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Josh Onomah

Spur of the moment said:
It's only a theory but watching that video I think we can maybe get something of an inkling as to why.

I'm no expert on Villa but it's well known that they have struggled mightily to score goals over the past few seasons so it's probably safe to assume that one of the reasons is they have lacked someone who can open up defences. To find a player therefore who can not only see a pass through to his attackers but also execute it to perfection and with regularity is something quite rare. In that clip Onamah does it time and time again. Brilliantly.

So maybe Bruce has seen this in him and is playing him higher up the park in order to exploit his potential to unlock defences for him.

Thoughts?
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That's certainly possible - especially given that Onomah is likely to have a better sense of movement and general awareness than many (although certainly not all) of the Villa players. However, that's for Villa, a team floating around in upper mid-table in the Championship - in those circumstances, playing a kid who's proven most impressive in central midfield behind the striker(s) might be a good move. But why would Poch do that too? If I remember correctly, nearly all of Onomah's appearances last season were in positions he didn't really seem suited for (CAM, winger, etcetera), which seems odd when you consider that Poch played Winks, a smaller, (possibly) more technical, less physical midfielder, in his favoured position in the centre of the park. Logically, you'd expect the opposite to happen - Onomah playing deep and Winks playing in attacking midfield.

Maybe there's something both Poch and Bruce see in him in terms of his potential at CAM - but it wasn't apparent when he was thrust into action alongside Eriksen, Alli, Kane and co. Conversely, he's put in really good performances at DM/CM for the U-20s, but both Bruce and Poch have been so-so about using him there. :p
 
DubaiSpur said:
That's certainly possible - especially given that Onomah is likely to have a better sense of movement and general awareness than many (although certainly not all) of the Villa players. However, that's for Villa, a team floating around in upper mid-table in the Championship - in those circumstances, playing a kid who's proven most impressive in central midfield behind the striker(s) might be a good move. But why would Poch do that too? If I remember correctly, nearly all of Onomah's appearances last season were in positions he didn't really seem suited for (CAM, winger, etcetera), which seems odd when you consider that Poch played Winks, a smaller, (possibly) more technical, less physical midfielder, in his favoured position in the centre of the park. Logically, you'd expect the opposite to happen - Onomah playing deep and Winks playing in attacking midfield.

Maybe there's something both Poch and Bruce see in him in terms of his potential at CAM - but it wasn't apparent when he was thrust into action alongside Eriksen, Alli, Kane and co. Conversely, he's put in really good performances at DM/CM for the U-20s, but both Bruce and Poch have been so-so about using him there. :p
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Agree with all of that, it does seem very odd. However I recall that following his outstanding performances as a deep-lying CM for England in the U20s WC, Poch was asked why he was not used in that position for Tottenham? His answer was something along the lines that a player of his quality needs to be able to play in any outfield position and that it was an important part of his development.

As to Villa, I remember reading a few posts above that following JO's injury others came in and performed well and that their results started to improve so it became difficult for Bruce to drop the player who replaced him. But Bruce is clearly a big admirer of Josh so presumably part of the explanation as to why he is being played further forward maybe simply that he had to fit him in somewhere.

Whatever the explanation, it's also worth remembering that Onomah is still very young and has relatively little experience playing at the highest level. So as with many a great player before him maybe we are yet to find out what his best position will end up being. Think of Bale moving from LW when he first arrived at Tottenham to LB when BAE got injured, then to LWB when BAE returned, then when the goals really began to flow to a roaming / deep-lying striker and now for RM where they already have a top striker mainly at RW. Also Kane, whom many on here, when he broke into the first team, were convinced his best position was as a Sheringham-alike No 10 (and maybe still are!).

The great thing is that Josh is now showing his true quality regardless of which position he is being asked to play in and is looking more and more like someone capable of becoming an outstanding performer somewhere in the middle of the park at the very highest level.

It only remains for him to fulfil his promise, hopefully for Tottenham and England.
 
DubaiSpur said:
That's certainly possible - especially given that Onomah is likely to have a better sense of movement and general awareness than many (although certainly not all) of the Villa players. However, that's for Villa, a team floating around in upper mid-table in the Championship - in those circumstances, playing a kid who's proven most impressive in central midfield behind the striker(s) might be a good move. But why would Poch do that too? If I remember correctly, nearly all of Onomah's appearances last season were in positions he didn't really seem suited for (CAM, winger, etcetera), which seems odd when you consider that Poch played Winks, a smaller, (possibly) more technical, less physical midfielder, in his favoured position in the centre of the park. Logically, you'd expect the opposite to happen - Onomah playing deep and Winks playing in attacking midfield.

Maybe there's something both Poch and Bruce see in him in terms of his potential at CAM - but it wasn't apparent when he was thrust into action alongside Eriksen, Alli, Kane and co. Conversely, he's put in really good performances at DM/CM for the U-20s, but both Bruce and Poch have been so-so about using him there. :p
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Winks is shorter, but quite strong. Look at the way he's held off opponents in our last two games. I don't think Onomah would have done better, at least not at this age or, even more so, last season.

