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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

We have only scored 36 goals from 22 games.
Over a season that would be 62 points.

Only one team in the last ten seasons has finished in the top 4 with 62 goals scored or fewer. Van Gaal's United team in his first season.

We have conceded 22 goals in 22 games.
That's 38 over a season.

In the last ten seasons 15 teams have finished in the top 4 with 38 goals or more conceded.

By controlling the post match narrative, Jose Mourinho has convinced a lot of people that individual mistakes from the defence are the problem.

Every team makes these mistakes.

The real problem is complete lack of an attacking structure and plan. But he can't just brush that onto the players. So he deflects and blames the defence.
 
Pirate55 said:
And therein lies the problem.
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We have good scouts. Over the years we have identified and contacted many players who have gone on to prove themselves at very high levels. What we don't have is a chairman/DoF who has the willingness to make those deals before those players are proven.

Just remember we were in early for the likes of Cavani, Suares, Dias, Madison, Grealish, Aubameyang, Mousa Dembele, Hazard, Perriera, Castange, Jaden Sancho, Mane and even Bruno Fernandes.

Those are just some off the top of my head. We have the scouts, we identify the players. See just have a reticence to complete. Which is frustrating when our best buys have come from that model. Son, Modric, Bale, Dele, Berbatov, Ndombele etc.
 
Bishop said:
We have good scouts. Over the years we have identified and contacted many players who have gone on to prove themselves at very high levels. What we don't have is a chairman/DoF who has the willingness to make those deals before those players are proven.

Just remember we were in early for the likes of Cavani, Suares, Dias, Madison, Grealish, Aubameyang, Mousa Dembele, Hazard, Perriera, Castange, Jaden Sancho, Mane and even Bruno Fernandes.

Those are just some off the top of my head. We have the scouts, we identify the players. See just have a reticence to complete. Which is frustrating when our best buys have come from that model. Son, Modric, Bale, Dele, Berbatov, Ndombele etc.
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We don't have a chairman/DoF willing to sign players before they are proven you say. Yet the list of successful signings you make are mainly players that weren't proven at this level or at least in this league. That seems like a contradiction to me.

All teams will have lists of players that they in hindsight should have signed. Perhaps ours is worse/longer than other teams, but I think that's influenced quite a lot by our transfer budget if true.
 
Modric THFC said:
We have only scored 36 goals from 22 games.
Over a season that would be 62 points.

Only one team in the last ten seasons has finished in the top 4 with 62 goals scored or fewer. Van Gaal's United team in his first season.

We have conceded 22 goals in 22 games.
That's 38 over a season.

In the last ten seasons 15 teams have finished in the top 4 with 38 goals or more conceded.

By controlling the post match narrative, Jose Mourinho has convinced a lot of people that individual mistakes from the defence are the problem.

Every team makes these mistakes.

The real problem is complete lack of an attacking structure and plan. But he can't just brush that onto the players. So he deflects and blames the defence.
Click to expand...
Who did van gaals team finish above that season? And how did their GD compare?

and Chelsea finished 3rd two years ago with the exact goal difference and last season they had +15 to finish 4th

I mean if we want to use historical form to predict the future then great
 
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Modric THFC said:
We have only scored 36 goals from 22 games.
Over a season that would be 62 points.

Only one team in the last ten seasons has finished in the top 4 with 62 goals scored or fewer. Van Gaal's United team in his first season.

We have conceded 22 goals in 22 games.
That's 38 over a season.

In the last ten seasons 15 teams have finished in the top 4 with 38 goals or more conceded.

By controlling the post match narrative, Jose Mourinho has convinced a lot of people that individual mistakes from the defence are the problem.

Every team makes these mistakes.

The real problem is complete lack of an attacking structure and plan. But he can't just brush that onto the players. So he deflects and blames the defence.
Click to expand...
Over the course of the season, the lack of an attacking plan has been the issue. But he was talking about this particular game and for this game he is right, defensive mistakes cost us not our attack.

