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isn't it time to stop the Y word...?

This might be a stupid question but how many regular posters on here are of the Jewish faith?
I have supported Spurs for many years and in my experience I have met more Jews who support Arsenal. Also the chant of Yid army was in reply to certain clubs fans using hissing sounds supposedly being the noise of gas chambers in concentration camps. I first heard it at an away match when I was around 10 years old. The same club still has one of the most odious racial set of fans IMHO. Older posters on here who were around when hooliganism was at its height will know which club I am referring to. The Yid chant is a remnant from those days
 
Don’t see what the issue is, its not meant in a derogatory way if anything its the complete opposite.
 
spurspinter1 said:
For arguments sake are you then happy with white people using the N word as long as it's in a friendly way?
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The N word is used to insult a person due to the colour of their skin which imo is a lot worse. Yid is used to insult a religion which doesn’t single out a specific race. Tottenham fans use the word in a positive light and it represents all Spurs fans regardless of skin colour, shouting the N word out would still only be aimed towards 1 race regardless of if its meant in a positive way or not. So its a completely different situation altogether.
 
Yiddo said:
The N word is used to insult a person due to the colour of their skin which imo is a lot worse. Yid is used to insult a religion which doesn’t single out a specific race. Tottenham fans use the word in a positive light and it represents all Spurs fans regardless of skin colour, shouting the N word out would still only be aimed towards 1 race regardless of if its meant in a positive way or not. So its a completely different situation altogether.
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If we go down the term jew being both a religion and a race then you're not quite right on this one.

Also the N word is more than an just an insult and like any word, as well as it's background / etymology context + intonation is hugely important. Additionally, the term is used in a derogatory way towards a number of different races also, take the usage against Arab people being called sand-n words. I hope I'm not being patronizing I say in my opinion you've oversimplified the usage of the word.

Hypothetically let's say we had a club in a predominantly white country who historically had a lot of black supporters, if the white supporters then appropriated derogatory racial terms as a badge of honour using it in their songs because of an affinity with the ethnic minorities, it would be from the right place with good intentions but still not necessarily appropriate to use. It's a different situation as you say but there are parallels that are worth exploring, even if you chose to dismiss it out of hand.

I'm not saying we definitely should or shouldn't sing yid, I don't know enough about how the word is perceived in Jewish culture but there's noise about it for a reason. It's from the right place, I've never heard a Spurs fan use it as a pejorative and that is huge but still doesn't seem enough if people find sincerely the word distasteful.

It's a throwaway point but we already don't have enough songs even with dipping in to the back catalogue of Robbie Williams and Southampton but I am uneasy about causing genuine offense even if unintentionally....
 
I find it notable/strange that on this site people say "the Y-word" or "the N-word" while there's liberal use of the most offensive swearing without such shielding.
Some, of course, find the swearwords far less offensive. For myself, it's the other way round.

I suppose there's the filter which can be applied to the filthy obscenities, does it also apply to the racially-charged words?
 
JerusalemMan said:
I find it notable/strange that on this site people say "the Y-word" or "the N-word" while there's liberal use of the most offensive swearing without such shielding.
Some, of course, find the swearwords far less offensive. For myself, it's the other way round.

I suppose there's the filter which can be applied to the filthy obscenities, does it also apply to the racially-charged words?
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Surely that comes down to words are nothing until context/intent is added. Ultimately, offence is taken. Sometimes that's taken with intent being delivered, other times there is no intent given.
Tosser is a swear word. It might be extremely offensive to you. But why? It's not offensive when used in the context of the highland games. It may be offensive if someone still considers masturbation offensive. If it's delivered with vitriol, it's offensive.

Now of course the Y and N words are shaped by their historical context. However, context still comes into it. Rappers and Grime artists using the N word (including people that not black and/or of Afro-American heritage). It has been an attempt to reclaim the word. And I very deliberately use "reclaim". The n-word dates back to the 16th century, and used in a neutral way. It was developed by badly intentioned actors and used with vitriol to oppress. The word isnt the issue, the actions of the user are.
 
