Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[StephenH]

Yeah, and it worked perfectly both times. That's the blueprint.

So why has it stopped working. We cant answer this question from where we all sit.

 

[Baleforce]

those two performances, whilst not my cup of tea, showed that the players were onboard with things at that point - takes a lot of mental strength and concentration to defend like that for 90%+ of a game - so i do find some of the blame placed on the players since then a little strange

That is literally their job.

 

[billyiddo]

That is non-figuratively their job.

ok?

 

[Baleforce]

So why has it stopped working. We cant answer this question from where we all sit.

The players not working hard enough, and they are giving into mental weaknesses, you could see the death in our performance in each of the last two games as soon as we conceded.

 

[billyiddo]

if it worked before it will always work, nothing ever changes and no one ever figures you out

 

[StephenH]

The players not working hard enough, and they are giving into mental weaknesses, you could see the death in our performance in each of the last two games as soon as we conceded.

But the managers' job is to manage this type of situation. He can't.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

So why has it stopped working. We cant answer this question from where we all sit.

Because the players are having lapses of concentration possibly
It’s not like we’re conceding worldies are we
I mean I’ve said it a lot but the issue is we concede very poor very defendable goals
And we only seem to score great goals
That’s an unhealthy balance
ben Davies efforts for Brighton’s goal were woeful
The defending for Liverpool’s goals... shocking for all of them one way or another
Wycombe bullied the highly valued pairing of Sanchez and Toby without having any match practice
There is a lot of comments around why do we set up defensively when we’re not good at it. I assume it’s because we’re of good at it we choose to help those defenders with more support. Reversely your cAn help the defence by attacking more (Liverpool style) which we were doing before the west hame game
I do think 3-4-3 is more attacking, but only with attacking wing backs. We didn’t have them on Sunday for sure

 

[Finney Is Back]

Things were going OK till the turn of style and attitude around the West Ham game.
If nobody is going to come in that can turn this around and Mourinho cant change things. Sadly the current setup is not going to stop Arsenal and even West Ham waving as they sail pass us in the league.

Things were going ok until teams realised that if they picked up Harry Kane when he drops deep and stop him from turning on the ball by fair means or foul then we have almost no way of creating a chance. Of course now Kane is out teams don’t even have to worry about that (as our Brighton XG showed).

 

[StephenH]

The buck stops..............

As I said we are basically guessing. @Bedfordspurs

 

[billyiddo]

Because the players are having lapses of concentration possibly
It’s not like we’re conceding worldies are we
I mean I’ve said it a lot but the issue is we concede very poor very defendable goals
And we only seem to score great goals
That’s an unhealthy balance
ben Davies efforts for Brighton’s goal were woeful
The defending for Liverpool’s goals... shocking for all of them one way or another
Wycombe bullied the highly valued pairing of Sanchez and Toby without having any match practice
There is a lot of comments around why do we set up defensively when we’re not good at it. I assume it’s because we’re of good at it we choose to help those defenders with more support. Reversely your cAn help the defence by attacking more (Liverpool style) which we were doing before the west hame game
I do think 3-4-3 is more attacking, but only with attacking wing backs. We didn’t have them on Sunday for sure

we're conceding a normal amount of goals, the problem is we aren't scoring enough

 

[Baleforce]

if it worked before it will always work, nothing ever changes and no one ever figures you out

Of course it needs to be fluid, but the opposition can't exploit gaps that don't appear.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that our supreme forward line is at its most effective attacking a defence which is retreating and out of shape. We played a lot of possession football under Poch (and with other players and managers before that) and repeatedly struggled with breaking down deep lying teams. Theoretically, with this group, sitting deep makes us less likely to concede and more likely to score.

Where Jose is failing, is that players are still making mistakes, and there is too much variance in performance. We don't fix our problems on the training pitch or the whiteboard, the changes need to happen in the players heads.

 

[AdamB]

I mean I’ve said it a lot but the issue is we concede very poor very defendable goals

We do but the tactics where we aim to keep a clean sheet and nick a goal rely on perfect defending.