In the last two games, there have been some good signs around our attacking play and hopefully, that will continue for the rest of the season. I expect us to be more defensive against City, but after that, there should be no reason to revert to parking the bus.
 
Modric THFC said:
We have only scored 36 goals from 22 games.
Over a season that would be 62 points.

Only one team in the last ten seasons has finished in the top 4 with 62 goals scored or fewer. Van Gaal's United team in his first season.

We have conceded 22 goals in 22 games.
That's 38 over a season.

In the last ten seasons 15 teams have finished in the top 4 with 38 goals or more conceded.

By controlling the post match narrative, Jose Mourinho has convinced a lot of people that individual mistakes from the defence are the problem.

Every team makes these mistakes.

The real problem is complete lack of an attacking structure and plan. But he can't just brush that onto the players. So he deflects and blames the defence.
Click to expand...

Very few top teams will make five mistakes (or series of mistakes) which result in five goals in a single game.

I’m not sure when the penny will drop for some people, but the simple fact is that half of this squad isn’t good enough to allow us to compete at a level at which we might win serious competitions. They weren’t good enough when Poch was here and, now that some of them are beginning to creak a bit, they certainly aren’t good enough now.

That won’t change no matter who is in charge.
 
braineclipse said:
We don't have a chairman/DoF willing to sign players before they are proven you say. Yet the list of successful signings you make are mainly players that weren't proven at this level or at least in this league. That seems like a contradiction to me.

All teams will have lists of players that they in hindsight should have signed. Perhaps ours is worse/longer than other teams, but I think that's influenced quite a lot by our transfer budget if true.
Click to expand...
We don't commit fully to that model in the way the likes of Leicester, Athletico Madrid and Dortmund do. We have the semi basis of it but when we do identify the players far too often we want to see proof of their quality before we buy. Usually by the time there is hard proof everyone else is aware and we've missed the window for getting that player.

The examples I gave where we did do it are to show it's the most successful model we use but we don't commit fully to it and tbh even mentioning Son in that list is wrong because we first looked at him when he was at Hamburg but again didn't want to take the risk so let Leverkusen buy him first and then went in for him again after he had a good season there paying double what Leverkusen had paid for him. That time we were lucky because none of the bigger boys had cottoned on to him.

It takes some guts and yes sometimes we'll make mistakes but the pluses will far outweigh the negatives. You buy them early and cheap, the outlay is less the potential loss is less and you can always move such players on. But the successful transfers will have a fantastic effect on the squad and you will never have our 2018+ situation of a stagnant squad because there will always be fresh faces offering a challenge.

To be clear the main point of my post was to refute the tired claim I keep seeing that we have bad scouts when the opposite is true. We spot the players but it's not the scouting department that decides whether or not to sign said players.
 
Bishop said:
We don't commit fully to that model in the way the likes of Leicester, Athletico Madrid and Dortmund do. We have the semi basis of it but when we do identify the players far too often we want to see proof of their quality before we buy. Usually by the time there is hard proof everyone else is aware and we've missed the window for getting that player.

The examples I gave where we did do it are to show it's the most successful model we use but we don't commit fully to it and tbh even mentioning Son in that list is wrong because we first looked at him when he was at Hamburg but again didn't want to take the risk so let Leverkusen buy him first and then went in for him again after he had a good season there paying double what Leverkusen had paid for him. That time we were lucky because none of the bigger boys had cottoned on to him.

It takes some guts and yes sometimes we'll make mistakes but the pluses will far outweigh the negatives. You buy them early and cheap, the outlay is less the potential loss is less and you can always move such players on. But the successful transfers will have a fantastic effect on the squad and you will never have our 2018+ situation of a stagnant squad because there will always be fresh faces offering a challenge.

