Mata to utd. Draxler to arsenal. Are we fu**ed?

[veron23]

You understand that we aren't at the top of the best players lists right veron??

Our only chance of getting top players to come to us so that we can fight for the top spots is to either:

1) Take a punt on a good young prospect that no one else will risk, for instance Modric, who Wenger said didn't have the physical strength to mix it in the prem or Berba for a mid ranged fee.
2) Take on someone elses cast offs because the club can't afford to keep them as back ups (VdV, Ade).
3) Produce our own youth prospects.
4) Play in the Champions League and attract better players.

City are where they are because they offered obscene wages to players that were too good for them at the time. Without their money "the project" as they like to call it wouldn't have happened, as none of those players would've wasted a couple of years of their career at a mid table club with big ambitions.

Arsenal despite not having a sugar daddy kept up with the rest by making sure they had Champions League football, yes Wenger's coaching is a massive part of their success but I have no doubt that players like Cazorla would have gone elsewhere if they couldn't offer him the biggest stage to play on.

Liverpool have been canny in the transfer market like us, taking on players that are young or risky. Suarez was quality but when Liverpool went in for him not many of Europes elite were trying to gazump them? Sturridge and Coutinho too are great prospects, that may turn into world class players, but they aren't established world beaters yet. This system with Rodgers' philosophy could work, but if they fail this season and the next then they will find themselves in a similar position to ourselves, with the vultures looking to pick off their best players and them needing to start all over again.

I have no doubt that if we get ECL football this year we can upgrade a few positions and start rebuilding the stadium. We need a team of top youngsters to come through and develop into world beaters whilst being able to offer them everything but stupid wages. At the moment we have two more years before Eriksen and Lamela get picked off because we haven't been able to fight at the very top. Hopefully the Bale money injection will aid us in the long term, but the club needs more to survive long term else all we will see will be the revolving door.

im not expecting us to buy messi. but we can go for Luke Shaw cant we??? as i said earlier there are many examples of us getting big players. chelsea wanted modric - we got him. fergy wanted berbatov when he was in germany - we got him. fergy and wenger wanted bale - we were more agressive and got him.

lately weve shown poor decision making buying soldado and chadli and allowing players like shaw to be got by david "no clue" moyes

 

[veron23]

Perhaps we should use some other examples:

Carrick - signed for £2.5m, sold for £18.6m
Keane - signed for £7m, sold for £20m
Berbatov - signed for £10.9m, sold for £30.75m
Modric - signed for £16.5m, sold for £33m
Bale - signed for £7m, sold for £85.3m

a lot of our more recent signings could be sold on for a big profit too - Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Sandro, Eriksen etc and others signed for little money like Lennon and Rose could be sold for a lot more. On the whole we have done very well in our transfer dealings, there's no point saying "if only we could've had them all together" as we wouldn't have signed the subsequent players without selling the ones beforehand for a big profit. We haven't spent our own money for a good six or so years now, we recoup and we buy again.

so what are we doing with all this money????

 

[Rossi22]

Did we beat Chelsea to Modric? It was probably more of a Christian Eriksen type deal where the top clubs weren't sure on him so they don't mind a Spurs picking him up and then if he proves to be the real deal they can go and pay double/treble for him later on as money isn't a big issue to them. Same goes for Berbatov and probably the large majority of players we've signed.

 

[Jordinho]

im not expecting us to buy messi. but we can go for Luke Shaw cant we??? as i said earlier there are many examples of us getting big players. chelsea wanted modric - we got him. fergy wanted berbatov when he was in germany - we got him. fergy and wenger wanted bale - we were more agressive and got him.

lately weve shown poor decision making buying soldado and chadli and allowing players like shaw to be got by david "no clue" moyes

Don't think that's quite how it works.

 

[veron23]

Don't think that's quite how it works.

so we shouldnt be in for shaw?

 

[Rossi22]

so what are we doing with all this money????

We're reinvesting it in more players who we hope we improve enough so we can sell on for a big profit in order to buy a load more. We don't have the money to keep these players AND buy others on top, not significantly anyway.

 

[Cochise]

Maybe in the summer we had a chance with Luke Shaw but not now. I'll re-iterate, we can only sign players that the top teams don't want. If a player has a choice between us and a £60k a week wage and Chelsea with a £120k a week wage they will choose Chelsea because there is a chance for medals, money and to play with the best in the world. Berba did have his admirers but none of them really pushed for him as they weren't sure how he would turn out, we took the risk that others couldn't afford to.