Winks has taken to PL football like a fish to water. He's played with an intensity and confidence that perhaps has lacked from Onomah. Winks has looked trustworthy at every stage and Pochettino has used him deep in midfield in difficult game conditions all along. Onomah has looked a bit less confident, not about his skills on the ball, but on winning duels, making tackles, impacting the game though running and positioning.

That's what he needs to improve before he'll be considered a regular deep in midfield for us I think. I think that's what we've sent him to Villa to learn.
 
He certainly looked to be playing quicker and more aggressive in that Villa clip. I guess that is what Poch is looking for. Not that he can't play deeper, but that he clearly has the talent and needs to learn how to adapt his style to get the best out of the position on the pitch he is playing. He's always been a bit safe when he's played, which suits the deeper role and not the role behind the striker.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No there have been plenty of separate articles

I actually agree with you and don’t see him playing Centre mid but then dembele was converted there from a forward so who knows
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Yeah, but all stemming from the same original claim.

I remember this happening the same when all the press (and subsequently fans) were claiming Kyle Walker would be converted into a CB (as a way of explaining us signing the two Kyles). But anyone who had actually watched him more than cursory knew this was ridiculous. Ditto here I think
 
Only a small clip but the action in the Fulham game seemed to show more of his physical strength, maybe he has been told to keep it simple when he played for us and was not allowed to express himself, although I'm sure Poch rates him as he used him a lot in big games.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Only a small clip but the action in the Fulham game seemed to show more of his physical strength, maybe he has been told to keep it simple when he played for us and was not allowed to express himself, although I'm sure Poch rates him as he used him a lot in big games.
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When he really gets his strength, he'll become as physically imposing as Dembele. He already does that at U21 level, but he's starting to be able to do it with adults now too.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Watching the villa game, completely wasted by Bruce playing off the striker, just doesn’t see enough of the ball.
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He's taking a pasting from the Villa fans but I don't know what they expect when he's spent most of the game watching the ball go over him or trying to win headers, he's a complete fish out of water in that kind of footballing environment. Very much a contrast to CCV with Sheffield United who are a visibly well-coached side who like to get the ball down and progress it up the pitch, rather than just lumping it.
 
Yoof said:
He's taking a pasting from the Villa fans but I don't know what they expect when he's spent most of the game watching the ball go over him or trying to win headers, he's a complete fish out of water in that kind of footballing environment. Very much a contrast to CCV with Sheffield United who are a visibly well-coached side who like to get the ball down and progress it up the pitch, rather than just lumping it.
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Sheffield have a solid history with their manager and has been there for some time So they know their job and how it works (much like us)

At Villa their making it up as they go along IMO
 
Thought he started brightly and did get on the ball, playing people in to space and showing good touches but Villa lost hold of the game and he was bypassed to some degree. Fairly often he was their furthest man forward when Kodja (sp) had drifted wide and it just doesn't suit him.
 
braineclipse said:
Winks is shorter, but quite strong. Look at the way he's held off opponents in our last two games. I don't think Onomah would have done better, at least not at this age or, even more so, last season.

Winks has taken to PL football like a fish to water. He's played with an intensity and confidence that perhaps has lacked from Onomah. Winks has looked trustworthy at every stage and Pochettino has used him deep in midfield in difficult game conditions all along. Onomah has looked a bit less confident, not about his skills on the ball, but on winning duels, making tackles, impacting the game though running and positioning.

That's what he needs to improve before he'll be considered a regular deep in midfield for us I think. I think that's what we've sent him to Villa to learn.
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Aye, but he won't learn that playing in attacking midfield for Villa as well.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Aye, but he won't learn that playing in attacking midfield for Villa as well.
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I think a lot of that can be learned playing in most positions and generalized to be used in other positions.

I don't think he's lacking skill, ability, potential or anything like that. He just needs to up his game to a first team level and he seems to need a bit more first team football to do that.
 
Question to those who watch/have watched our youth players closely: why you think Onomah has gone out on loan whilst Winks has stayed and played at the club?
What is it about the attributes of these two players currently that has led to the different ways Poch is managing them this season?

I'd especially be interested in @Yoof views on this one.

Ta
 
glorygloryeze said:
Question to those who watch/have watched our youth players closely: why you think Onomah has gone out on loan whilst Winks has stayed and played at the club?
What is it about the attributes of these two players currently that has led to the different ways Poch is managing them this season?

I'd especially be interested in @Yoof views on this one.

Ta
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For me the two key things are that Winks is 15 months/an age group older, and that Onomah's game is based more of his physicality (cf Winks' passing), so it will take him a bit longer to excel against adults.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Question to those who watch/have watched our youth players closely: why you think Onomah has gone out on loan whilst Winks has stayed and played at the club?
What is it about the attributes of these two players currently that has led to the different ways Poch is managing them this season?

I'd especially be interested in @Yoof views on this one.

Ta
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Attitude/mentality, IMO.

I think Poch made it clear when Onomah went on loan. He said, basically, Onomah needs to understand he deserves to be on the field.

Ability not a problem, belief is.

Clearly with Winks that isnt an issue at all.
 
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