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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

Raziel said:
Mate, the media is saying exactly that .. it's clickbait brick at it's best

West Ham will end where they usually do, outside of European spots but safe, and yes vs. recent years that is an improvement but comparing Moyes to Jose is a stretch to be kind. I put Leeds and Wolves there because they are both sides that I wouldn't consider a walkover for midlevel sides, on their day they can cause upsets, in West Ham's next 8 games, I saw one easy one.

Losing in the league is on Mourinho, he said he can't fix everything on his own, not he can't fix things. Not interested in a defence of Jose conversation because he has to be accountable for results, but to make an issue of those two statements? he needs a better CB, and the ones he has needs to stop falling asleep once a match (an issue they have had way before him), his record suggest his coaching is pretty good (and it was a prompted question btw).
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I wouldn't be surprised at West ham finishing in an EL place, not because they are that great but because everyone else other than city has been very up and down.
They along with a few other teams will revert back to the norm next season but with higher expectations that could be their downfall.
It's been a strange season and not one to judge much on imv.
 
glasgowspur said:
I wouldn't be surprised at West ham finishing in an EL place, not because they are that great but because everyone else other than city has been very up and down.
They along with a few other teams will revert back to the norm next season but with higher expectations that could be their downfall.
It's been a strange season and not one to judge much on imv.
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Not impossible and they are well placed, but they will need to keep the run going (not many have had truly extended runs this season)
 
think a lot of people will be in for a surprise if they think West Ham will dissolve and fall back. They're good at what they do, they won't beat City or United probably but again there's a reason they are where they are.
 
Diamond Lights said:
think a lot of people will be in for a surprise if they think West Ham will dissolve and fall back. They're good at what they do, they won't beat City or United probably but again there's a reason they are where they are.
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No hostile and toxic fan base present to put the players off?? (I do know WHL would be pretty horrific right now too!)
 
MKSpur said:
No hostile and toxic fan base present to put the players off?? (I do know WHL would be pretty horrific right now too!)
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Think it's more than that. Moyes isn't trying to entertain, he doesn't need to either. Dont forget this team flirted with relegation last year.

He's bought players to fit his sytem, defensively solid (Coufal), two midfielders to protect and batter (especially Soucek). West Ham have conceded less than Man U, Everton, Liverpool, but two more goals than us. They don't score buckets, nor is the system designed to, but get this, they've scored more than us this season which should come as a surprise given our attacking players and the fact they have one converted winger as their only striker.

Each player knows his role, his position, and what the philosophy is for the team (basically have Antonio run into the opposing defence and free up players behind like Lingard).

I just don't get how we can sit here and accept falling behind West Ham. It was "the players fault" at Chelsea and Man U. Those same players now under Ole for example seem to be performing mostly (Pogba, Shaw for example).
 
billyiddo said:
We've played teams that sit back primarily and we have put extra attacking bodies on the pitch - so we're naturally positioned higher up with more attack minded players available to get on the ball - that isn't evidence of there being a plan being worked on on the training pitch.

That's not to say it isn't being worked on but there's no evidence as of yet that it is.
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Thats my biggest problem with Mourinho, along with taking a group of players and making it play to less than the sum of its parts. They're somewhat linked, but are manager flaws in Mourinho - they're core components of a manager's role. We need a manager to install a system and make players better
 
Raziel said:
The question on that would be timing, I find it hard to believe that in last 3-4 weeks we haven't been working on attacking plays (considering how we are playing).
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Bro you might not believe it but this information is nothing new, it has always been the case that Mourinho does not train attacking shape. He never has done, instead just like the article claims (and it's far from the first time it's been claimed) he leaves his attacking players freedom to play and devise how they want to play.

This has worked in the past when he's either had complementary players a la Drogba-Lampard-Robben-Duff or just extremely talented and creative players like Ronaldo, Ozil, Higuain, Benzema, Eto'o, Milito etc.

He has two here in Kane and Son but is lacking both the AM (he's tried Ndombele but he is not an AM) and the right sided attacker to make the freedom based attacking system work.

