Glasgow Rangers

[jts1882]

That is my thinking. The lower leagues benefit from increased gates etc and the top division gets to stop the duopoly that held them back all this time.

But I'm sure they'll find a way to miss the opportunity.

When you think that in the 80s Aberdeen were able to break the duopoly and win a European trophy, while Scotland were producing players like Dalglish, Souness and Hansen. For years we have been able to get great players from Scotland, from Cameron and the Steel brothers, to Brown, White and Mackay, and to Gilzean and Archibald. Now they can't get a single player in a Team GB and Darren Fletcher is their biggest name playing in England. While there might be many factors, I can help feel the organisation of Scottish football for the benefit of two clubs is one of them.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Again, I agree. I would hope if the SPL clubs can force a fairer slice of the pot they will be able to re-develop their operations and start producing players again, start competing again and work toward levelling the playing field.

With Rangers and Celtic hogging all the cash adn the kudos, they can also hog (and waste) all the talent. Not any more!

 

[chancer]

The Brechin numbers are typical of the Third Division clubs, home gates of 400-600, so a couple of Rangers home games would normally have a bigger attendance that the division's entire season gate, iirc. A bonus for the Third Division clubs this year, then presumably the Second Division club next year, etc. Not a bad outcome all round. The losers are the SPL clubs that voted Rangers out and then tried to bully the SFL clubs to make it easy for Rangers to get back.

The biggest opportunity for Scottish football is reorganisation without the Old Firm veto on changes. They should be able to negotiate a more balanced TV contract, instead of giving so much more to the top two. Rangers and Celtic will keep their big support advantage but building in an additional advantage in TV money distribution can't be good for the competition. However with the head of the SFA colluding with the SPL and Rangers to make changes, I'm not too hopeful.

But I'm sure they'll find a way to miss the opportunity.

When you think that in the 80s Aberdeen were able to break the duopoly and win a European trophy, while Scotland were producing players like Dalglish, Souness and Hansen. For years we have been able to get great players from Scotland, from Cameron and the Steel brothers, to Brown, White and Mackay, and to Gilzean and Archibald. Now they can't get a single player in a Team GB and Darren Fletcher is their biggest name playing in England. While there might be many factors, I can help feel the organisation of Scottish football for the benefit of two clubs is one of them.

Interesting points.

One rather striking thought is that Scotland is a country of 5.2m people and they have 42 league clubs!! I've been trying to find out how many are professional - or to what degree they are "professional" - but can't find a definite answer anywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_Scotland

The Scottish Football League resides below the SPL, and consists of three divisions, each containing 10 teams....Queen's Park, uniquely, is the only true amateur (players are not paid) member of the League still standing|

But I don't think that means they are all professional. I would presume a large number of SFL players are on part-time/seasonal contracts? Although I notice 3rd Div. Clyde on Wiki are listed as "professional":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clyde_F.C.

Hard to know what all that means really, but one way or the other 42 seems like a bonkers, bonkers number of league clubs for a population that size.

 

[Jordinho]

They need to implement relegation from the third division as a start. Maybe start the pyramid at a higher level than they currently do, like dividing the third division into regional divisions.

 

[jts1882]

One rather striking thought is that Scotland is a country of 5.2m people and they have 42 league clubs!! I've been trying to find out how many are professional - or to what degree they are "professional" - but can't find a definite answer anywhere.

The behaviour of Rangers suggest not many!

We shouldn't compare their 42 with the 92 in the PL and FL. Many Conference clubs are fully professional and I think clubs with a gate of 500 go down quite a few tiers in England.

I think their big problem is having four divisions with 42 clubs. 12, 10, 10 and 10 is stupid. A top division of 18 clubs and one of 24, which may or may not be fully professional, makes much more sense. Except when you factor in the OF dominance. The structure is geared to providing Sky with four or more OF games and that skews the whole system in Scotland.

 

[Jordinho]

The behaviour of Rangers suggest not many!

