Grealish

[r-u-s-x]

I didn't see him much last year. I did see a fair bit of him when he was an attacking midfielder with some dribbling skills and no end product.

I think it's rare now to see a player pass by the scouting network as it is. There's so much information readily available that no matter what the circumstances, I see a talented player getting to that age and not having been picked up as a concern. Especially when that player is behind the curve of our own.

He never passed the scouting network though plenty were linked to him he showed no desire to leave, if he did perhaps a bid would have gone in. It was always expensive to buy from Villa if they do not want to sell and either the players ran down their contracts or the fees were high.

I know its Tim but these were the messages coming out of the club - https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/sherwood-i-wouldnt-sell-grealish-ps60m at a lower level its similar to why the huge clubs don't bother bidding for our players.

I don't have a huge conviction on the player as I have only seen a handful of games but the fact he hasn't moved yet does not seem a fair criticism as its largely to do with loyalty on the players side.

 

[r-u-s-x]

It's precisely where our target area is.

We are aiming for players who, by the time they are ready for the first team, will be £100m-200m players. That's how a team in the top three of the Premier League improves.

Kane and Ali were not top players when they started playing in the first team, they developed into them. I would love to be going for players at their level for our signings but we cant afford the £100M fees.

 

[r-u-s-x]

The level a player is at measured against their age is one of the strongest indicators of their ceiling. There are obviously outliers, and that was what I was asking.

If we are to believe Grealish is an outlier, and that his ceiling is high enough for a club with our ambitions, what are the reasons for him being an outlier?

Kane and Ali were the outliers - Grealish is the norm and we think we can improve him

 

[harr1984]

Question for those that like Grealish as a player; what is it that has delayed his development so much (by modern standards, anyway)?

He'll be 23 at the start of the season. Compare that to our younger players - Kane, Alli, Dier - they were all well ahead of his development by that stage. Winks and Sanchez are significantly further on and are younger.

Is Grealish just a really late developer? Does he have persistent injury problems? Or is there some kind of problem in the transfer market that means players good enough for the 2nd/3rd best team in the toughest league in the world are somehow wasting their careers in the Championship?

How about having some decent coaching for a change? And he’s a Brummie boy and learnt his trade there and matured as a person there too now, perfect time for him to move on....

 

[harr1984]

It's precisely where our target area is.

We are aiming for players who, by the time they are ready for the first team, will be £100m-200m players. That's how a team in the top three of the Premier League improves.

Yeah I’m sure you knew exactly what Dele was going to be worth in a couple of years time when we signed him. People on here are so obsessed on categorising everyone instead of judging each case on its merits. Grealish is young, English, athletic and talented - Actually takes risks and more often than not they come off - and he’d only get better playing here....

 

[Grays_1890]

Yeah I’m sure you knew exactly what Dele was going to be worth in a couple of years time when we signed him. People on here are so obsessed on categorising everyone instead of judging each case on its merits. Grealish is young, English, athletic and talented - Actually takes risks and more often than not they come off - and he’s only get better playing here....

Exactly and he has that horrible streak that I like in a player, most top top players have it.

Someone mentioned earlier about his progress and was he not dropped for a while due to something happening in pre season or off the field fight? Spent months "in the cold" but the Championship seems to have moulded him, grown up loads and the run in on the play offs will have helped him mature.

 

[scaramanga]

Kane and Ali were not top players when they started playing in the first team, they developed into them. I would love to be going for players at their level for our signings but we cant afford the £100M fees.

Kane and Ali were the outliers - Grealish is the norm and we think we can improve him

Kane, Alli, Eriksen, etc are the level of players we need to improve though. Whether we buy them on the way up or ready-made, that's the quality we need them to be at. Will Grealish ever make that level? I think if he were at the level he's at now at the age of 19-20 then we could say there's a good chance. To be 23 and only to have stood out in a very low quality league is a problem for me.

If the price is low enough to reflect those concerns, then I don't have an issue.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Kane, Alli, Eriksen, etc are the level of players we need to improve though. Whether we buy them on the way up or ready-made, that's the quality we need them to be at. Will Grealish ever make that level?

Does he really NEED to be world class to be worth us buying?

Right now Id happily just have him instead of Sissoko.

We need to improve the squad, not necessarily the first team. I would suggest that he does that immediately, and then from there lets see what we can get out of him.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Kane, Alli, Eriksen, etc are the level of players we need to improve though. Whether we buy them on the way up or ready-made, that's the quality we need them to be at. Will Grealish ever make that level? I think if he were at the level he's at now at the age of 19-20 then we could say there's a good chance. To be 23 and only to have stood out in a very low quality league is a problem for me.

If the price is low enough to reflect those concerns, then I don't have an issue.

If we get him our Management also have the same goals so I would say they think he will make the level, I am not a good judge but I see enough in him to be hopeful. He stood out in games when in the PL but he didn't have consistency. I don't know what's a reasonable price anymore for a young (he is still young) player who is playing at a decent level and has potential. Last year was the first where he has consistently been played at CM so perhaps like Dembele / Pirlo )yes is did it) the change in position to a more deep position is what elevates him at a later age.

We could probably get Suso (if we think Greilish is an AM) for a similar fee, think he is homegrown. The downside there is he looks loads better in Italy than England, is that due to game time and improving or the pace of the game.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

If we get him our Management also have the same goals so I would say they think he will make the level, I am not a good judge but I see enough in him to be hopeful. He stood out in games when in the PL but he didn't have consistency. I don't know what's a reasonable price anymore for a young (he is still young) player who is playing at a decent level and has potential.

