I
indianspur
Guest
but what he did before more than makes up for the current downturn...he was unplayable
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Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath
- Thread starter mick cooper
- Start date
but what he did before more than makes up for the current downturn...he was unplayable
tynesidespur
Terry Yorath
Very much reminiscent of Souness when he arrived at Liverpool 20 years ago and disassembled the all-conquering Liverpool side of the 80s. Instead of doing it in phases he did it immediately which was a huge mistake.
@ Dubai
I think we both agree that changing is not the problem. What you dont seem to agree with, is that AVB was too naive and stubborn to play use his squad to the best of their ability.
The fact that he wasnt given time to build is a whole other issue. He had what he had at his disposal, and he turned them to into a mess.
I think we both agree that changing is not the problem. What you dont seem to agree with, is that AVB was too naive and stubborn to play use his squad to the best of their ability.
The fact that he wasnt given time to build is a whole other issue. He had what he had at his disposal, and he turned them to into a mess.
Was that the case?
I didnt realize....theres nothing wrong with being a visionary, but people are quick to dismiss AVBs failure at Chelsea as Terrys fault, and not his own. He didnt have the time, but he also didnt give the team any time to try and adapt to a new system.
There was no gradual shift. And if theres one thing Harry gets slated for, its not learning from your mistakes. But AVB is just a young pioneer for not learning from his?
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
That Redknapp stays. And football is a simple game. Scientific level. Give me strength.......
I would say that it is pretty close to the mark with AVB at Chelsea. I firmly belive he wasn't given enough time but he did come in and try and change a little too much too soon although it needed changing. I actually think the real problem aside from needing to clear out the bad apples and declining personalities was the fact that I think he felt he had to make an impression to prove he wasn't just Mourinho's lacky who got lucky in a weak league.
He would have known more than anyone how much power Terry, Lampard, Drogba et al wield in the dressing room and probably felt he had to go and show he was his own man. Right idea, just poor execution on his part really.
I think that he will go on and be a success somewhere else but he couldn't possibly come to Spurs right now. The pressure would be immense given what happened at Chelsea, the rivalry between the two sides and the possible ending to this season for us. All those things considered would make it such a tough job for him to take on when the press have all made their minds about him - too much of a risk imo.
Ancelotti is an interesting one. I believe it was an 18 or 30 month contract with PSG - financially it wouldn't be a big deal to get out of that contract I wouldn't have thought but might be wrong. He could also have had a clause in the contract allowing for a departure back to the Premiership considering he made it quite clear he wanted to stay in this country and league.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Yeah, I agree that change isn't the problem. Where we differ is that you seem to think he had to time for gradual change; I'd argue that he had none, and that quick change was the only option available to him.
Is he saying he enjoyed Chelsea under AVB more than Spurs under Harry?
But again, as proven by RDM (or JT
), it wasnt the only option.He could have played to his players strengths.
ArnieArdiles
Milenko Acimovic
As I understand it Harry has one more season in his contract ? If so and he doesn't get the England job , I'd pay him up the remainder of his contract regardless what we do now till the end of the season ..Anyone wanting Harry to stay must understand that Levy will have to re-new his contract ?
I'm done with him ...
I'd rather Levy makes Jose Mourhino an offer to make him the highest paid manager in the world and if that fails another manager with champions league experience if we've qualified that is ...
I also like the idea of Brenden Rodgers, he's another option with perhaps someone like former Barcelona sporting director Txiki Begiristain helping him to get us the players to fit into the system .
I'm done with him ...
I'd rather Levy makes Jose Mourhino an offer to make him the highest paid manager in the world and if that fails another manager with champions league experience if we've qualified that is ...
I also like the idea of Brenden Rodgers, he's another option with perhaps someone like former Barcelona sporting director Txiki Begiristain helping him to get us the players to fit into the system .
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
But again, as proven by RDM (or JT
He could have played to his players strengths.
But, like Libero mentioned above, he had to impress his own style and methods on players who were intensely sceptical of the chances of this former scout succeeding at the club, and he had to do it while under the instructions of Abramovich to deliver trophies and CL success to the club immediately. He had no time to implement a gradual, measured change.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
This collapse of form since the turn of the year is more or less what happened this time last year, Redknapp has not learnt anything in the last 12 months. I believe the King has called a meeting of players to discuss what is going wrong, you just know that come the end of the season and if we finish out of the top four Redknapp will have another excuse for his book of excuses.