Thats why I said even on Sunday it played out as us just throwing players on the pitch and going for it rather than a set system and playbook.

I'm not saying giving the attackers freedom is a bad thing, it works when you have the right pieces, I think Jose is now realising he doesn't have all the pieces he requires.
Raziel said:
This is absolute flimflam, Poch style at it's best has
- Yes, FB's forward with a DM falling back to cover
- Pressing game, typically with a higher line
- Possession game

Where Poch's game failed in my opinion was there wasn't much in the final 3rd movements, honestly our strategy was get to Eriksen and hope for the best, or have Toby hoof direct. Kane, Son & Dele did the rest (similar to how it is now minus Dele)

Compare that to a Pool or even Leicester where there are clearly motions to get the ball (quite direct) to front runners.
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This is fair, we relied on Eriksen but I do believe we practised attacking patterns it's just that Eriksen was instrumental in all of them as was the well drilled Toby pass out to Rose on the left wing. You could see the pattern and shape. At the time my thing was we needed additional creativity to go along with Eriksen because he was the sole conduit. We needed a Ndombele in CM when we had Eriksen instead we had 2 of Dier, Wanyama and Dembele who while all were combatative they all lacked flair and invention and quick inventive passing.

Poch eventually got his passing CM in Ndombele and Lo Celso but unfortunately didn't last long enough to get them in the team and evolve his system.
 
Reading the article, I am just laughing at Spurs players. One provided info about what Jose does. Are these players school children? If a team is weak defensively, won't you expect there to be more defensive sessions? If a team is weak offensively, won't there be more attacking sessions?

That article is a hackjob for people who want to see what they are expecting to see.
 
Bishop said:
Bro you might not believe it but this information is nothing new, it has always been the case that Mourinho does not train attacking shape. He never has done, instead just like the article claims (and it's far from the first time it's been claimed) he leaves his attacking players freedom to play and devise how they want to play.

This has worked in the past when he's either had complementary players a la Drogba-Lampard-Robben-Duff or just extremely talented and creative players like Ronaldo, Ozil, Higuain, Benzema, Eto'o, Milito etc.

He has two here in Kane and Son but is lacking both the AM (he's tried Ndombele but he is not an AM) and the right sided attacker to make the freedom based attacking system work.

Thats why I said even on Sunday it played out as us just throwing players on the pitch and going for it rather than a set system and playbook.

I'm not saying giving the attackers freedom is a bad thing, it works when you have the right pieces, I think Jose is now realising he doesn't have all the pieces he requires. This is fair, we relied on Eriksen but I do believe we practised attacking patterns it's just that Eriksen was instrumental in all of them as was the well drilled Toby pass out to Rose on the left wing. You could see the pattern and shape. At the time my thing was we needed additional creativity to go along with Eriksen because he was the sole conduit. We needed a Ndombele in CM when we had Eriksen instead we had 2 of Dier, Wanyama and Dembele who while all were combatative they all lacked flair and invention and quick inventive passing.

Poch eventually got his passing CM in Ndombele and Lo Celso but unfortunately didn't last long enough to get them in the team and evolve his system.
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Funny he doesn't train no attacking shape yet the team had far more shots which were wasted.
 
afsoc4life said:
Funny he doesn't train no attacking shape yet the team had far more shots which were wasted.
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Because we have good attacking players and he does give them the freedom to attack in which ever way they feel makes sense. I feel like you didn't read what I said regarding this and instead took a defensive stance.

This is the opposite approach to say Pep who drills shape and attacking patterns hence why every Pep side plays the same way even with different players and qualities.
 
Diamond Lights said:
Think it's more than that. Moyes isn't trying to entertain, he doesn't need to either. Dont forget this team flirted with relegation last year.

He's bought players to fit his sytem, defensively solid (Coufal), two midfielders to protect and batter (especially Soucek). West Ham have conceded less than Man U, Everton, Liverpool, but two more goals than us. They don't score buckets, nor is the system designed to, but get this, they've scored more than us this season which should come as a surprise given our attacking players and the fact they have one converted winger as their only striker.

