I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

[SpurMeUp]

The people who defend him use his assist stats. I'm expressing my opinion that when he plays were a worse team.

If people want to use stats then we need a comparison And ideally that's should be a like for like

It's why I said tasic. He had played roughly the same amount of games and has performed significantly better.

Its not stats - as his stats are not all that great. Its watching him play and weighing up the alternatives. Had Soldado slotted home his shot, instead of hit it over the bar, which came from Lamela's run, would you be saying the same thing I wonder?

I agree he's frustrating, loses the ball and defensively he's been dreadful, but never the less he's a better player than the alternatives, and with the right setup he will come on. He's 22 years old. What were you doing at that age?

 

[monkeybarry]

I believe we are playing him in the wrong position
If you look at his Roma days , he was most effective in a support striker type role.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Its not stats - as his stats are not all that great. Its watching him play and weighing up the alternatives. Had Soldado slotted home his shot, instead of hit it over the bar, which came from Lamela's run, would you be saying the same thing I wonder?

I agree he's frustrating, loses the ball and defensively he's been dreadful, but never the less he's a better player than the alternatives, and with the right setup he will come on. He's 22 years old. What were you doing at that age?

He is a full international for a top aide and there have been younger players perform better

At his age I wasnt a professional footballer getting £50k a week or more.

 

[SpurMeUp]

He is a full international for a top aide and there have been younger players perform better

At his age I wasnt a professional footballer getting £50k a week or more.

Most people are not at their peek at 22. The money is his biggest burden. Had he come through the youth team I think we'd all be behind him. But the pressure to be that player, when he is just another talented 22 year old in reality, is a lot. Look at your comments. He knows the expectation on him. Which is possibly why he tries to force things too much and loses the ball. We need to give him time. In the mean time he's still creating chances - at least two first half yesterday - and he will develop. He will likely never be Suarez or Bale's level, but what percentage of pro footballers are? 1 out of a 1000? 1 out of a million?

 

[ALtottenham_hotspur]

I believe we are playing him in the wrong position
If you look at his Roma days , he was most effective in a support striker type role.

I have been thinking that for months! Against Chelsea the other night he looked good playing behind Kane.

I would start him in turkey behind Soldado, lennon on the right, Chadli on the left

 

[braineclipse]

The people who defend him use his assist stats. I'm expressing my opinion that when he plays were a worse team.

If people want to use stats then we need a comparison And ideally that's should be a like for like

It's why I said tasic. He had played roughly the same amount of games and has performed significantly better.

What has his assist stat been used to defend/argue in support of?

I don't think we're worse as a team with him, but I don't think a simple stat can show that either way.

I agree that isn't our standard game plan, but when that is the only person available to play at right back we should be capable of adjusting accordingly, especially when it is clear how impotent we look down that side of the pitch.

I'm afraid I'm not really a subscriber to the theory of a goal boosting his confidence and then more following. I think his confidence seems ok (he doesn't seem to be afraid of trying things - it's just that they hardly ever come off). You say Lamela obviously has a lot of flair and skill, but his performances haven't shown that.... I could say the same about Andros Townsend, but it doesn't mean he will be a good player for us either.

We are capable of adjusting accordingly. Lennon started against Everton and against Chelsea. He did well, but not great I thought.

I think confidence is huge in football, both for teams and individual players. Integral part of form imo.

 

[braineclipse]

He is a full international for a top aide and there have been younger players perform better

At his age I wasnt a professional footballer getting £50k a week or more.

Point being? Has anyone argued that there haven't been younger players perform better.

Why do you think he's a full international for Argentina, one of the nations in the world with the most attacking talent around? If he can somewhat consistently show for us what has earned him those national games in the first place he would be a huge asset for us. Seems well worth the effort to try to get that out of him.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Point being? Has anyone argued that there haven't been younger players perform better.

Why do you think he's a full international for Argentina, one of the nations in the world with the most attacking talent around? If he can somewhat consistently show for us what has earned him those national games in the first place he would be a huge asset for us. Seems well worth the effort to try to get that out of him.