"The players went behind my back"
"The players went behind my back"
Howard Webb
Clive Wilson
appendix a
i)the applicant must be able to perform a suitable rendition of Theres Just No Pleasing You by Chas and Dave, and it must be pleasing.
ii) recital of the spurs rules, such as 'the ball is round, it rolls along the ground' will be deemed sufficient according to a vote of two thirds majority in favour
iii) the applicant must agree that because Spurs invented the tradition of putting ribbons on trophies in 1901, the FA Cup will always be ours even when it appears that the colours have been changed; the colours are merely a temporary sign of ownership, and Spurs agrees to lease the trophy in good sporting fashion
iv) it is not acceptable to have managed Chelsea and it be a positive on the appplicants CV
v) fudge arsenal.
end of appendix A
i)the applicant must be able to perform a suitable rendition of Theres Just No Pleasing You by Chas and Dave, and it must be pleasing.
ii) recital of the spurs rules, such as 'the ball is round, it rolls along the ground' will be deemed sufficient according to a vote of two thirds majority in favour
iii) the applicant must agree that because Spurs invented the tradition of putting ribbons on trophies in 1901, the FA Cup will always be ours even when it appears that the colours have been changed; the colours are merely a temporary sign of ownership, and Spurs agrees to lease the trophy in good sporting fashion
iv) it is not acceptable to have managed Chelsea and it be a positive on the appplicants CV
v) fudge arsenal.
end of appendix A
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Lets wait and see, he does do excuses very well though.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Everyone loves Redknapp though, such a great manager with one trophy is 30 years, always ready with a witty quote, always wiling to admit to his mistakes, etc, etc.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
This place is gunna get ugly when Redknapp eventually leaves for the England job!
It'd take a really long post to sum up every single game we've played this season. The OP was excellent, but that mostly listed formations, we'd still be reading it if it went through our starting line up, what we were playing against, all tactical changes, the flow of the game and other information such as injuries and refereeing decisions.
Did we have those people? Or if you mean "recent tinkering" as "parking the bus against a side that park the bus and playing open as hell against another side that was open as hell", then those people are still here. But I don't think many people thought we played the same line up 25 times in a row and then changed everything when we started losing. The people that were posting in OMTs asking why the fudge Modric was playing on the wing in games were doing so in games that we were winning in the end. Anyone with any belief in what they are saying know Harry hasn't just started making tactical errors. If anyone thought he was a genius before and suddenly changed their minds because we were losing games, there is a clear sign that their logic is flawed.
No one thought that, VDV only plays on the wing in a 4-5-1, so unless people forgot VDV played for us, I'm not sure how they could think that. Alternatively, Defoe very rarely leads the line in a 4-4-1-1, he's not that type of striker, so unless people forgot he played (except against Emirates Marketing Project and Man United at OT), I don't see how they could see that either. So I would hope that most people remembered we played 4-4-2 sometimes, 4-4-1-1 sometimes and occasionally 4-5-1... But the personnel define the formation, a midfield 3 of Livermore, Parker and Sandro would play totally differently than a midfield 3 of VDV, Kranj and Gio Dos Santos (yes, all three of those are out of position, but we don't have many goal scoring midfielders that are totally offensively minded that will run into the opposition box).
I remember a bunch of OMT threads starting out with a 4-4-2 crowd and a 4-4-1-1 crowd both waiting to see what we were going to play. (I don't remember a big 4-5-1 crowd and I'm not even sure I can remember us playing 4-3-3.) But this season has been made up of VDV fans wanting him to get picked ahead of Saha/Pav, Defoe fans wanting him to get picked ahead of VDV, Sandro fans wanting him to get picked over Parker and so on. Depending on which players make up your best 11, you'll pick a different formation. Against certain teams, I remember people wanting Sandro in and so on... There was even a match that ended with us going 3-5-2 to glory, admittedly Harry tried to repeat it against Stevenage and started us like that and it didn't end well, but that was a formation some liked for certain times/teams.
I'm frustrated by Harry lately because his tactics have cost us rather than helping us. Usually he'll make everyone play with confidence and that makes up for him not being world class on the tactical front, he's supposedly world class on the motivational/confidence front with excellent skills in finding players to improve teams.
But when he hasn't filled the team with confidence and motivated them, I'm going to be disappointed if his tactics fudging suck. I couldn't motivate a dog to chase a cat, but I can see obvious flaws in the tactics he uses.
