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Injuries

billyiddo said:
The person who has most sway over the players physical condition is and always will be the manager, he's the one in charge of them in game and he's the one in charge of them and the coaching/fitness team at the training center (either directly or indirectly) a massive injury list will always put eyes on him as a result, regardless of results on the pitch. No one knows for certain of course but it's a little bit more than blind guesswork. Especially when he has a reputation for bringing about a high number of injuries throughout his career and has commented saying it's just how it is as players adapt.
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You won't find me arguing that Ange and his team should and apparently are looking at why they are consistently getting so many injuries. But it's getting a bit ridiculous going into specific players saying what if we had done this, why did we do that when we don't have a clue about the data Ange is being fed. Can question his methods in general for sure as I don't believe can be a coincidence getting this many injuries consistently but at the same time every time a player gets injured trying to put it on Ange is OTT....
 
billyiddo said:
The person who has most sway over the players physical condition is and always will be the manager, he's the one in charge of them in game and he's the one in charge of them and the coaching/fitness team at the training center (either directly or indirectly) a massive injury list will always put eyes on him as a result, regardless of results on the pitch. No one knows for certain of course but it's a little bit more than blind guesswork. Especially when he has a reputation for bringing about a high number of injuries throughout his career and has commented saying it's just how it is as players adapt.
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Yeh, look I don't know, no one knows but we can't have an injury list this long and it not be a topic of discussion at least. I don't do many podcasts per say, if I do its this forums or ex sporting stars talking about their time in their sport, whats a clear theme through them all is the pressures and therefore decisions that are made under those pressures which makes managers make decisions that sometimes come back to bite. Thats why there are injections and masking agents used in sport, some prefer to play their strongest side with them rather than play an alternative. The Romero and MVDV situation with Chelsea looked (not saying it was before people start pogo'ing) a roll of the dice which backfired. As I said in another thread, I don't think playing Solanke second half v West Ham, Villa and esp Southampton made any sense and we would have lost little at least using Lanks as a saver for him (even if he isn't ready). But thats just my view.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Yeh, look I don't know, no one knows but we can't have an injury list this long and it not be a topic of discussion at least. I don't do many podcasts per say, if I do its this forums or ex sporting stars talking about their time in their sport, whats a clear theme through them all is the pressures and therefore decisions that are made under those pressures which makes managers make decisions that sometimes come back to bite. Thats why there are injections and masking agents used in sport, some prefer to play their strongest side with them rather than play an alternative. The Romero and MVDV situation with Chelsea looked (not saying it was before people start pogo'ing) a roll of the dice which backfired. As I said in another thread, I don't think playing Solanke second half v West Ham, Villa and esp Southampton made any sense and we would have lost little at least using Lanks as a saver for him (even if he isn't ready). But thats just my view.
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I definitely think that's fair.

Been reported both changes in personell, possibly because of disagreements, an internal review and now Ange saying both about Richarlison and Romero that he doesn't want to rush them back or similar.

For sure not all has been handled perfectly.
 
braineclipse said:
I definitely think that's fair.

Been reported both changes in personell, possibly because of disagreements, an internal review and now Ange saying both about Richarlison and Romero that he doesn't want to rush them back or similar.

For sure not all has been handled perfectly.
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I think the disagreement side is key, physios and Drs present the case to the managers and then in some instances where there is an option of risk the manager takes it. Jose was notorious for pressuring players at clubs to take injections and play through injured. So it happens for sure.

Players are rarely 100% fit but I do think some managers take liberties with their health to benefit their own circumstances
 
Chrissivad said:
Was hoping a week max, but no point rushing him back too soon again...

So VDV hopefully back between Romero and Udogie, in terms of being fit, and on the pitch.
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Can only hope the issues for Bissouma, Sarr and Johnson are minor. Have not seen anything on them so far?

13 fit and available for tonight according to Ange. Not including Spence or Kinsky who aren't registered. Guessing it includes Forster and Austin.

If we can avoid new injuries for a couple of games, the issues for those above are minor and Romero returns as planned we could have something resembling a match day squad in the not too distant future. Then adding VdV and Udogie.
 
braineclipse said:
Can only hope the issues for Bissouma, Sarr and Johnson are minor. Have not seen anything on them so far?

13 fit and available for tonight according to Ange. Not including Spence or Kinsky who aren't registered. Guessing it includes Forster and Austin.

If we can avoid new injuries for a couple of games, the issues for those above are minor and Romero returns as planned we could have something resembling a match day squad in the not too distant future. Then adding VdV and Udogie.
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And Reguilon
It would be nice to have something resembling a squad at some point.

See if Ange manages it better this time.
 
Surely we've de-registered Forster and put Kinsky in already?

Or how does it work for these January european games (with the window open), which have never existed before?
 