We could probably get Suso (if we think Greilish is an AM) for a similar fee, think he is homegrown. The downside there is he looks loads better in Italy than England, is that due to game time and improving or the pace of the game.

Grealish was absolutely an AM in the PL, last season not so much. I dont agree with @harr1984 that he is a CM, more IMO like an AM/#10 kind of hybrid. Villa played 2 sitting and then Grealish ahead of them trying to make things happen.

In our squad Id think of him covering/competing with Alli/Eriksen I guess, in that in-between CM and Attack kind of position they often take.

 

[harr1984]

Does he really NEED to be world class to be worth us buying?

Right now Id happily just have him instead of Sissoko.

We need to improve the squad, not necessarily the first team. I would suggest that he does that immediately, and then from there lets see what we can get out of him.

I can accept with our budget it’s hard to improve our first XI. So the next best thing is to improve the quality of our squad because our first Teamer’s play so many games if fit because the backups aren’t good enough. So better quality squad players will mean the first Teamer’s can be rested more because can trust the quality of the likes of Grealish and Zaha (even though I think both would prove to be better than simply squad players) which in turn will improve our first Teamer’s because they won’t be so burnt out as can be rotated better....

 

[harr1984]

Grealish was absolutely an AM in the PL, last season not so much. I dont agree with @harr1984 that he is a CM, more IMO like an AM/#10 kind of hybrid. Villa played 2 sitting and then Grealish ahead of them trying to make things happen.

In our squad Id think of him covering/competing with Alli/Eriksen I guess, in that in-between CM and Attack kind of position they often take.

Fair play, well whatever his position we can hopefully agree he is found all over the pitch, as you can see from that YouTube clip a lot of his work is done from deeper than AM position.....

 

[Benny_Lad]

It's precisely where our target area is.

We are aiming for players who, by the time they are ready for the first team, will be £100m-200m players. That's how a team in the top three of the Premier League improves.

Oh you mean to eventually be that level? So Grealish could be that - just a little further down the line.

 

[scaramanga]

Oh you mean to eventually be that level? So Grealish could be that - just a little further down the line.

He could. His age suggests it's less likely than normal though. Hence my questions about why he's such a late developer by modern standards.

 

[Ade's folks are ok really]

Grealish was absolutely an AM in the PL, last season not so much. I dont agree with @harr1984 that he is a CM, more IMO like an AM/#10 kind of hybrid. Villa played 2 sitting and then Grealish ahead of them trying to make things happen.

In our squad Id think of him covering/competing with Alli/Eriksen I guess, in that in-between CM and Attack kind of position they often take.

I'd rather see Grealish picking the ball up deep / own area and bringing it forward than Alli. Bar one or two games last season, when Alli was asked to play in the two midfield I thought he was largely very wasted there. Not to mention the impact it had on the partnership with Kane.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

He could. His age suggests it's less likely than normal though. Hence my questions about why he's such a late developer by modern standards.

All about opportunity, isnt it?

From what he has said I think his promotion to the team came as something of a surprise, and he clearly wasnt prepared.

Thought he could go out on holiday and be a taco etc and it would be no big deal, the whole furore surrounding it was a sharp wake up call.

Then, of course, look at the unsettled nature of the team (and club) around him the whole time and the absolute monkeys they have had managing.

Bruce is the best he has had, by a long distance.

He also had a pretty nasty injury that left him out for 7 months (I think, major kidney damage).

Where, through all that, has he had the time to learn, develop, and grow in a sustainable way?

This last season has been the only one where he has been played consistently, in a single position, in a settled team. And by all accounts he has done very well for it.

I am far from his biggest advocate, not a fanboy or any of it, but I do think he has a lot of talent and potential, and I do think there is a fairly valid set of circumstances as to how or why he hasnt yet peaked.

 

[scaramanga]

All about opportunity, isnt it?

From what he has said I think his promotion to the team came as something of a surprise, and he clearly wasnt prepared.

Thought he could go out on holiday and be a taco etc and it would be no big deal, the whole furore surrounding it was a sharp wake up call.

Then, of course, look at the unsettled nature of the team (and club) around him the whole time and the absolute monkeys they have had managing.

Bruce is the best he has had, by a long distance.

He also had a pretty nasty injury that left him out for 7 months (I think, major kidney damage).

Where, through all that, has he had the time to learn, develop, and grow in a sustainable way?

This last season has been the only one where he has been played consistently, in a single position, in a settled team. And by all accounts he has done very well for it.

I am far from his biggest advocate, not a fanboy or any of it, but I do think he has a lot of talent and potential, and I do think there is a fairly valid set of circumstances as to how or why he hasnt yet peaked.

Certainly sounds feasible.

If he's a "£15M is nothing but pocket change nowadays" punt for the future then I don't have an issue. Much like a lot of our other reported targets this window, I think anyone expecting him to improve the first team any time soon is in for disappointment.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I'd rather see Grealish picking the ball up deep / own area and bringing it forward than Alli. Bar one or two games last season, when Alli was asked to play in the two midfield I thought he was largely very wasted there. Not to mention the impact it had on the partnership with Kane.

Im a big fan of Alli in CM, but it seems to be one of those divisive things with him there - a lot of people dont "see" it.

Though I can certainly appreciate not wanting him further away from Kane.

 

[Legohamster]

Apparently it’s done according to some on twitter.

Take with a ton of salt

 

[nayenezgani]

Fair play, well whatever his position we can hopefully agree he is found all over the pitch, as you can see from that YouTube clip a lot of his work is done from deeper than AM position.....

Kovacic or Grealish, who do you sign?

I personally hope we're pushing hard for Kovacic and Grealish is our emergency last ditch option..