Each player knows his role, his position, and what the philosophy is for the team (basically have Antonio run into the opposing defence and free up players behind like Lingard).

I just don't get how we can sit here and accept falling behind West Ham. It was "the players fault" at Chelsea and Man U. Those same players now under Ole for example seem to be performing mostly (Pogba, Shaw for example).
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It was a tongue in cheek comment, I do think Moyes is doing a good job there and does seem to have made some astute signings that fit their system.
 
Bishop said:
I'm not saying giving the attackers freedom is a bad thing, it works when you have the right pieces, I think Jose is now realising he doesn't have all the pieces he requires. This is fair, we relied on Eriksen but I do believe we practised attacking patterns it's just that Eriksen was instrumental in all of them as was the well drilled Toby pass out to Rose on the left wing. You could see the pattern and shape. At the time my thing was we needed additional creativity to go along with Eriksen because he was the sole conduit. We needed a Ndombele in CM when we had Eriksen instead we had 2 of Dier, Wanyama and Dembele who while all were combatative they all lacked flair and invention and quick inventive passing.

Poch eventually got his passing CM in Ndombele and Lo Celso but unfortunately didn't last long enough to get them in the team and evolve his system.
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But this piece seems to be the same for both managers? rely on a great CM and the individual skill of the front line to make magic happen?

My bone of contention in the article is many things Poch sides had, posession, press, FB's overlap, etc. a well formulated final third plan wasn't one of them, way too many times we just huffed and puffed with tons of possession and did nothing ..
 
Raziel said:
But this piece seems to be the same for both managers? rely on a great CM and the individual skill of the front line to make magic happen?

My bone of contention in the article is many things Poch sides had, posession, press, FB's overlap, etc. a well formulated final third plan wasn't one of them, way too many times we just huffed and puffed with tons of possession and did nothing ..
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Each approach relies on key creative players but with the difference being more philosophically based. Poch drills attacking shape and pattern whereas Mou leaves it fairly freeform and expects his players to stand up and be counted. It's why mentality is important for him.

Poch tries to create a pattern of play so that each player knows where they are and what is expected of them in a any given attacking circumstance.

Mou expects the players to be able to devise solutions based on their quality and attacking attributes.

As I said it works when Mou has both the quality of player and the full complement of attributes. Right now we lack both an AM and the right sided attacker (the expected Bale role).


My bone of contention in the article is many things Poch sides had, posession, press, FB's overlap, etc. a well formulated final third plan wasn't one of them, way too many times we just huffed and puffed with tons of possession and did nothing .
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This was due to the over reliance on a single creative player and overly combatative centre of midfield. Wanayama, Dembele and Dier are not creative players, they don't move the ball quickly and they don't pass between the lines. So the ball moved forward too slowly then we lacked the creative wide forward which I think was necessary. Son is the goal scoring WF but on the other side Poch need a creative player. Mahrez was basically perfect for the system we played but instead we had Lamela who for his 3ndeavour isnt of the required quality and latterly Moura who isn't much of a passer.
 
we played a pressing game don't forget which a fair proportion of our attacking play was based around, which obviously would have been worked on on the training pitch.
 
Seems to be a bit of smoke coming out at the moment between the above article, the articles saying the club admire Nagelsmann/Rodgers and another article I saw saying the club are concerned but willing to give Jose the season.

Seems like momentum is building - he needs some wins soon. Lose the next couple (Burnley and Fulham) and the pressure will ratchet up massively.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Seems to be a bit of smoke coming out at the moment between the above article, the articles saying the club admire Nagelsmann/Rodgers and another article I saw saying the club are concerned but willing to give Jose the season.

Seems like momentum is building - he needs some wins soon. Lose the next couple (Burnley and Fulham) and the pressure will ratchet up massively.
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Some of it is positioning .. lets be clear, next 5 games

- Lose 3 and it's probably a death sentence, especially if any is a bad loss
- Win all 5, he likely gets a pass to end of season

Every manager is 3 bad results from a crisis
 
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