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We do praise players more, but I remember us praising Harry if he makes good subs or changes the formation and we turn things around.
He has about a 50% win rate with us, but yeah. For the record:
4th Tottenham Hotspur Played: 33 Won: 17 8 8
If he doesn't win the next league game (which he should), that won't technically be true.
"Has beaten a number of teams that are supposedly better than us along the way, including several away from home."
What?
This season? Man United lost twice, Emirates Marketing Project lost twice. Even the worst Arsenal team under Wenger a home win and an away loss.
They lost Fabregas and Nasri, there's no fudging way I'm even considering them having better players. No fudging way. That team has always been worth more than the sum of its parts, but even so, it's a fudging brick Arsenal team. Cheesy is a decent goalkeeper, but I'd take Friedel all day. Sanga is a good RB (although not exactly the best RB in the world), TV and Koswhatever are decent CBs although TV has had a bad season by his standards, Koswhatever has got a lot better though, Gibbs or Santos as left back is almost not even worth a comment... Gibbs is injury prone and brick. Santos is the Bosingwa of left backs, but his defending is even worse. Walcott can't pass, cross, dribble or control the ball, if he could shoot with his laces from outside the box he'd be a striker. Arteta was an Everton superstar just like Peanut, they're probably around the same level... He's a solid midfielder, I think he came through the Barca academy, he can shoot from range, pass, etc... But he doesn't compare to Modric. Song, he is a mystery. If he played for a different team, he'd be a box to box midfielder rather than a DM... He's good at passing, but isn't actually amazing at the defensive side of the game. He's solid though. Not a bad player at all, one of the few that can tackle in this Arsenal team, even if there are better DMs at it. Left wing should be the Ox as he's their second best attacking player but Wenger doesn't play him, so should this be Rosisky? Someone that's been like playing with 10 and a half men for years with the exception of the month around his new contract this year. 2 or 3 years without a goal until he scored against us.
Special mention to their injured midfield messiah, they don't actually look like they're going to need him, but that's not because their team has been amazing this season.
Striker RVP... It would have been easier if I'd started with him, he is the team.
There's no fudging way Arsenal, without even having a squad of players should be able to finish higher than our best team for over 50 years. Our win at WHL was not down to Harry's tactics, anyone that watched that game saw us get overrun in midfield and VDV scored a great goal after controlling the ball with his shoulder. If we'd have been unlucky and that was given handball because it was too close to the top of his arm, we wouldn't have won our home game. This was the players covering Harry's ass, not the other way around.
Chelsea, two draws. We parked the bus for one and were unlucky with an Ade onside goal that was declared offside. Howard Webb also ignored Cole's handball in build up to their goal (as well as a weaker handball shout by Chelsea in out box), the foul in the lead up to their goal was a flawless sliding tackle by Modric and both teams were lucky Howard Webb was using the "a word > final warning > yellow card > last warning > red card" system or we'd have both lost men.
I'm not complaining about Harry for that match, but I just want to point out that we couldn't beat a Chelsea team that's likely to finish 6th in the league this year (hardly better than us and not a win home or away).
Saudi Sportswashing Machine an away draw, not many people were happy with Harry's tactics here, but we were unlucky as they twice came back from a goal down. Saudi Sportswashing Machine home, this was a win....
So played 10
Won 2 (Arsenal and Saudi Sportswashing Machine at WHL)
Drawn 3 (Chelsea x 2 and Saudi Sportswashing Machine away)
Lost 5 (Arsenal away, Emirates Marketing Project x 2 and Man United x 2)
So again:
"Has beaten a number of teams that are supposedly better than us along the way, including several away from home."
What?
Unless you're talking about previous seasons or something?
" Can't be all that bad at tactics then."
Yes, he can. I'm not saying a 3 year old has a better grasp of tactics, but Harry's style of management is confidence based. That's why we were beating the weaker teams. Harry gets the most out of his players. If he can make the players all play near their best, his lack of tactical genius isn't highlighted on a weekly basis. For example, if the players had been playing as well as they can and we'd have won against Norwich, this place wouldn't have gone into meltdown.
For all my nitpicking, I do agree with the point you were trying to get across though.
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Elltrev 2nd very good post. When Harry goes to England, you're going to be in danger of getting the Spurs job at this rate.
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I completely agree with this too.