We shouldn't compare their 42 with the 92 in the PL and FL. Many Conference clubs are fully professional and I think clubs with a gate of 500 go down quite a few tiers in England.

I think their big problem is having four divisions with 42 clubs. 12, 10, 10 and 10 is stupid. A top division of 18 clubs and one of 24, which may or may not be fully professional, makes much more sense. Except when you factor in the OF dominance. The structure is geared to providing Sky with four or more OF games and that skews the whole system in Scotland.

They shouldn't have more than 14-16 clubs in any division. There just not enough quality. 10 or 12 makes sense as you can play each other 4 times.

 

[firefly]

I think their big problem is having four divisions with 42 clubs. 12, 10, 10 and 10 is stupid. A top division of 18 clubs and one of 24, which may or may not be fully professional, makes much more sense. Except when you factor in the OF dominance. The structure is geared to providing Sky with four or more OF games and that skews the whole system in Scotland.

I don't think it is just Sky and the Old Firm who prefer a small Premier League. Even the likes of Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen are probably more in favour of two home games against each other and the old firm clubs then playing Hamilton, Livingstone or Partick Thistle.

A quadruple round-robin in a 10 team league works quite well in Switzerland. The Danish top division has 12 teams and plays a triple round-robin. It doesn't seem to be a problem there. So it doesn't seem to be the size of the divisions that is wrong in Scottish football.

 

[Jordinho]

The SFA have demanded that Charles Green back up his ‘bigotry’ outburst with hard evidence — or face a first disciplinary rap from the Hampden powers.

As the SFL shot down talk of Rangers making a double-quick return to the top flight, it was confirmed that Green has been written to by SFA compliance officer Vincent Lunny.

The Rangers chief executive has until August 7 to explain his comments, made on Sunday, in which he lashed out at rival clubs for relegating the newco club to the Third Division.

‘Some of it has been driven by bigotry, some of it has been driven by jealousy and some of it has been driven by all the wrong motives,’ said Green.

The SFA’s independent judicial panel will consider any explanation from Green for his outburst — and it has been stressed that, if he provides evidence to support his claims, they will classify him as a ‘whistleblower’ and launch an investigation.

Failure to provide an adequate response, however, will lead to an official censure for Green — and a scale of punishments, including another fine for Rangers, who have yet to be granted their full SFA licence.

Manager Ally McCoist could also be hammered by Lunny for his earlier attack on the judicial panel responsible for imposing a transfer embargo on Rangers, with the SFA making it clear that this case will be considered once all other outstanding issues have been settled.

Celtic were one of the few clubs to respond to Green’s outburst — by declaring it ‘not worthy of any response from Celtic Football Club’.

A spokesman added: ‘We presume the matter would now be one for the SFA and the SFL to deal with.’

SFL chief executive David Longmuir refused to answer questions on the subject yesterday, although he did weigh into the debate about how long Rangers might have to spend in exile from the top flight.

Green and chairman Malcolm Murray both spoke at the weekend about the prospect of a financially-crippled top flight being forced into reconstruction — and begging the Ibrox side to return to the fold.

But Longmuir, who travelled to Brechin for Rangers’ first outing in the Ramsdens Cup on Sunday, believes that the newco club could take even longer than the minimum three years to play their way back to the top.
Addressing reconstruction claims, he said: ‘I would find that difficult to foresee under present circumstances.

‘And I think they could be with us a lot longer than three years, judging by what I saw at Brechin.

‘They’ll need to make sure they’re up to the challenge our clubs are going to set them. On the park, it’s not just going to be a waltz through the leagues.

‘You have to be realistic. They have a superb squad, even depleted as they are at the moment. It’ll be a great challenge for our clubs to step up to the plate and see how they compete.

‘The young boys I saw yesterday in the Rangers squad are going to need to find their feet really quickly, because they’re going to be up against seasoned pros who’ve been working their way through Scottish football from the lower ranks up.