Bale is probably the exception though, I have no idea how we managed to pull that deal off.

 

[Mumorn]

Maybe in the summer we had a chance with Luke Shaw but not now. I'll re-iterate, we can only sign players that the top teams don't want. If a player has a choice between us and a £60k a week wage and Chelsea with a £120k a week wage they will choose Chelsea because there is a chance for medals, money and to play with the best in the world. Berba did have his admirers but none of them really pushed for him as they weren't sure how he would turn out, we took the risk that others couldn't afford to.

Bale is probably the exception though, I have no idea how we managed to pull that deal off.

Bale has said that he would get more games at Tottenham which is why he come to us.

 

[Rossi22]

Maybe in the summer we had a chance with Luke Shaw but not now. I'll re-iterate, we can only sign players that the top teams don't want. If a player has a choice between us and a £60k a week wage and Chelsea with a £120k a week wage they will choose Chelsea because there is a chance for medals, money and to play with the best in the world. Berba did have his admirers but none of them really pushed for him as they weren't sure how he would turn out, we took the risk that others couldn't afford to.

Bale is probably the exception though, I have no idea how we managed to pull that deal off.

Because he didn't want to be lost amongst the crowd at Utd and knew he'd have a better chance of playing and progressing with Spurs. That's really the only way we can beat the bigger(richer) clubs to a signing.

 

[veron23]

by the sounds of it alot of you are happy with us being 5th forever or just dont rate the opposition.

firstly
i beleive we can get big player if we are a) ambitious enough b) smart/early enough

secondly
mata rooney januzaj
rvp

and
walcott ozil draxler
giroud

scares me and spells the end of our champions leagues hopes for the foreseeable future.
draxler is a beast, let me tell you

 

[joey55]

We've got to build the stadium.

Arsenal have been handicapped for 10 years while they've been paying for theirs, but Wenger was smarter than everyone else and got them through it pretty unscathed.

Now is our turn. AVB was supposed to be the man who got us through it, nicking CL by being smarter than the better resourced clubs. But now we're a bit screwed so will maybe have to settled for 10 years of 6th places.

Redknapp was doing that and you despised him for it! Compare out net spend of transfers and wages during the Redknapp years with the likes of Arsenal, Villa, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and Emirates Marketing Project and you'll see we nicking top 4 finishes despite all our main rivals for those spots spending more. I'm sure Wenger did a great job, but surely he couldn't have done as well as Redknapp did for us could he? With reflection common sense tells you that if he's barely holding onto a top 4 spot with Arsenals over all spending he'd be well and truly screwed at Spurs! But I doubt you and many others would want to look at it like that would you?

I think we are very lucky now that we have finally got a man in charge who not only worked very closely with Redknapp, but understands what we are trying to achieve as a club, as he was previously the technical co-ordinator. As much as you'd hate to admit, the current set up with Sherwood in charge is about as close as we are ever going to get to the kind of system you want.

To be compete with the top clubs without their resources, we will need a common sense manger, not a fraudulent "coach" type. We will also need to try and produce our own players as much as possible, though at this level it's incredibly tough. We are hugely unlikely to find a more suitable candidate for that job than Tim. He is a rare example of a manager who is genuinely passionate about the development of the club as a whole instead of just the 1st team. He's got the perfect philosophy for a club with a long term vision. His work as technical co-ordinator means he appreciates what goes on beneath first team level and thus could finally be the man to make sure the club from top to bottom is pulling the same direction. Instead of constantly trying to doubt him, every Spurs fan should be more desperate for Sherwood to succeed than any other manager in recent history, as having a man who genuinely knows the club as he does in charge would give us a huge advantage over many of our rivals.

Also stop spouting on about Ajax and Porto etc as they offer a useless analogy, as the circumstances are entirely different. It's so pathetic that people still bang on about those examples, as if they think those who run Ajax or Porto could reproduce a similarly successful set up in this country.

 

[veron23]

Redknapp was doing that and you despised him for it! Compare out net spend of transfers and wages during the Redknapp years with the likes of Arsenal, Villa, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and Emirates Marketing Project and you'll see we nicking top 4 finishes despite all our main rivals for those spots spending more. I'm sure Wenger did a great job, but surely he couldn't have done as well as Redknapp did for us could he? With reflection common sense tells you that if he's barely holding onto a top 4 spot with Arsenals over all spending he'd be well and truly screwed at Spurs! But I doubt you and many others would want to look at it like that would you?