To be honest i think there are some who get offended by everything under the sun. Of course racism is awful and i have no time for those who may practise it ( whatever race they are from). It just seems to me that in todays world there are those who see racism behind EVERY door.

I dare say there are some who will be offended by what i think.
 
JerusalemMan said:
I find it notable/strange that on this site people say "the Y-word" or "the N-word" while there's liberal use of the most offensive swearing without such shielding.
Some, of course, find the swearwords far less offensive. For myself, it's the other way round.

I suppose there's the filter which can be applied to the filthy obscenities, does it also apply to the racially-charged words?
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And the Y word isn't anywhere near the same as the N word. I find it mad that people still make that equivalence
 
We
parklane1 said:
To be honest i think there are some who get offended by everything under the sun. Of course racism is awful and i have no time for those who may practise it ( whatever race they are from). It just seems to me that in todays world there are those who see racism behind EVERY door.

I dare say there are some who will be offended by what i think.
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It's a tough balance, there is clearly unacceptable behaviour by too many people in the world that needs to be called out, but we have to also understand not saying something isn't solving a problem.

To the OP point, some thoughts

- Spurs uses Yid in a positive way, always have, there is no interpretation of the Spurs use of the word that is offensive
- The piece that people miss is it's a very contained usage, typically in stadium in a particular context (supporting a player or the team). The true test of if something is being used offensively is understanding the context, the fact that Spurs use is so limited makes the interpretation quite clear
- When we can, we should try to take power away from words, not give it more. By having a positive angle it diminishes the negative use.

It's a core part of Spurs identity at this stage, it's not a simplistic ask to say "stop saying that word"
 
I remember sitting in a packed Spurs bar in mid-town Toronto for a Champions League tie against AC Milan. Crouch scores and the place goes wild. One leather lunged fan sticks his arm up in the air and begins bellowing "Yid arrrrmy, Yid arrrmy!"

Not a soul joined in. No one. Many just looked at him and he quickly became uncomfortable and stopped.

Using that word just doesn't work in other parts of the world. Spurs have an international following. Toronto has its fair share of Jews. That word in Canada is regarded as an insult. Probably like that in many other cities elsewhere.

I try to be very broad minded. I was raised in Ulster as an Orthodox Protestant - Presbyterian - but have been married for 34 years to a French-Canadian Catholic. My siblings have also married Catholics. I have absolutely no belief that religion-based chants are productive or help grow our popularity, in the way that Liverpool benefit from their fans songs and chants. Many fans from elsewhere want to visit Liverpool just to experience the singing of You'll Never Walk Alone. Not likely the same sentiment is being directed toward hearing Being A Yid.

But there is one defensible use of Yid - if we're being provoked in or around the stadium on game day by anti-Semitic chants, hisses or songs. But we shouldn't be initiating the use of it on our own. Otherwise, we look as small as those two idiot sectarian fan bases in Glasgow. I'm sure there's other cultural divides within other cities between two - or more - clubs.

Fans of other clubs are largely capable of disliking Spurs without holding anti-Semitic sentiments. Big Rich Londoners, southern softies, fancy Dans are more than enough to work with. But when our away support shows up and begins bellowing their religious based chants and songs without provocation, people there roll their eyes in exasperation. It's like we're deliberately trying to annoy them with sectarian proselytizing. No one gets worked up about When The Spurs Go Marching In or Come On You Spurs - nice, simple, neutral expressions.
 
Grays_1890 said:
And the Y word isn't anywhere near the same as the N word. I find it mad that people still make that equivalence
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I'm not really able to be a judge of either word's severity, it's obviously down to the individual but particularly those it has been used as an insult towards. They are of a similar theme in terms of words that can be / have been used as racial slurs. It's not an equivalence but a comparison , the fact that you've chosen to self sensor both words indicates there's a similarity in calibre.

This isn't just you but a few posters really aren't in to analogies as a means of exploring a subject, they just take a warped ott summary which was never part of the example, I find it mighty odd, nobody has said the words are the same on here but I appreciate you may mean in real life.
 
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