To be clear the main point of my post was to refute the tired claim I keep seeing that we have bad scouts when the opposite is true. We spot the players but it's not the scouting department that decides whether or not to sign said players.
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We didn’t look at son at Hamburg. Southampton did and Poch brought his name to Spurs when he joined (they talk about in the son documentary, although they dont say Spurs didn’t know about him)
We have either had budget constraints that have meant shopping in a different way (the Ndubs) or we have gone out and brought every player we were linked with seriously in the window... Poch also window, last summer for Jose.
The reality is it always come down to £££ as we’re not a sugar daddy club. Sometimes we will take a risk and sometimes we can’t afford too, or may get an alternative buy in (Doherty was brought before Castagne and cost £10m less, although may not be as good)
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We didn’t look at son at Hamburg. Southampton did and Poch brought his name to Spurs when he joined (they talk about in the son documentary, although they dont say Spurs didn’t know about him)
We have either had budget constraints that have meant shopping in a different way (the Ndubs) or we have gone out and brought every player we were linked with seriously in the window... Poch also window, last summer for Jose.
The reality is it always come down to £££ as we’re not a sugar daddy club. Sometimes we will take a risk and sometimes we can’t afford too, or may get an alternative buy in (Doherty was brought before Castagne and cost £10m less, although may not be as good)
Click to expand...

No I remember we did, he was very strongly linked during the WONDERFUL 7 window. We sent scouts over and had a detailed report about his progress at Hamburg. We decided not to go for him at the time. That's why when Poch came in and wanted Son there was easy agreement to sign him because the club already had a long established interest.

I understand there are constraints and I'm not arguing we should just splurge but I am saying when we do find interesting players we need sometimes go for them rather than trying for the sure thing. When we have gone for the project players they have tended to work out far better than the finished articles like Soldadao or Dempsey. [emoji1787]
 
Bishop said:
No I remember we did, he was very strongly linked during the WONDERFUL 7 window. We sent scouts over and had a detailed report about his progress at Hamburg. We decided not to go for him at the time. That's why when Poch came in and wanted Son there was easy agreement to sign him because the club already had a long established interest.

I understand there are constraints and I'm not arguing we should just splurge but I am saying when we do find interesting players we need sometimes go for them rather than trying for the sure thing. When we have gone for the project players they have tended to work out far better than the finished articles like Soldadao or Dempsey. [emoji1787]
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What window? the bale sale one?
You could be right but I don’t remember seeing a thing and Poch makes a thing out of knowing about him before Spurs

Dempsey was a decent signing. He played for us at the same level he did when we brought him. And he was cheap by comparison.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
What window? the bale sale one?
You could be right but I don’t remember seeing a thing and Poch makes a thing out of knowing about him before Spurs

Dempsey was a decent signing. He played for us at the same level he did when we brought him. And he was cheap by comparison.
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Yes during the Bale window we were very interested in him as a direct Bale replacement but decided against it. I remember not knowing much about him before that but paying s hell of a lot of attention after that point and being passed off when he moved to Leverkusen instead and I thought we had missed out. Was pleasantly surprised when we managed to get him a few years later, he'd become one of my favourite bundesliga players by that point.

Re Dempsey I would have loved to have chatted with you about him at the time. He was awful but the best we had. Sad, sad times. [emoji28]
 
Bishop said:
Yes during the Bale window we were very interested in him as a direct Bale replacement but decided against it. I remember not knowing much about him before that but paying s hell of a lot of attention after that point and being passed off when he moved to Leverkusen instead and I thought we had missed out. Was pleasantly surprised when we managed to get him a few years later, he'd become one of my favourite bundesliga players by that point.

Re Dempsey I would have loved to have chatted with you about him at the time. He was awful but the best we had. Sad, sad times. [emoji28]
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He wasn’t world class
Problem was people expected a striker when he was more like a wing forward or a Cahill/Poyet type. I’d bet his goal to minute ratio is very good here
And that wasn’t the best Spurs side ever under AVB
 
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