‘I’m looking forward to seeing Rangers develop as a new team throughout the three years they will be with us.

‘And I’m looking forward to the challenges that lie ahead for our own clubs in having such a big name in our leagues.

‘If everything goes the way it went at Brechin, Rangers will be welcomed warmly both on and off the field — because I thought Brechin gave a great account of themselves.

‘I don’t think Rangers will have it as much their own way as some people expect them to.

‘The young Scottish talent we have in our league will be allowed to flourish and will be showcased by the interest there will be in our competition.

‘We have some hidden gems in the Scottish League and having such a big brand in the league will give them the chance to flourish.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2181332/Rangers-crisis-Charles-Green-explain-bigotry-comment.html

 

[jts1882]

I don't think it is just Sky and the Old Firm who prefer a small Premier League. Even the likes of Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen are probably more in favour of two home games against each other and the old firm clubs then playing Hamilton, Livingstone or Partick Thistle.

A quadruple round-robin in a 10 team league works quite well in Switzerland. The Danish top division has 12 teams and plays a triple round-robin. It doesn't seem to be a problem there. So it doesn't seem to be the size of the divisions that is wrong in Scottish football.

I can see why it works for the bigger clubs and is preferred by the TV companies. But I wonder if its not a chicken and egg problem. The imbalance between a few top clubs and the rest provides the driving force for a small leagye, but the small league helps create the imbalance. If everything is geared to a system with a few big clubs it tends to exacerbate the imbalance in the system.

With a bigger league, more clubs get a share of the TV revenues, more clubs get a share of the bigger travelling support (it would work even better with sharing of home gates like they used to), and more clubs are secure from relegation each season and can plan long-term. So the weaker clubs are strengthened and the bigger clubs weakened. The same factors tend to promote imbalance in smaller leagues. How does it work in Switzerland and Denmark? Do they have a one or two big clubs or competitive balance?

The Scottish league used to be a lot stronger when it was larger. Aberdeen and one of the Dundees won the title at a time they were producing quality players. I realise that things were different then, with little reliance on TV money and sharing of home gates. But Scottish football was healthy. Since then all the changes have skewed the system in favour of the Old Firm and no one will argue that Scottish football is in a good state.

 

[Jordinho]

Sky reveals new SPL TV deal for five years

Broadcaster Sky Sports has confirmed it has reached agreement with the Scottish Premier League to continue its coverage of Scottish football for at least another five years.

Five live Rangers fixtures in Division Three are included in the deal along with 30 from the top flight.

There had been fears that a TV deal might disappear as a result of Rangers dropping out of the SPL.

But no figures have yet been released about the value of the new deal.

The SPL had agreed a TV deal worth £80m over five years with Sky and fellow broadcaster ESPN before the old Rangers slipped towards liquidation.

And SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster and Scottish FA counterpart Stewart Regan had both warned of dire financial consequences should the new club not start life in Division One.

Negotiations that followed Rangers being voted into Division Three by the Scottish Football League clubs have produced a new deal, with coverage beginning with Celtic at home to Aberdeen on Saturday, with a kick-off time of 12:45 having already been announced to suit television coverage.

Rangers' first game in the Third Division, away to Peterhead on 11 August at 12:45, will also be broadcast live.

The new deal is subject to ratification by the SPL clubs on Friday.

Barney Francis, managing director of Sky Sports, said: "We've supported Scottish football since we started, over 20 years ago, and have always wanted to continue that commitment.

"Our viewers will see the SPL for five more years and our schedule includes the opening league match for Celtic.

"We will also follow Rangers as they plot their way back to Scottish football's top flight.

"Clubs now have certainty over their income and exposure across the UK and Ireland and we look forward to the new season."

Meanwhile, the SFL has rearranged the Ramsdens Cup second-round tie between Rangers and Falkirk for Tuesday 21 August, with a 19:45 kick-off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19070877

 

[Irontoe]

Celtic were one of the few clubs to respond to Green’s outburst — by declaring it ‘not worthy of any response from Celtic

So their response is to respond by saying they are not going to respond?