My point is that you can't judge Lamella on what I was doing at his age which was what I responded too. It's a daft question

If he can actually start playing well then great but so far he hasn't and shows no signs of turning the corner IMO. Whilst he is struggling the team is suffering and our results are too which doesn't buy you more time... It gets you less.

Poch is better of playing the side that is most likely to get him results and that currently IMO doe not include Lamella starting

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Braineclipse the assist stat has been used by plenty to argue his value to the team on plenty of posts in this thread

 

[braineclipse]

My point is that you can't judge Lamella on what I was doing at his age which was what I responded too. It's a daft question

If he can actually start playing well then great but so far he hasn't and shows no signs of turning the corner IMO. Whilst he is struggling the team is suffering and our results are too which doesn't buy you more time... It gets you less.

Poch is better of playing the side that is most likely to get him results and that currently IMO doe not include Lamella starting

I responded to the part about there being younger players that have performed better than him...

You think if he wasn't playing the team and results would be just fine? I rarely see an improvement when he comes off. He was poor against Palace, but it's not like we were massively improved in the second half, arguably we were worse actually.

Braineclipse the assist stat has been used by plenty to argue his value to the team on plenty of posts in this thread

When I've seen it it's usually been in some kind of context. But yes, 4 assists obviously has some value.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I responded to the part about there being younger players that have performed better than him...

You think if he wasn't playing the team and results would be just fine? I rarely see an improvement when he comes off. He was poor against Palace, but it's not like we were massively improved in the second half, arguably we were worse actually.



When I've seen it it's usually been in some kind of context. But yes, 4 assists obviously has some value.

Then so does comparing him with other players?

IMO we look better when he doesn't start. We look more dynamic and have more penetration

 

[billyiddo]

how many games has he not started?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Most people are not at their peek at 22. The money is his biggest burden. Had he come through the youth team I think we'd all be behind him. But the pressure to be that player, when he is just another talented 22 year old in reality, is a lot. Look at your comments. He knows the expectation on him. Which is possibly why he tries to force things too much and loses the ball. We need to give him time. In the mean time he's still creating chances - at least two first half yesterday - and he will develop. He will likely never be Suarez or Bale's level, but what percentage of pro footballers are? 1 out of a 1000? 1 out of a million?

Did he create 2 chances yesterday? I don't remember him creating any?

 

[Finney Is Back]

What has his assist stat been used to defend/argue in support of?

I don't think we're worse as a team with him, but I don't think a simple stat can show that either way.



We are capable of adjusting accordingly. Lennon started against Everton and against Chelsea. He did well, but not great I thought.

I think confidence is huge in football, both for teams and individual players. Integral part of form imo.

In which case why was he dropped if he did well? Also it finally seemed as if the team played well against Everton, so why change the shape?

 

[braineclipse]

In which case why was he dropped if he did well? Also it finally seemed as if the team played well against Everton, so why change the shape?

I don't know. Perhaps Poch didn't feel it was a great idea to start him for the 3rd time in 6 days(and 4th time in 9 days) when we had other options available? Or perhaps he didn't expect Lennon to do particularly well against a team like Crystal Palace in a game that was likely going to be very different to the Everton and Chelsea games? Or perhaps he thought Lamela did well against Chelsea? Perhaps a combination?

Looking at Lennon's league starts this season they've come in the Everton and Chelsea games and the away game against West Ham. He hasn't been started at home against smaller teams where we expect to dominate possession and face a team defending deep not giving us chances to attack on the break. Game situations where Lennon traditionally struggles.

Again, Everton. We had 40% possession in that game, we had 60% against Palace. Completely different games against completely different opposition. What works against one might not work against another. Having watched Lennon for nearly 10 years, is it really so unthinkable that some game conditions suit him whilst others do not?

 

[Modric THFC]

My point is that you can't judge Lamella on what I was doing at his age which was what I responded too. It's a daft question

If he can actually start playing well then great but so far he hasn't and shows no signs of turning the corner IMO. Whilst he is struggling the team is suffering and our results are too which doesn't buy you more time... It gets you less.