I think we are very lucky now that we have finally got a man in charge who not only worked very closely with Redknapp, but understands what we are trying to achieve as a club, as he was previously the technical co-ordinator. As much as you'd hate to admit, the current set up with Sherwood in charge is about as close as we are ever going to get to the kind of system you want.

To be compete with the top clubs without their resources, we will need a common sense manger, not a fraudulent "coach" type. We will also need to try and produce our own players as much as possible, though at this level it's incredibly tough. We are hugely unlikely to find a more suitable candidate for that job than Tim. He is a rare example of a manager who is genuinely passionate about the development of the club as a whole instead of just the 1st team. He's got the perfect philosophy for a club with a long term vision. His work as technical co-ordinator means he appreciates what goes on beneath first team level and thus could finally be the man to make sure the club from top to bottom is pulling the same direction. Instead of constantly trying to doubt him, every Spurs fan should be more desperate for Sherwood to succeed than any other manager in recent history, as having a man who genuinely knows the club as he does in charge would give us a huge advantage over many of our rivals.

Also stop spouting on about Ajax and Porto etc as they offer a useless analogy, as the circumstances are entirely different. It's so pathetic that people still bang on about those examples, as if they think those who run Ajax or Porto could reproduce a similarly successful set up in this country.

im a fan of Tim but im not sure what difference his knowledge of our youth players will make? just cos he knows the players it doesnt mean they are good enough?
and the fact that he was under 21's coach doesnt mean hes a advocate of youth players. it just means that was his job at the times so what else is he meant to advocate? for all we know he just saw the post as a stepping stone and now he has the top job could lose sight of our youth system.

if, however you have some knowledge to suggest that he is big on youth scouting and his goal is for spurs to eventually starting churning out our own messis and januzajs then im all ears.

 

[lurker of old]

Re spending £120m, I was given "Soccernomics" for Christmas. One of the points they make is that there is no link between expensive transfers and success. You can spend £30 million and not have a player who can make the first team. (doh!) There is a clear link between wages and success: they say spend less on transfers, more on higher wages to keep your star players.

 

[harr1984]

so we shouldnt be in for shaw?

Who says we aren't/weren't in for Shaw? But a player like him knows he can go to any team he wants. Why would he come to Spurs ahead of Chelsea or Man U? The ground breaking wages we offer? Those bright lights on a Thursday night in our 37,000 breathtaking stadium?

 

[harr1984]

by the sounds of it alot of you are happy with us being 5th forever or just dont rate the opposition.

firstly
i beleive we can get big player if we are a) ambitious enough b) smart/early enough

secondly
mata rooney januzaj
rvp

and
walcott ozil draxler
giroud

scares me and spells the end of our champions leagues hopes for the foreseeable future.
draxler is a beast, let me tell you

You're living in a fantasy world. All the biggest clubs are aware of the 'big' players and you can't just steal a player from under the noses of your rivals. Take Hazard as a prime example, we made contact early but still held out for the best deal.

Redknapp had it right when he said fundamentally players follow the wages, and with the big players demanding the big bucks we just can't compete- for now at least...

 

[veron23]

You're living in a fantasy world. All the biggest clubs are aware of the 'big' players and you can't just steal a player from under the noses of your rivals. Take Hazard as a prime example, we made contact early but still held out for the best deal.

Redknapp had it right when he said fundamentally players follow the wages, and with the big players demanding the big bucks we just can't compete- for now at least...

your right i must of been in a very long dream when i thought i saw vdv, modric, berbatov, bale, adebayor, eriksen and lamela in spurs shirts. basically what your saying is there is no point existing as no good player will ever arrive at spurs. the fact is good players become available for all kinds of reasons at different points in their careers and its our job to sieze those opportunities like we did with the players we just mentioned for example. thers only so many big teams in the world, they cant have all the good players - there is opportunities for us to get these players if we do our job properly. as opposed to spending 26m on soldado while jackson martinez sits at porto as one of many examples.

yes i do believe we can get shaw. chelsea dont seem to be interested so its a straight fight between us and utd. not every player is about money. shaw is a local boy - if its a choice of staying south near friends and family, playing at a club with a good youth policy, encouraging coach, many players your own age, many players british - as opposed to going up north to a team in limbo with an average manager who in the summer will lose rio, vidic, evra and maybe rooney - then yes, he can be convinced.

the point is we should bid. we cant complain if he rejects us but we can complain if we dont show the ambition to try

 

[braineclipse]

your right i must of been in a very long dream when i thought i saw vdv, modric, berbatov, bale, adebayor, eriksen and lamela in spurs shirts. basically what your saying is there is no point existing as no good player will ever arrive at spurs. the fact is good players become available for all kinds of reasons are different points in their careers and its our job to sieze those opportunities like we did with the players we just mentioned for example. thers only so many big teams in the world, they cant have all the good players - there is opportunities for us to get these players if we do our job properly. as opposed to spending 26m on soldado while jackson martinez sits at porto as one of many examples.

