we approach Southend for their manager?

 

[glorygloryeze]

I actually think we may well go on a decent run now.

What exactly are you basing these thoughts on? What is it that you've seen over the last 6 weeks or so, that makes you not actually think our run will get even worse?

 

[glorygloryeze]

A question for @thfcsteff and @BrainOfLevy :

You've both said the likes of Toby, Eriksen, Rose and even Jan are "bad apples" that the manager wants out, but whom he might need to keep sweet for now until they are gone, "squad harmony" etc

If that is the case, why are they being played in the most difficult and hardest games, rather then the easier ones?
What message are you giving to the likes of Ndombele when you are dropping them in the biggest/hardest game for those who are not only "bad apples" but also have been underperforming?

 

[thfcsteff]

That's more like it. Logical and backed with facts vs emotional rants

trust me, it get nowhere. Analogies will be pot-boiled down to literal comparisons. I'd leave it well alone if I were you...