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Independence...

Richie said:
That's simply not true. What could Scotland possibly offer to get the Spanish to allow them EU membership?
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Spain have no reason not to admit an independent Scotland and have admitted that the Scots have every right to seek independence.

Spain's position is that all states must ratify a new countries entry to the EU. This is a warning to Catalonia, who are seeking independence from Spain.
 
johnola said:
Spain have no reason not to admit an independent Scotland and have admitted that the Scots have every right to seek independence.

Spain's position is that all states must ratify a new countries entry to the EU. This is a warning to Catalonia, who are seeking independence from Spain.
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In which case, I suspect Scotland being ratified would cost them a large chunk of North Sea oil and a very large share of the national debt.
 
They are going to have to eat there share of the **** pie no matter what.

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I think they have already lost the debate. I'm expecting a landslide in favour of staying in the union.
 
Momentum is definately with the 'yes' vote. I always thought there was a good chance of a massive swing in their favour because there was a large 'undecided' camp and to me 'undecided' are people who want to vote 'yes' but are scared about doing so.

I think we might be seeing the last days of old Britain. Good thing too if you ask me. Britain was a country created out of a non-democratic process to keep the power with the gentry and land owners of this country and save many of them from going bankrupt.

It's also a concept that holds the countries that make it up back, as we still think we're an imperial super-power and look back to the past all the time.
 
NWND said:
Momentum is definately with the 'yes' vote. I always thought there was a good chance of a massive swing in their favour because there was a large 'undecided' camp and to me 'undecided' are people who want to vote 'yes' but are scared about doing so.

I think we might be seeing the last days of old Britain. Good thing too if you ask me. Britain was a country created out of a non-democratic process to keep the power with the gentry and land owners of this country and save many of them from going bankrupt.

It's also a concept that holds the countries that make it up back, as we still think we're an imperial super-power and look back to the past all the time.
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That's a brilliant post mate =D>

To be honest the break up of the UK is a bit bloody sad, IF it happens.

This will be a major wake up call to the whole of Britain, who's next...Wales ?

If it does happen and fails, which I doubt, then the blame will be on our own shoulders and left to deal with it.

They'll be no coming back, that's for sure.
 
danish-ardiles said:
I just hope that Shetland islands will be given back to Denmark or Norway, it's been long overdue ;)
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I hope that Scotland takes the North East and Wales take Liverpool. Then they can have all the independence they want.

Although we may have to build a wall along the border when they drown under the weight of their share of the national debt.
 
Stupid question (I haven't been following this as much as I should) but why would the rest of Britain be concerned about Scotland gaining independence? It is just a tradition, reputation, historic thing? or are there more practical reasons?

I mean why would the government etc be campaigning so hard to make them stay?
 
dingdongo said:
Stupid question (I haven't been following this as much as I should) but why would the rest of Britain be concerned about Scotland gaining independence? It is just a tradition, reputation, historic thing? or are there more practical reasons?

I mean why would the government etc be campaigning so hard to make them stay?
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It's gives us a little more international status, being part of a larger whole - much like our influence with the US is boosted by ties with the EU.

There's a "duty of care" element to it. The rest of the UK knows that Scotland's share of the international debt would see rocketing interest rates without the security of Sterling backing it. Any of those who went into politics because they cared and still do wouldn't want that to happen to a large chunk of the nation.

Much of the rest of the UK would end up shouldering the cost anyway. It's not like the border is difficult to cross - when their economy fails we'll end up with the homeless, the jobless, etc.

And finally there's an element of fair play to it. Whilst it's been beneficial to the Conservative party for decades to not have a left-leaning Scottish vote, it's just not the done thing to sit by and allow it to happen.
 
dingdongo said:
Stupid question (I haven't been following this as much as I should) but why would the rest of Britain be concerned about Scotland gaining independence? It is just a tradition, reputation, historic thing? or are there more practical reasons?

I mean why would the government etc be campaigning so hard to make them stay?
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I think for some it will be 'reputationally damaging' (I.e. Cameron being the PM who oversaw the break-up of the UK), regardless of if you want it to happen or not.
I think some will not want it due to tradition and a sense of being 'British' before Scottish/English/Welsh etc
I think for most it's the concern at a massive upheaval just as we're starting to see growth again coming out of a recession.
 
If the Scots do leave, Labour will have to merge with the Lib dems. The political landscape could be very different in a few weeks time. Quite interesting really.
 
galeforce said:
i'm not sure it will, isn't Scotland only 8% of the total UK vote or something?
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41 of Labour's seats are up there, they'd find it very difficult indeed to form another government - at least one with any kind of majority.

If the Conservatives perform terribly then they could get past the post, but in all likelihood they'd need a really big help from the Lib Dems currently.
 
galeforce said:
i'm not sure it will, isn't Scotland only 8% of the total UK vote or something?
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You should if you have time see the figures for who voted for who in Scotland at the last election.

The tories have only 1 MP up there I think but if you look at the actual number of people who voted SNP and then look at the amount who voted tory I think you would be very suprised that for a party that apparently is so hated up there quite a lot of people voted for them.

I do not have the figures to hand I just keep popping inside as working in the garden is hard work in this heat and our new garden looks an absolute mess.
 
Ok I can not remember the exact figures or find them but the SNP I remember reading got something like 250,000 votes and the tories were on something like 110,000. Clearly not close but not as bad as is often made out.

These figures are not exact as I can not find them at the moment but I remember reading them and thinking wow, because I had always assumed no one in Scotland would ever vote tory.
 
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