Poch is better of playing the side that is most likely to get him results and that currently IMO doe not include Lamella starting

**** this season and **** the results. Changing the culture of the team is more important. If Levy doesnt recognise that we have no hope.

 

[the dza]

I don't know. Perhaps Poch didn't feel it was a great idea to start him for the 3rd time in 6 days(and 4th time in 9 days) when we had other options available? Or perhaps he didn't expect Lennon to do particularly well against a team like Crystal Palace in a game that was likely going to be very different to the Everton and Chelsea games? Or perhaps he thought Lamela did well against Chelsea? Perhaps a combination?

Looking at Lennon's league starts this season they've come in the Everton and Chelsea games and the away game against West Ham. He hasn't been started at home against smaller teams where we expect to dominate possession and face a team defending deep not giving us chances to attack on the break. Game situations where Lennon traditionally struggles.

Again, Everton. We had 40% possession in that game, we had 60% against Palace. Completely different games against completely different opposition. What works against one might not work against another. Having watched Lennon for nearly 10 years, is it really so unthinkable that some game conditions suit him whilst others do not?

Do you think Lennon at Rm with Dier at Rb is a better or worse combo than Lamela at Rm and Dier at Rb?

I think, with a slow right back that won't beat anybody and take the game to the opposition's by-line (as say, Jordi Alba, Dani Alves or Marcelo might do), then we are better served with a player like Lennon infront of them, who can do those things and offer the full-back natural defensive cover against fast opponents.

To be honest, with the players available, we could have done worse than use Lennon as a right-back with Lamela infront of him...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

**** this season and **** the results. Changing the culture of the team is more important. If Levy doesnt recognise that we have no hope.

Change the culture to what???? There is no evidence that were changing for the better so far

And we can't afford to write a season off due to the implications off the pitch as well as on it

As I've said a lot... We weren't that bad as proven with the results under Sherwood. Surely if we had a better coach than him with the same players we would be able to get at least similar results, especially and the new players have been a here over a year now. Is that not realistic????

 

[glorygloryeze]

Change the culture to what???? There is no evidence that were changing for the better so far

And we can't afford to write a season off due to the implications off the pitch as well as on it

As I've said a lot... We weren't that bad as proven with the results under Sherwood. Surely if we had a better coach than him with the same players we would be able to get at least similar results, especially and the new players have been a here over a year now. Is that not realistic????

Culture: one perhaps where the players are ultimately more on trial than the manager (as it mostly should be) and don't feel they call the shots and can go above the manager's head to Levy's office/the board

Writing off a season: we're not in the relegation zone. Once that happens then we can talk about implications..

Wait until the end of the season to compare with Sherwood imo....some managers take a while to get their systems/method going. At this stage of Rodgers first season many Pool fans were wondering if he was not as good as Dalglish...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Culture: one perhaps where the players are ultimately more on trial than the manager (as it mostly should be) and don't feel they call the shots and can go above the manager's head to Levy's office/the board

Writing off a season: we're not in the relegation zone. Once that happens then we can talk about implications..

Wait until the end of the season to compare with Sherwood imo....some managers take a while to get their systems/method going. At this stage of Rodgers first season many Pool fans were wondering if he was not as good as Dalglish...

I'm all for the players taking accountability but do you honestly think Levy would listen to any of the players anyway??!?!?!? Most of them are barley eloquent with the few words they say In match interviews

We cannot afford to drop our profile across any market because of the investment needed for the ground IMO. We can't go to investors and say buy into the project.... Our attendance are quickly reducing and were no longer competing at the lowest level in Europe but hey were a great investment.

One thing is for certain that with the dire football were seeing fans are stopping going to WHL. That then means less gate receipts which nuts the club in the pocket too but again would scare off some potential investors

It may all be semantics and we may have the money lined up but if I was AIA fro isn't ace I'd have clauses in the contract related to league position and European exposure