How old are you? Is English your first language?

 

[harr1984]

your right i must of been in a very long dream when i thought i saw vdv, modric, berbatov, bale, adebayor, eriksen and lamela in spurs shirts. basically what your saying is there is no point existing as no good player will ever arrive at spurs. the fact is good players become available for all kinds of reasons at different points in their careers and its our job to sieze those opportunities like we did with the players we just mentioned for example. thers only so many big teams in the world, they cant have all the good players - there is opportunities for us to get these players if we do our job properly. as opposed to spending 26m on soldado while jackson martinez sits at porto as one of many examples.

yes i do believe we can get shaw. chelsea dont seem to be interested so its a straight fight between us and utd. not every player is about money. shaw is a local boy - if its a choice of staying south near friends and family, playing at a club with a good youth policy, encouraging coach, many players your own age, many players british - as opposed to going up north to a team in limbo with an average manager who in the summer will lose rio, vidic, evra and maybe rooney - then yes, he can be convinced.

the point is we should bid. we cant complain if he rejects us but we can complain if we dont show the ambition to try

Of course we can get good players, but only ones the biggest sides don't want. But you said we can get big players if we're smart enough and act early enough which is incorrect. We have to wait and see whether other bigger clubs will come in for players before we can get them which is probably why so many of our deals take an age to conclude. You keep going on about Luke Shaw, he is a young English left back with massive ability and they don't come in abundance. The biggest teams in England want him, we have no chance I'm afraid...

 

[chicken_badge]

We are streets ahead of Everton in salary and fees , and attractiveness given our London status . Yet on the pitch there is little between us.

So let's not get all wobbly over two transfers. We've stayed close enough over the last few years and there's no sign we will drift further yet. But I do think to challenge for the title then yes a big change like a reckless sugar daddy is necessary

 

[scaramanga]

Redknapp was doing that and you despised him for it! Compare out net spend of transfers and wages during the Redknapp years with the likes of Arsenal, Villa, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and Emirates Marketing Project and you'll see we nicking top 4 finishes despite all our main rivals for those spots spending more. I'm sure Wenger did a great job, but surely he couldn't have done as well as Redknapp did for us could he? With reflection common sense tells you that if he's barely holding onto a top 4 spot with Arsenals over all spending he'd be well and truly screwed at Spurs! But I doubt you and many others would want to look at it like that would you?

I think we are very lucky now that we have finally got a man in charge who not only worked very closely with Redknapp, but understands what we are trying to achieve as a club, as he was previously the technical co-ordinator. As much as you'd hate to admit, the current set up with Sherwood in charge is about as close as we are ever going to get to the kind of system you want.

To be compete with the top clubs without their resources, we will need a common sense manger, not a fraudulent "coach" type. We will also need to try and produce our own players as much as possible, though at this level it's incredibly tough. We are hugely unlikely to find a more suitable candidate for that job than Tim. He is a rare example of a manager who is genuinely passionate about the development of the club as a whole instead of just the 1st team. He's got the perfect philosophy for a club with a long term vision. His work as technical co-ordinator means he appreciates what goes on beneath first team level and thus could finally be the man to make sure the club from top to bottom is pulling the same direction. Instead of constantly trying to doubt him, every Spurs fan should be more desperate for Sherwood to succeed than any other manager in recent history, as having a man who genuinely knows the club as he does in charge would give us a huge advantage over many of our rivals.

Also stop spouting on about Ajax and Porto etc as they offer a useless analogy, as the circumstances are entirely different. It's so pathetic that people still bang on about those examples, as if they think those who run Ajax or Porto could reproduce a similarly successful set up in this country.

I think you've just managed to write down the complete opposite of everything I think in one single post. Well done, that's quite an achievement!

Rather than post something incredibly long-winded that nobody has time to read and disagree with each point in turn, I'll just point out that I disagree with every single point you've made there.