ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
And on many levels
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Jose Mourinho - SACKED
- Thread starter mjc23
- Start date
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
But I think there could quite reasonably be a correlation between defending with 9/10 men and achieving a decent defensive record. Defend with 5/6 and you might see why we defend with more?.
Fwiw I think the number of defenders is a red herring we just need to play with more confidence and less fear, use our best weapons and best players more often to hurt the opposition. Passing to be braver to transition between the lines. There are many so called 'lesser' teams that pass better than us, what they don't have is Ndombele s Kane's and Sons to do the hardest bit at the end.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
You may be right but i think the first point of call when taking over a team is to try and stop the goals against you, we have worked on that and the numbers show we are doing that part well. Now we have to start being more progressive going the other way.
As they say Rome was not built in a day
Bullet
Andy Thompson
I'm praying that you're right i.e. MouMou has been working on the defensive side to a massive extent, so that when he unleashes us to play forwards, we have a reliable base.
So this whole "defend a 1-0 lead on the edge of your own box" thing is HOPEFULLY purely a stepping stone to the final endgame, and not the final endgame.
Note - in a few matches we attacked at will and scored hatfuls of goals... we got 7 in the Europa, 5 against Soton, spanked 6 in at United, then got 3 against Spam, it was heavenly... we attacked Wolves and scored within a minute... likewise against other teams like Palace when we actually attacked... we scored. We must have a bloody good xG for "those few minutes we actually attack". That is sorta joking but sorta true, the reason we defend for hours on end is because we scored so 'soon' in the game. Which can be construed as a good thing I guess.
NB. I watched Man Utd vs Wolves last night and there were chances at either end, United started to dominate and Wolves were out on their feet, so knackered from all the runs they had made and having 2 or 3 newbies who had never played in the Prem or were kids, they were relying on Moutinho playing yet another full 90... so in the end Utd pounced on the tired legs and got a deflected winner in the last minute. This is probably what MouMou is guarding against; extreme tiredness and being all over the shop defensively, I can kind of understand why he hates that as it felt inevitable that a goal would fly in... but by the same token it is infuriating that we aren't playing to the strengths of the greatest English goalscorer ever to walk the planet.
So this whole "defend a 1-0 lead on the edge of your own box" thing is HOPEFULLY purely a stepping stone to the final endgame, and not the final endgame.
Note - in a few matches we attacked at will and scored hatfuls of goals... we got 7 in the Europa, 5 against Soton, spanked 6 in at United, then got 3 against Spam, it was heavenly... we attacked Wolves and scored within a minute... likewise against other teams like Palace when we actually attacked... we scored. We must have a bloody good xG for "those few minutes we actually attack". That is sorta joking but sorta true, the reason we defend for hours on end is because we scored so 'soon' in the game. Which can be construed as a good thing I guess.
NB. I watched Man Utd vs Wolves last night and there were chances at either end, United started to dominate and Wolves were out on their feet, so knackered from all the runs they had made and having 2 or 3 newbies who had never played in the Prem or were kids, they were relying on Moutinho playing yet another full 90... so in the end Utd pounced on the tired legs and got a deflected winner in the last minute. This is probably what MouMou is guarding against; extreme tiredness and being all over the shop defensively, I can kind of understand why he hates that as it felt inevitable that a goal would fly in... but by the same token it is infuriating that we aren't playing to the strengths of the greatest English goalscorer ever to walk the planet.
Bishop
John Lacy
What was the last goal we scored that didn't have an element of opposition error? All goals have a mistake in then otherwise no goals would every be scored.
As we aren't playing automations in defense we have to expect a certain number of errors and individual mistakes across the course of the season. Given that's the case maybe scoring or at least attempting to score more than a solitary goal as well looking after the ball better would be in our interest?
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
We have higher quality attacking players, I expect us to force defensive errors on other teams whilst not making any ourselves.
That our defenders are not automatons yet is a knock against Jose, I’ll give you that one, I expected him to have them perfected by now.