Realistically, all teams have some good forwards, wingers, playmakers to varying degrees and its just a fact of life that sometimes those opponents will trick our defenders, or be quicker than them, or beat them to a header, or whatever means and they will score.

We cant rely on our defenders always being better than the opponents forwards. Perhaps it'll work if you spend £70m on each of 4 defenders, but we cannot do that.

If you sit back and give the opposition 60%-70% sometimes their players will be better than ours and score. Its why his tactics may no sense whatsoever

 

[billyiddo]

Of course it needs to be fluid, but the opposition can't exploit gaps that don't appear.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that our supreme forward line is at its most effective attacking a defence which is retreating and out of shape. We played a lot of possession football under Poch (and with other players and managers before that) and repeatedly struggled with breaking down deep lying teams. Theoretically, with this group, sitting deep makes us less likely to concede and more likely to score.

Where Jose is failing, is that players are still making mistakes, and there is too much variance in performance. We don't fix our problems on the training pitch or the whiteboard, the changes need to happen in the players heads.

players will always make mistakes and the more you force them to defend the final third the more likely it is a mistake will lead to a goal.

if he could go out and buy a Van Dyke maybe it could work long term but that aint happening

 

[Baleforce]

But the managers' job is to manage this type of situation. He can't.

It's taking longer than I thought, but do you think he's had long enough to work on the mental issues in a squad that has choked multiple times over the past 5 years in a club that has been doing that for almost it's entire history?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

we're conceding a normal amount of goals, the problem is we aren't scoring enough

I don’t know if we are conceding a normal amount
I assume we’re conceding on par with the XG against as their easy chances generally to score
We definitely aren’t scoring enough though

 

[AdamB]

Where Jose is failing, is that players are still making mistakes

That is life I'm afraid. SOmetimes opponents force mistakes. If you give them most of the ball, they will have more chance of forcing mistakes[/QUOTE]

 

[Finney Is Back]

The players not working hard enough, and they are giving into mental weaknesses, you could see the death in our performance in each of the last two games as soon as we conceded.

Disagree.... We were very much second best to Brighton before we conceded. Against Liverpool we also gave up the initiative after about 15 to 20 minutes

 

[Baleforce]

players will always make mistakes and the more you force them to defend the final third the more likely it is a mistake will lead to a goal.

if he could go out and buy a Van Dyke maybe it could work long term but that aint happening

I don't think thats true, look at Jose's Chelsea/Inter/Porto teams, they just didn't make mistakes, and the raw materials he started with were no better than what he has here.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Of course it needs to be fluid, but the opposition can't exploit gaps that don't appear.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that our supreme forward line is at its most effective attacking a defence which is retreating and out of shape. We played a lot of possession football under Poch (and with other players and managers before that) and repeatedly struggled with breaking down deep lying teams. Theoretically, with this group, sitting deep makes us less likely to concede and more likely to score.

Where Jose is failing, is that players are still making mistakes, and there is too much variance in performance. We don't fix our problems on the training pitch or the whiteboard, the changes need to happen in the players heads.

Did we struggle against deep lying teams? We did very well under Poch until the last season when teams realised they were better off pressing us than sitting back IMO.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We do but the tactics where we aim to keep a clean sheet and nick a goal rely on perfect defending.

Realistically, all teams have some good forwards, wingers, playmakers to varying degrees and its just a fact of life that sometimes those opponents will trick our defenders, or be quicker than them, or beat them to a header, or whatever means and they will score.

We cant rely on our defenders always being better than the opponents forwards. Perhaps it'll work if you spend £70m on each of 4 defenders, but we cannot do that.

If you sit back and give the opposition 60%-70% sometimes their players will be better than ours and score. Its why his tactics may no sense whatsoever

Liverpool had a LOT s’more chances in the first half at anfield... they didn’t score their goal that day in that half through anything other than a lucky deflection. And they were playing better then. The key in the recent game was we switched off again... on a key game, again... at a critical stage.
And out attacking efforts after that goal were woeful.
Big games hinge on big chances and mistakes and for a while our mistakes were missing chances we should have scored whilst conceding the soft goals. We’re now not even making the chances to miss