Grays_1890 said:
I think the disagreement side is key, physios and Drs present the case to the managers and then in some instances where there is an option of risk the manager takes it. Jose was notorious for pressuring players at clubs to take injections and play through injured. So it happens for sure.

Players are rarely 100% fit but I do think some managers take liberties with their health to benefit their own circumstances
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This relates to what I was saying yesterday about the different roles. At one end of the spectrum your have the very medically qualified person on staff i.e. the club doctor. At the other end you have 1st team manager. We think like "team Ange" has the players until they break then "team Doc" fixes them and hands them back. In the real world at this high level, there is surely total integration. Somewhere in the middle there are fitness coaches that have a great knowledge of the body's physiology, and condition players for the manager on individual plans. The can work both directions.

I watched that video of Sarr yesterday. Just with the naked eye, if that had been pre-season, I would have been all for the fitness coaches drawing every last bit out to get him fitter. They weren't even trying to do that but Sarr looked that way in his body language. He couldn't raise a 3/4 sprint and he was last man to every station for the next drill. For me, that fitness coach could be pulling him out of that session in the middle of January in a crisis. Instead he gets a bib for the next part. As I've already said, the body language of the player was all wrong. Even Richi was checking in on him.

It's really hard to know whether these guys are getting the right training for what is needed right now. There is no smoke without fire.
 
Muttley said:
This relates to what I was saying yesterday about the different roles. At one end of the spectrum your have the very medically qualified person on staff i.e. the club doctor. At the other end you have 1st team manager. We think like "team Ange" has the players until they break then "team Doc" fixes them and hands them back. In the real world at this high level, there is surely total integration. Somewhere in the middle there are fitness coaches that have a great knowledge of the body's physiology, and condition players for the manager on individual plans. The can work both directions.

I watched that video of Sarr yesterday. Just with the naked eye, if that had been pre-season, I would have been all for the fitness coaches drawing every last bit out to get him fitter. They weren't even trying to do that but Sarr looked that way in his body language. He couldn't raise a 3/4 sprint and he was last man to every station for the next drill. For me, that fitness coach could be pulling him out of that session in the middle of January in a crisis. Instead he gets a bib for the next part. As I've already said, the body language of the player was all wrong. Even Richi was checking in on him.

It's really hard to know whether these guys are getting the right training for what is needed right now. There is no smoke without fire.
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Also was it not in the All or Nothing Doc where the physios told Jose that certain players were not available and he berated them, I found that telling for many reasons
 
Grays_1890 said:
Also was it not in the All or Nothing Doc where the physios told Jose that certain players were not available and he berated them, I found that telling for many reasons
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Yeah, same here.

I might have read the Chelsea situation wrong but Jose's famous exchange and relationship with Dr Eva Carneiro had some real implied nastiness. It seemed to be the primary reason that Jose lost the dressing room and his job, much to the benefit of Conte's CV.

That amazing lady got a huge settlement from the club, and from memory I believe invested into her own club a few years back.
 
Muttley said:
Yeah, same here

I might have read the Chelsea situation wrong but Jose's famous exchange and relationship with Dr Eva Carneiro had some real implied nastiness. It seemed to be the primary reason that Jose lost the dressing room and his job, much to the benefit of Conte's CV.

That amazing lady got a huge settlement from the club, and from memory I believe invested into her own club a few years back.
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Yeh that was toxic for many reasons.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Also was it not in the All or Nothing Doc where the physios told Jose that certain players were not available and he berated them, I found that telling for many reasons
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conte was negative about the physios too and he had to bring in his own fitness coach
 
metalgear said:
conte was negative about the physios too and he had to bring in his own fitness coach
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I think partly because they want positive vindication from those around him. Independent experts like say "not fit", bloke who follows Conte from job to job tells him what he wants to hear.
 
braineclipse said:
Can only hope the issues for Bissouma, Sarr and Johnson are minor. Have not seen anything on them so far?

13 fit and available for tonight according to Ange. Not including Spence or Kinsky who aren't registered. Guessing it includes Forster and Austin.

If we can avoid new injuries for a couple of games, the issues for those above are minor and Romero returns as planned we could have something resembling a match day squad in the not too distant future. Then adding VdV and Udogie.
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I have just seen a post quoting Johnson is out for 3 weeks and Solanke out until early March

Ridiculous? Its gone beyond ridiculous. I have now lost count of the total players unavailable, surely well into doube figures

At what point can a club (if it wants to) request a match cancellation due to lack of available senior players?
 
paxtonwolf said:
I have just seen a post quoting Johnson is out for 3 weeks and Solanke out until early March

Ridiculous? Its gone beyond ridiculous. I have now lost count of the total players unavailable, surely well into doube figures

At what point can a club (if it wants to) request a match cancellation due to lack of available senior players?
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We all know the answer to this question…

If one player has a minor sniffle, you loan a couple more out and then start getting games called off due to your depleted squad.
 
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