Yes the system is highly defensive, but the main reason we have stopped winning games is that our attacking play hasn’t been as good as earlier in the season imo.
awesome dawson
Mitchell Thomas
Happy New Year from our Portuguese bus driver.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
The problem is that the reliable(?) base has been achieved by sitting very deep and packing the defence, that makes it incredibly hard for us to mount attacks. We’ll have to sacrifice one or two of our players defensive positions (or just take our starting line higher up the pitch) to become a better attacking team and that undoes the entire way that we’ve improved defensively.You may be right but i think the first point of call when taking over a team is to try and stop the goals against you, we have worked on that and the numbers show we are doing that part well. Now we have to start being more progressive going the other way.
As they say Rome was not built in a day
Small clubs/countries play football the way we are playing as it reduces the odds of conceding. Those small/clubs countries aren’t actually trying to win things though.... just survive/avoid embarrassment.
The only thing I can think is that perhaps there is some logic in Jose gradually moving us up the pitch. The players now know the opponent they have to defend against, the spaces they need to occupy and the runs they need to track. Taking a line 10 yards higher but keeping that same discipline might be a start and then moving 5 yards higher in a few weeks time and then another 5 yards in another few weeks may be a way to improve but it is a strange way to do things and I don’t think I have seen a manager do this before.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Wrote the above when you could see what was happening at the beginning of December.
Going top stopped the team’s development. Step one was always to get us sound defensively. But that wasn’t the end. It took a year or more for Mourinho to achieve. Then we got top of the league and the team, fans, manager became precious. The system was delivering results. But had we been further down the league we’d have been developing more, asking more.
The draw at palace, the performance at the arse were where we lacked some expression and desire to dictate. Hopefully now we will take a next step and add more strings to our bow: an ability to control games with a little more possession.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
We achieved defensive solidity back in July when we employed the same ultra defensive tactics between then and the end of the season - since then we haven't developed our game plan and in regards to how we attack we have seen no progress whatsoever - As Finney says above and i have said previously sitting super deep and playing with next to no attacking intent is not building a solid base or starting with defense as you alter the very thing that makes it work as soon as you allow more bodies forward.
It's funny really because the only goals we're conceding atm are coming where we are playing to defend - and yet when we're actually pushing forward to score we look threatening, all Mourinho has to do is have us playing like it's 0-0 one we've take the lead against the lesser teams (Sunday League attitude) - it all comes from his mindset tho which was a problem at Chelsea 2nd time around and United so it remains to see if he will release the shackles
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Exactly. While we were top of the league a month ago you could see it was an issue. But *because* we were top of the league we didn’t kick on and develop.
The defensive foundation became no longer a foundation but the default.
Since Poch, getting the midfield right remains the key for me. We need players in the middle to be able to dictate. All too often we rely on Kane dropping back. We need a steady midfield unit that will transition consistently.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
It's been an issue as long as it's been in place as we were scraping wins that should have been more comfortable. Now the results are cstching up with us the problem is more clear to see.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
Greece 2004
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Agreed. Though it perhaps was because we played Leeds, but our pressing looked a lot better.
Not that bothered by the period in the second half when we were pinned back a bit, as long as it's for periods of games and part of an overall strategy that includes other ways of playing.
Not getting carried away. Leeds fit us pretty well, we had more rest and we went ahead due to a clumsy penalty at a time when a goal could have come at either end.
Signs of improvement though and that's good to see.
metalgear
Luka Modric
Looking like top 4 is going to be a challenge 
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Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Ole is a fudging donkey with the most expensive squad in PL (maybe even Europe)
Lets see if he does anything, a stupid expensive squad with ridiculous wages for a SF and top 4 challenger ..
An expensive squad that not many people would have traded with ours at the end of the transfer window i would bet.
Think most pre season predictions on here would have them behind us - you may think he's a donkey but he's doing a good job atm, certainly better than what what he is being credited for