Is it all that bad? (im quite excited for 2014/2015

[harr1984]

We've got nothing to lose. This season we'll finish 7th, which is realistically the lowest we can fall (the bottom 13 are well behind the top group). So it's everything to gain.

I disagree we have a lot of crud - I think a lot of people will be surprised how good the likes of Paulinho, Chadli, Soldado and Lamela will be in an organised system and with a top manager. Rose is about the only player in our squad who I don't rate at all.

I also disagree about building the team around Eriksen. Our last strong team was built around four players - King, Modric, vdV and Bale. If you have one player, it's easy to tactically or financially take them out of the game. I'd like to see our side for the next 3-4 years built around Verts, Sandro, Claise, Eriksen and maybe Lamela.

Absolutely! Everyone of our signings have demonstrated their quality, if only in patches for the most part. I have no doubt those who stay will be big players next year....

 

[braineclipse]

Ditto with Dodo - he's old teammate from Roma. I suppose in terms of Spanish speakers, we do already have Soldado.


I don't like Umtiti myself - I think he's a bit clumsy/poor on the ball. Power over finesse is not what he really need at the moment considering the balance of our squad.

I haven't seen Umitit other than the games against us and other than the goal I didn't think he stood out.

In general I think the full back position is becoming more and more specialized. Examples of players that could play both as centre backs and full backs and went on to become properly good full backs post Maldini seem few and far apart to me. I suppose Ivanovich is one, but he's certainly not clumsy.

We shouldn't buy anyone who could be described as clumsy in my opinion, regardless of position.

 

[indianspur]

I haven't seen Umitit other than the games against us and other than the goal I didn't think he stood out.

In general I think the full back position is becoming more and more specialized. Examples of players that could play both as centre backs and full backs and went on to become properly good full backs post Maldini seem few and far apart to me. I suppose Ivanovich is one, but he's certainly not clumsy.

We shouldn't buy anyone who could be described as clumsy in my opinion, regardless of position.

i think Kyle walker started as a centre back.....with regards to specialization, how about wide attacking players who convert into full backs??

 

[Gutter Boy]

i think Kyle walker started as a centre back.....with regards to specialization, how about wide attacking players who convert into full backs??

No - Kyle Walker was a forward all through youth football.

The CB thing comes because he once played part of a game there for England U20s in some match that was televised.

It depends on your system, but most FBs these days are closer to wide midfielders than they are CBs. I thought Corluka was a fantastic player, but he was about the last of the CB-esque FBs and it was ultimately his downfall.

 

[braineclipse]

i think Kyle walker started as a centre back.....with regards to specialization, how about wide attacking players who convert into full backs??

I was under the impression he started as a more attacking player? Either was it wasn't like he was playing regularly as a centre back at a fairly high level was it, more a young development/squad thing?

Wingers and wide players converting to full backs makes a lot more sense to me. Modern full backs are asked to do a lot of attacking, being a good crosser can be super helpful. I think there's a lot more overlap between the roles of wingers and full backs compared to central defenders and full backs. Particularly when talking about the attacking responsibilities, but to some extent also defensively.

Centre backs also being played as full backs (or vice versa) tend to be more Kaboul, Bassong, Lescott, Smalling type players. And, as far as I can see, rarely end up being great full backs.

Just a general observation on my side though, I might very easily be wrong...

 

[Gutter Boy]

I was under the impression he started as a more attacking player? Either was it wasn't like he was playing regularly as a centre back at a fairly high level was it, more a young development/squad thing?

Wingers and wide players converting to full backs makes a lot more sense to me. Modern full backs are asked to do a lot of attacking, being a good crosser can be super helpful. I think there's a lot more overlap between the roles of wingers and full backs compared to central defenders and full backs. Particularly when talking about the attacking responsibilities, but to some extent also defensively.

Centre backs also being played as full backs (or vice versa) tend to be more Kaboul, Bassong, Lescott, Smalling type players. And, as far as I can see, rarely end up being great full backs.

Just a general observation on my side though, I might very easily be wrong...

Most young CBs have to breakthrough at FB, because it is a less demanding role in terms of positioning and organising, and other things only gained from experience. Raw defenders tend to start wide and migrate into the middle. This happened with King and Campbell IIRC, as well as these you list here.

I think part of why Verts gets upset about playing LB is because he sees it as a demotion to a junior position.

 

[Cochise]

I'll get excited once I know we have a decent coach

 

[indianspur]

Most young CBs have to breakthrough at FB, because it is a less demanding role in terms of positioning and organising, and other things only gained from experience. Raw defenders tend to start wide and migrate into the middle. This happened with King and Campbell IIRC, as well as these you list here.

I think part of why Verts gets upset about playing LB is because he sees it as a demotion to a junior position.

its a lot more physically demanding too

 

[braineclipse]

Most young CBs have to breakthrough at FB, because it is a less demanding role in terms of positioning and organising, and other things only gained from experience. Raw defenders tend to start wide and migrate into the middle. This happened with King and Campbell IIRC, as well as these you list here.

I think part of why Verts gets upset about playing LB is because he sees it as a demotion to a junior position.

I agree with your first point and I think it's fairly natural.

Quite possibly you're right about Vertonghen too, although it could also just be that he thinks he has the qualities to be either a top class centre back or a good full back and he wants to become a top class centre back. I think with some of the full backs we've seen in the last decade or so the idea that full back is a "junior position" or that it's a place where you can just stick someone to do a job is flawed, at least to a large extent.

 

[Gutter Boy]

its a lot more physically demanding too

True. But the mental demand trade-off is quite significant. I play both positions and can definitely coast through games a lot more at FB.

 

[Libero]

True. But the mental demand trade-off is quite significant. I play both positions and can definitely coast through games a lot more at FB.

Depends on what your opponent is like. I agree that on a mental level you are if possible, slightly more alert/switched on at all times at CB but if you are playing against decent wide players or your left winger/midfielder isn't helping you out then it is mentally tough for a FB. Also, as a FB you are also looking to come in and sweep behind CBs quite alot of the time as well.

 

[Spur of the moment]

It's definitely not all that bad and we have a lot to be excited about BUT a LB and striker is not enough to get us to where we want to be. If we don't bring in a playmaker we will be well and truly screwed again for another season imo.

Preferably someone with plenty of experience in both PL and CL.

Cheeky bid for that visionary CM who's been pulling the strings for Hull?