Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[Bedfordspurs]

Come on man...

I think the players realise they’re accountable too
Hence these comments

 

[billyiddo]

I think the players realise they’re accountable too
Hence these comments

I think you're confusing the 'we' in his statement for 'we the players' rather than the collective playing to instruction.

We never sat back and defended like this previously so one way or the other it leads back to management.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think you're confusing the 'we' in his statement for 'we the players' rather than the collective playing to instruction.

We never sat back and defended like this previously so one way or the other it leads back to management.

Previously when?
I mean everyone seems to think it’s a Jose thing and we have seen us attack a lot under him... but since West Ham things have changed
And I do think the players kind set changed as they knew that it was criminally poor of them to concede 3 goals that way
Jose reacted too and we had those games where arguably it was acceptable to defend the way we did
Now I think the fear is there in the players as they know their actually as likely to concede as score the 2nd goal and mentally they can’t work out when to stick or twist

 

[fernadez]

Previously when?
I mean everyone seems to think it’s a Jose thing and we have seen us attack a lot under him... but since West Ham things have changed
And I do think the players kind set changed as they knew that it was criminally poor of them to concede 3 goals that way
Jose reacted too and we had those games where arguably it was acceptable to defend the way we did
Now I think the fear is there in the players as they know their actually as likely to concede as score the 2nd goal and mentally they can’t work out when to stick or twist

There's merit in this, anyone who's played the game and had a team where you don't trust that the other team won't score, you don't try and attack more, instinctively as a team you try and not concede so between the players natural reaction to not being able to defend and the managers tactics results in us shutting down when we go ahead.

 

[billyiddo]

Previously when?
I mean everyone seems to think it’s a Jose thing and we have seen us attack a lot under him... but since West Ham things have changed
And I do think the players kind set changed as they knew that it was criminally poor of them to concede 3 goals that way
Jose reacted too and we had those games where arguably it was acceptable to defend the way we did
Now I think the fear is there in the players as they know their actually as likely to concede as score the 2nd goal and mentally they can’t work out when to stick or twist

Prior to Mourinho - we never used to shut up shop, it's something which has come in since his arrival. Same thing happened at United, same happened at Chelsea 2nd time around - you can pin it on the players if you want but the track record of the manager shows what's what imo.

If it's by design or if it's a result of other things it ultimately leads back to him and his management style - and his job to resolve.

 

[AdamB]

Prior to Mourinho - we never used to shut up shop, it's something which has come in since his arrival. Same thing happened at United, same happened at Chelsea 2nd time around - you can pin it on the players if you want but the track record of the manager shows what's what imo.

...and the way which we're evolving is very similar to what happened to Utd under him

Jose is very very lucky that fans are in the ground at the moment

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Prior to Mourinho - we never used to shut up shop, it's something which has come in since his arrival. Same thing happened at United, same happened at Chelsea 2nd time around - you can pin it on the players if you want but the track record of the manager shows what's what imo.

If it's by design or if it's a result of other things it ultimately leads back to him and his management style - and his job to resolve.

100%
It’s why a Mourinho side wouldn’t have been spanked by Brighton like we did

 

[billyiddo]

400%
It’s why a Mourinho side wouldn’t have been spanked by Brighton like we did

i dunno if you think this is some kind of gotcha or what but i don't really understand the relevance

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

...and the way which we're evolving is very similar to what happened to Utd under him

Jose is very very lucky that fans are in the ground at the moment

The thing is, which we have all said from the start. It is fine when your winning but this style of play when your not is not really acceptable. Particularly if your going to be mid table.

Think if we dont get top 4 his job could be in danger,dont think a possible league cup win will change things either.

At best he gets another year but really hope we are looking down the line to see a possible successor. We need to think long term.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

i dunno if you think this is some kind of gotcha or what but i don't really understand the relevance

Defending is key to the game
An effort to shut up shop can help sometimes
Sometimes just doing the basics helps
You referenced how we played in the past...

and his track record is still one of the very best out there. Even with football that people don’t like. That Chelsea team won the league, and United won 2 1/2 trophies under him

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The thing is, which we have all said from the start. It is fine when your winning but this style of play when your not is not really acceptable. Particularly if your going to be mid table.

Think if we dont get top 4 his job could be in danger,dont think a possible league cup win will change things either.

At best he gets another year but really hope we are looking down the line to see a possible successor. We need to think long term.

He has to get CL as a minimum

 

[billyiddo]

Defending is key to the game
An effort to shut up shop can help sometimes
Sometimes just doing the basics helps
You referenced how we played in the past...

and his track record is still one of the very best out there. Even with football that people don’t like. That Chelsea team won the league, and United won 2 1/2 trophies under him

Yeah and hopefully he wins the league cup with us this season, but as with Chelsea and United his track record didn't save him from getting the boot, despite winning trophies - nor will it here.


I referenced the past because i was pointing out how the sit-back-and-defend-a-lead approach is his, in response to you suggesting the players were doing it of their own accord - do you have anything to say on that or are you now agreeing that it is his approach? I'm confused as you seem to be arguing both sides here

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah and hopefully he wins the league cup with us this season, but as with Chelsea and United his track record didn't save him from getting the boot - nor will it here.