 

[Jordinho]

Following Sky's deal to show 30 SPL matches and 5 Rangers matches, ESPN have announced they'll show 30 SPL matches and 10 Rangers matches.

 

[firefly]

38'000 at Ibrox last night. That was a first round match in the Scottish League Cup. That's remarkable. Two years ago there were just 23'000 in the third round of that cup when Rangers played Dunfermline.
It seems that Rangers supporters are grateful for now for every game their team pays.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

All 12 clubs of the SPL have unanimously agreed on plans to restructure the top flight of Scottish football.

Last month, the Scottish Premier League decided to seek the expansion of their membership, with a proposal to split the two leagues into three divisions of eight after 22 games.

After Monday's three-hour meeting at Hampden, SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster revealed there had been full support for a new "24-18" team model.

This would involve the top flight divided into two divisions of 12 teams. The '18' refers to the remaining Scottish Football League clubs not included in the top leagues.

Doncaster told Sky Sports: "I'm delighted to say that we have unanimous agreement in principle from the 12 SPL member clubs to the 24-18 team model.

"We are looking forward to sitting down with the Scottish Football League and the Scottish FA to talk about the details.

"What we aim to have is a consensus model that cares for all of Scottish football and that's got to be the objective going forward."

These proposals will now be discussed with the SFA and SFL on Thursday.

The SFL's 30 clubs have previously voted in favour of three leagues, comprising of 16, 10 and 16. The SPL has spoken informally to SFL clubs and it is felt there is sufficient support for the changes.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11781/8307002/SPL-clubs-agree-to-plans-for-restructuring-the-top-flight-of-Scottish-football

 

[jts1882]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

16-10-16

WTF

It should be obvious that that division is artificial and perverse. Only a committee of politicians could propose that.

 

[Park Lane James]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

My dad text me randomly earlier asking if I wanna go and see a Rangers match in the new year. 'I was reading Gazza's autobiography and thought we should go up and watch a match' - may as well!

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

Rangers chief executive Charles Green believes the club should attempt to quit Scottish football if league reconstruction plans are approved.

The Scottish Premier League and the Scottish Football League have agreed in principle to a restructuring plan that would see the organisations merge in a 12-12-18 structure.

If the new format was rubber-stamped for next season, Irn-Bru Third Division leaders Rangers would remain in the bottom tier of Scottish football regardless of any title success this term, albeit with the potential time frame for a return to the top-flight remaining the same.

Green told RangersTV: "I haven't read anything other than what is in the press and if that is what we have sat here eagerly awaiting to transform Scottish football, my advice to the board of Rangers is the quicker we can leave Scottish football the better.

"I can't see anything that is going to transform the finances, the status or the excitement."

www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/8387777/Green-in-Rangers-quit-threat

You're a Scottish club. Based in Scotland. With (mostly) Scottish fans. You're supposed to be playing in the Scottish league. Yes, Scotland doesn't have a huge population, but them's the breaks. Now suck it up and make the best of it.

 

[Cal_Yido]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

What a mess it really is. Speaking to my Dad's side of the family who are all big Rangers fans they think the relationship between Rangers and the Scottish Football League is irreparable. Today just confirms that really. Maybe being biased I can see why they are complaining, because this change is being pushed for the start of next season all of a sudden with Rangers not being involved in the talks. This change means they will remain in the bottom tier, despite (most probably) winning the 3rd division

 

[markysimmo]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

If they quit Scotland where are they going to play, they can fudge off if they think they are coming to play in England

 

[Jordinho]

Re: O/T - Glasgow Rangers go into adminstration

It doesn't change anything from Ranger's POV really. They're merging the two bottom tiers and promoting a couple of extra teams into the top two tiers. Wouldn't surprise me to see Rangers demand a bye into the second tier.