I referenced the past because i was pointing out how the sit back and defend a lead approach is his in response to you suggesting the players were doing it of their own accord - do you have anything to say on that or are you now agreeing that it is his approach? I'm confused as you seem to be arguing both sides here

I think it’s a big combination
We have heard him say numerous times it’s not how I want them to play
We have heard the players say it’s not how they want to play
Are they all on the same message?
I think it’s a multitude of things but confidence in the teams ability to defend it a huge part of it. And that’s a combination of player errors, manager calls and also us not taking our chances that we should
It makes for a fragile set up
And as it’s a repeating issue it gets worse
His style is about results - I don’t think anyone can argue with that
Historically his teams have scored a lot of goals too, but his successful ones tend to make the least “silly” errors. We’re still making those errors and if and it has to be weighing on both him and the players
I don’t think he will change anything until the team stop doing that

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Indeed...

I understand the need to be patient (I am a Tottenham Hotspur supporter after) but this is tedious stuff. With the players we have, the approach is simply wrong. In Ndombele (a player, BTW, who was coated here last season despite the reasons behind his malaise being obvious to anyone with a shred of empathy) he has one of the most creative players in Europe, in Kane and Son, well, they know where the net is, in Hojberg a warrior and in the likes of Bergwijn and Alli, genuine options to augment our attack. If Lo Celso can ever get fit for a time, what an asset, and Bale will always be worth a punt off the bench if nothing else. He has attacking options yet he cannot avoid reverting to players behind the ball sitting deep bypassing midfield after 70 mins.
fudge me it is tedious!

It's quite simply trust. He sets the trust bar so high, it manifests fear into the players he does select and the ones he doesn't, have characteristics he doesn't trust and they find it near on impossible to change.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I applaud him for recognising the issue though

Applaud him for saying something,...even Stevie Wonder can recognise it!

 

[AdamB]

The thing is, which we have all said from the start. It is fine when your winning but this style of play when your not is not really acceptable. Particularly if your going to be mid table.

Think if we dont get top 4 his job could be in danger,dont think a possible league cup win will change things either.

At best he gets another year but really hope we are looking down the line to see a possible successor. We need to think long term.

Agreed. I could see the atmosphere at WHl turning toxic late 2021 and it forcing Levy's hand.

My only worry, really *only* worry, is whether Kane and Son decide that they want out if Mourinho leaves - not because they like Mourinho, but they just want some success

Thomas Tuchel is currently free.....

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I think it’s a big combination
We have heard him say numerous times it’s not how I want them to play
We have heard the players say it’s not how they want to play
Are they all on the same message?
I think it’s a multitude of things but confidence in the teams ability to defend it a huge part of it. And that’s a combination of player errors, manager calls and also us not taking our chances that we should
It makes for a fragile set up
And as it’s a repeating issue it gets worse
His style is about results - I don’t think anyone can argue with that
Historically his teams have scored a lot of goals too, but his successful ones tend to make the least “silly” errors. We’re still making those errors and if and it has to be weighing on both him and the players
I don’t think he will change anything until the team stop doing that

In the Amazon documentary he was always telling the players to press and be further forward.

The thing that will save/help him is the thing he wont do. Which is play youngsters, they listen and implement tactics more freely then older players.

Worked for Poch,the scum up the road look reinvigorated since putting youth in the first team.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I think it’s a big combination
We have heard him say numerous times it’s not how I want them to play
We have heard the players say it’s not how they want to play
Are they all on the same message?
I think it’s a multitude of things but confidence in the teams ability to defend it a huge part of it. And that’s a combination of player errors, manager calls and also us not taking our chances that we should
It makes for a fragile set up
And as it’s a repeating issue it gets worse
His style is about results - I don’t think anyone can argue with that
Historically his teams have scored a lot of goals too, but his successful ones tend to make the least “silly” errors. We’re still making those errors and if and it has to be weighing on both him and the players
I don’t think he will change anything until the team stop doing that

That's a fair assessment of the Jose mindset.

Also after Wolves he said post match 'i didn't ask my players to play like that. Don't ask me ..ask my players, they will tell you'. No matter how much authority you think Jose holds, you'd have to admit he is likely to be telling the truth, as denying saying something that you actually did and then putting it on the players is a fast track to losing the dressing room.

BUT the day to day way Jose operates, his expectations, his behaviour, his words can definitely create his culture, and I think that culture is he rules by fear (intentionally or not)

 

[Baleforce]

I don’t see any logic in a crowd getting on a managers back whilst they are trying to implement something new.

You have to give them a chance. Even more so when they have proven themselves successful elsewhere.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don’t see any logic in a crowd getting on a managers back whilst they are trying to implement something new.

You have to give them a chance. Even more so when they have proven themselves successful elsewhere.

I agree
But then the argument would be that we’re paying him a huge £££ to deliver
Arguably a cup and CL is a good return
But that’s not guaranteed